Boatmad Winter Project.

[Jon]

OK,

So assuming you were Homosexual and wanted to make the ultimate anal sex probe.

What type of motor would you use to make the vibrations?

[Tony Davis]

Toyota V8

[Jon]

Which model?

More details please TD

[Jono]

Steyr 256?:hugegrin:

[Tony Davis]

Dunno which model it is, but Toyota released it as a tournament boat motor a couple of years ago, so I'd imagine it's around 330hp ish.

[Tony Davis]

Originally posted by Jono
Steyr 256?:hugegrin:

That would be a nice motor for a rib!:D Cougar have recently fitted one, don't know if they've broken it yet!:hugegrin:

[Jon]

OK,

But is 300hp going to be enough to satisfy you guys?

[Captain Chaos]

are we wanting to go stupidly fast?

[Jon]

Fuller, Matt,

Is it possible to put a vote on this web to decide the overall requirements for this project?

[Carl]

yep

[Captain Chaos]

I just think its so nice that boatmad has found us a ll a sugar daddy who's prepared to finance a big toy for us all to take our rubber mallets to!

R-Don.......your a top fella!

[Jon]

Cap'n,

You must be joking, you aint cleared out my gutters yet!!!:laugh:

[Jon]

Thing is, thats been done.

Keep the package down to £15000.00 to make it more challenging.

[Jon Fuller]

For me the Toureg motor Matt spoke of would be nice, or the GM/Isuzu 6.6 Duramax V8, they're 300 hp in regular Automotive spec, so 400 + would be easy with the cooling available to a boat (for intercooling etc)

V8's would be nice coz they're good n short

6.6 Duramax/Konrad or Trimax drive

P33

[Admiral P. Brain]

Think you should target a 23-26ft single engine.
Capable of water ski-ing, 2 berth, and fun to drive up to 65mph with 5 mates on board, beers and all the clobber....

you could benchmark the windy 25 (described as best in class)
think that retails for 70k with a kad 300.

[Captain Chaos]

I've touched on this before, but would twin rotaries be any good.

I'd assume there would have to be a dramatic reduction in rpm in some sort of pre-drive gearbox....

but those can give amazing hp!

and they're small

[Captain Chaos]

JF...nice avatar

they look surprisingly good in weenie!

[Jon]

I think they have potential and should not be dismissed as an option.

[Tony Davis]

Originally posted by Matt
What about a diesel wankel?

Hey JF, I think he's talking to you!!:D

[Jon]

Whats available in the form of variable transmission, like ford used in the fiesta.

[Jon]

Has anyone used a Boxer engine in a boat?

[Jon]

How about an inverted hydraspa pad on the rear of the hull pumping air instead of water. bit like an upside down air hockey table.

[Jon]

to reduce surface drag

[Jon]

OK,

If you have a surface such as the hull planing over the surface of water, friction will increase along with speed.

So what designers have been trying to do for years is to unstick the hull and thus reduce friction, hence the stepped hull. However this caused a lot of headaches as the moulding process becomes more difficult with stepped hulls.

So if you take a conventional Deep V hull and pump air out through the hull and onto the waters surface you will disturb the water stiction and release the grip the water has on the hull by a significant amount and thus unsticking the hull from the friction and enabling higher cruise and top speeds for a lesser amount of fuel.

Comprende?

[Jon]

Alternatively,

You could alter the characteristics of the rear of the boat to be like a hovercraft.

[Ben]

Originally posted by R-Don
Has anyone used a Boxer engine in a boat?


Eduardo Polli ran a Class I boat in the early 90s with four Subaru boxer engines. If memory serves, they were each 12 cylinders and turbocharged.

I don't believe he ever finished a race.

[Jon]

right,

So why didnt he ever finish a race with that set up?

Engines? Drives?

[Jon Fuller]

Originally posted by R-Don
Has anyone used a Boxer engine in a boat?
Edwardo Poli had four subaru flat summit or other turbos in his class one cat SDA which usually ran very quick for half a lap or so.

EDIT: sorry ned, just saw your post, didn't mean to repeat:dizzy:

[Admiral P. Brain]

has to have a bullet proof drive.... so no bravo style drive systems

[Jon Fuller]

I wanna move the goalposts!

[Jon Fuller]

The Konrad (spelt it wrong last time)


http://www.konradmarine.com/540_1.html

This is not really a 'Bravo style' drive, but is as close to a domestic drive as you can get without stepping into the race bred stuff.

[Ben]

Originally posted by R-Don
right,

So why didnt he ever finish a race with that set up?

Engines? Drives?

Engines, drives and gearboxes etc. The whole thing was far too complicated and one piece or another always let go.

[Jon Fuller]

Originally posted by Captain Chaos
JF...nice avatar

they look surprisingly good in weenie!

I reckon that considering they were taken on a pocket camera (by a nob) they look pretty good 'big'!

[Jon]

Flamin heck,

Switch to runnin smokeless coal will ya you tight wad.:drain:

[Jon Fuller]

:confused:

[Jon]

:D

[Jon Fuller]

:drain:

Don't tell greenpeace

I'm not in your league when it comes to budget for 'fuel costs', so I gotta stick with the stinkboat motors :violin:

[Jon]

Its not a matter of fuel costs,

More the fact that you come down to my Manor and pollute the Fkin air. :drain:

[Jon]

I rekon you were in front of my Gaff when that picture was taken.

I shoulda been on duty wiv me clip board takin down notes an at.

Ill get them bloody stinkpots band in the solent before long you see if i dont.:laugh:

[Captain Chaos]

Try being in its wake when those big bazturds are cranked up!

[Jon]

I guess thats how you got the black band around your face then?

Spendin too much time up Mr. fullers rear.

[Carl]

i didnt see that one coming,round 2 then..................calm down boys

[Jon]

Originally posted by carly baby
i didnt see that one coming,round 2 then..................calm down boys

:drain:

I gotta admit that even by my standards that was funny.

Did your glasses clean up ok Cap'n?

[Ben]

Originally posted by R-Don
I rekon you were in front of my Gaff when that picture was taken.

I shoulda been on duty wiv me clip board takin down notes an at.

Ill get them bloody stinkpots band in the solent before long you see if i dont.:laugh:

Don't believe I've heard of the 'Bloody Stinkpots Band'. They any good?

[Admiral P. Brain]

bet i could break a konrad with a 400hp diesel...

though basic arneson or equivalent (theres a few out there) were not that much more than bravo certainly know more than knorad or imco/b max...

think the budgets got be cheaper than bench mark production
ie windy 25
formula /donzi 28

[Jon Fuller]

Originally posted by Matt
Bet they play their own yamaha trumpets!

"Allan Priddy & the Stinkpots" :lol:lol:

[Jon Fuller]

Originally posted by Admiral P. Brain
bet i could break a konrad with a 400hp diesel...


That's not actually much of a qualification!

The 540 Konrad is claimed to be far superior to the TRS drive (comparable in it's concept) and way, way, stronger than a stock bravo.

We're only talking about 75 horse more than mine, and I've had no trouble so far with stock, non 'X' bravos, and have covered getting on for 3000 miles now. If the Konrad is half as good as it's cracked up to be, a 400+ hp diesel @ 4000 rpm ought to be fine (if driven properly)

I for one would try a 6.6 duramax on a Konrad, and would try it at 450hp if that were available.
Trouble is you'd really need it to be a V8, coz with the extra length of a straight 6, + the gearbox, you couldn't have a back seat.

The only other choice is the B-Max drive, which is still a shiftable sterndrive, so gives more room for the motor.

[Carl]

yeah thats what i was going to say.....well put

[Jon Fuller]

Originally posted by carly baby
yeah thats what i was going to say.....well put

Which bit?

[Carl]

the "if driven properly bit"................so that rules me out

[Jon Fuller]

Yeah, people do seem to miss the point about keeping stuff together whilst going faster than anyone else.

If everyone did a bit of racing they'd learn it's cool to finish (with all the kit intact) rather than bragg in the bar about how they broke it coz they 'drove it so hard' :dizzy:

[Captain Chaos]

JF, did you catch the provee on sky tonight?........well i got to flick over every now & again (as me hoe inisted in watching "what not to wear"!...mind you, thats got some advantages...coz those 2 tarts are definite lezzas!)...sorry i digress!!

anyways, every time i hopped back...another retirement......tortoises & hares came to mind!

and the chine hoping some of those boats do! looks quite frightening.

[Jon Fuller]

Na, aint got Sky :cry:

[Captain Chaos]

i'm quite shocked! inspector gadget not got sky?

anyways, seems theres a couple of decent drivers in that series, one of'm is somemink oruva Niccoline........he always comes up trumps.

As i said before, it looks as if all the hulls are either cougars are Buzzis and most are Seateks, yet whilst most are blowing turbos.....some do well time after time.....Sort of the Schumacher approach!

they do wobble though.......my pecker aint big enough to want to go in one of them!

[Admiral P. Brain]

yes we treat RedMist drive with kidgloves.... no hard acceleration, ease back as soon as the turbo kicks in...
makes it hard when its rough and you catching air, but its tooo expensive to break!!

and thats my point.... a concept boat should be the next stage on from this type of drive.... a completely bullet proof propulsion system and a more efficent system than a bravo/konrad/bmax ..

this ponits towards surface drive propulsion for durability and efficiency.... i think there are a couple of choices here... whats the one yanmar have had at the boat shows on the 440hp??
i got some brochures once for 'pulse drives' ??

maybe if its got over 450hp diesel the length can up to 30ft, which would give enough room for length of engine/gearbox..
anyway i thought you could house the gearbox on the outside of the transom??

start thinking 'outside the box' !! little quote they drum in to us a jpmorgan !!

[Tony Davis]

You have have the Konrad with a stand off box, and have the gearbox inside it, but with this and a 400+hp diesel you've already blown around £35k, what sort of budget have we got??

[Admiral P. Brain]

benchmark other boats windy 25 donzi 28/30
so would say
25ft 70k
30ft 90k

would say targets are...

65mph +
6 seater
2 berth
excellent rough water capabilities...
safe long distance cruising...

[Carl]

that hunton maverick that was/is for sale at 20 grand still looks a good buy,apart from the fuel bill

[Jon Fuller]

Originally posted by Admiral P. Brain
yes we treat RedMist drive with kidgloves.... no hard acceleration, ease back as soon as the turbo kicks in...
makes it hard when its rough and you catching air, but its tooo expensive to break!!



Well I've never had to treat my (non 'X') drives quite like that, by 'driving properly', I mean making the best effort never to re-enter the water with the power wide open. As for accelaration and generally puting the power down, I don't give it a second thought, just throttle well when 'flying it'.

The Konrad/B-max should take anything you could throw at them from a 450 diesel. They run 1200 hp petrol motors through the B-max! it's a bit ugly tho'.

.......


'Thinking outside the box'

That's a bit 'Yesterday' innit! :lol:lol:


TD's right, the only trouble with this concept talk, for both Petrol and Diesel, is it will cost a bomb :cry:

[Admiral P. Brain]

thats true Jon, but we are just carefull after Maelstrom experience.... not just the money its missing 4 weeks of the summer waiting for it to get fixed!!

1200hp thru the b-max !!blimey!! lets see the results 2 years down the line...

hunton 20k with re-fitted diesels/drives.... how much would that cost??

[Atlantic Xpat]

Originally posted by Johnson
Na, aint got Sky :cry:

Wanna buy a digibox and shatellite dish then. I've got one going spare in the everyfing must go emmigration sale;)

[Jon Fuller]

Originally posted by Admiral P. Brain
1200hp thru the b-max !!blimey!! lets see the results 2 years down the line...

They've been doing it for years, they drag race the HTM 24 with 1400 hp on a B-max, and get very surprising quarter mile times.

[Jon Fuller]

Originally posted by Matt
Buzzi's are ugly.

Wash your mouth out with soap! :angry: :wank:

[Jon Fuller]

Originally posted by Essex Navee
Wanna buy a digibox and shatellite dish then. I've got one going spare in the everyfing must go emmigration sale;)

To be honest, I watch very little television, and that's the reason I don't have SKY, or equivalent.

Where you off to then Mr Essex?

[Jon Fuller]

:D

[Rockey]

while i was away in s of france w/end there's a new drive from volvo on the way which will be very efficent and handle lots of hp
will be at london boat show on display. but noy sure what it is?
anyone no anymore about it

[Jon]

How about this,

Yep, its a 2005 SX230 High output ski/Wakeboard boat by those clever little Japs.

Specs:

Engines: 2 4 cylinder four stroke 1000cc EFI motors with dry sump and variable valve timing.

Total combined power 320hp!!!!!

Boat is 23 foot long 8 foot wide and has a dry weight of 1300KGS!!!

Has capacity for 10 people, comes with remote control stereo, bimini, intergrated ice box & trailer.

How much you ask?

£15000.00 :) Yep 15 grand.

Lets hope they bring out a cuddy version with cocktail lounge.

[Jon]

Yep.

[Tony Davis]

Originally posted by R-Don

£15000.00

You selling the formula?

[Jon]

Yes, i hear what your sayin, but then they aint in the same price bracket are they.

However, what they have produced is a good spec'd day boat at very good value for money. :up:

[Jon]

This is what i want. . . .

[Jon Fuller]

wot is it?

[Jon]

its a blown V12 Marine engine putting out 1000hp.

[Captain Chaos]

its an engine Jon

[Taz]

That looks like a 4 pot engine maybe ford cosworth with some werid inlet manifolds

[Jon]

How about this then..

600CID weighing 500lbs

[Jon]

Any ideas on whos engines these are?

[Ben]

Interesting boat. Any idea of the performance?

Hope its quick cause Godzilla looks sort of pissed off.

[Jon]

:drain:

[Jon]

"OMC race tested some Rotary engines with an eye to production. In testing they were installed on 18 foot tunnel boats constructed by Glastron. Rev limit was as high as 14,000 rpm. Power was over 200 hp. Rumour has it that they could easily run at over 120 mph, and once made a straight-away pass at 165 mph".

[simon johnston]

Originally posted by Matt
I am sure I read a couple of years ago about a company developing a big power replacement for the supercharged big block. All alloy, huge displacement. Can't seem to find details of it now.... TORQUE V12's

[Ben]

Originally posted by Matt
I am sure I read a couple of years ago about a company developing a big power replacement for the supercharged big block. All alloy, huge displacement. Can't seem to find details of it now....

I've got the details somewhere.

Thanks alot. Now I'll have to go and dig it out.

[Ben]

Originally posted by simon johnston
TORQUE V12's

Thanks for that Simon, you just saved me hours pouring over old magazines

[Jon Fuller]

Out of production now, in fact I don't think they ever made it to true 'production'.

[Ben]

Originally posted by R-Don
"OMC race tested some Rotary engines with an eye to production. In testing they were installed on 18 foot tunnel boats constructed by Glastron. Rev limit was as high as 14,000 rpm. Power was over 200 hp. Rumour has it that they could easily run at over 120 mph, and once made a straight-away pass at 165 mph".

Oh no. I probably some pics somewhere. Will post them when I find them. Into the depths of the magazines once again.

[Ben]

Originally posted by Johnson
Out of production now, in fact I don't think they ever made it to true 'production'.

According to 'Powerboat' or 'Hot Boat' someone else is supposedly putting them into production.

[Jon Fuller]

Originally posted by R-Don
Any ideas on whos engines these are?

Go on then! and why aren't they available on a hydrodrive :D

[Jon]

Well,

There mine, thats whos engines they are. :drain:

[Ben]

Originally posted by Matt
Is it correct sterling have bought the tooling?

That sounds right.

[simon johnston]

Originally posted by R-Don
How about this,

Yep, its a 2005 SX230 High output ski/Wakeboard boat by those clever little Japs.

Specs:

Engines: 2 4 cylinder four stroke 1000cc EFI motors with dry sump and variable valve timing.

Total combined power 320hp!!!!!

Boat is 23 foot long 8 foot wide and has a dry weight of 1300KGS!!!

Has capacity for 10 people, comes with remote control stereo, bimini, intergrated ice box & trailer.

How much you ask?

£15000.00 :) Yep 15 grand.

Lets hope they bring out a cuddy version with cocktail lounge.

[simon johnston]

Originally posted by Matt
I must say old chap, that's a very high quality photograph there. its not a tiny piss pore photo....... it must be your eyes :D

[Jon]

Well ill put you out of your misery now,

Those engines are manufactured by Ryan Falconer and are built to order and supplied with Dyno Graphs.

[Jon Fuller]

Price?..power?..weight?

[Jon]

650 to 1500hp depending on your requirements. Weight 500lbs, Price lots.:cry:

[Jon Fuller]

Konrad

[catmando]

Originally posted by Matt
It'll be difficult to truly innovate cos almost everything has been tried before.

How about an ultra wide aeforoil winged aerodynamically stable cat that runs as a true surface effect ship that at max speed is fully airborne, with the exception of the drive running on the surface?

Hang on, I think that's been done too. :D
Sorry, I'll try and be a bit more serious.
One day.
www.hydrofoil.com

Not a cat, but an awesome machine nonetheless.

[catmando]

Originally posted by Matt
I am sure I read a couple of years ago about a company developing a big power replacement for the supercharged big block. All alloy, huge displacement. Can't seem to find details of it now....
Torque Marine has gone out of business. Dave Callan of Callan Marine and Mike D'Annibale of Sterling bought it out and are building those 860ci aluminium V12s now. Callan Marine has removed the 2500hp turbines on its Tencara raceboat and installed the Torques for a test platform.

Power is up from 1200 to 1350hp NA, with more hp to come. Torque had installed twin Vortech blowers making 1500hp, and Sterling may continue that motor.

Torque Marine built the motor with internal accessories that unbalanced it harmonically. Sterling will mount them outside with belts.

I don't know about price, but Torque was asking US$110,000 or so.

[catmando]

Originally posted by R-Don
OK,

If you have a surface such as the hull planing over the surface of water, friction will increase along with speed.

So what designers have been trying to do for years is to unstick the hull and thus reduce friction, hence the stepped hull. However this caused a lot of headaches as the moulding process becomes more difficult with stepped hulls.

So if you take a conventional Deep V hull and pump air out through the hull and onto the waters surface you will disturb the water stiction and release the grip the water has on the hull by a significant amount and thus unsticking the hull from the friction and enabling higher cruise and top speeds for a lesser amount of fuel.

Comprende?
Several Vhull builders here are ventilating their stepped hulls with NACA ducts connected to vents in the front of the steps. It works.

[TheOrs]

Originally posted by catmando
Several Vhull builders here are ventilating their stepped hulls with NACA ducts connected to vents in the front of the steps. It works.

I vaguely recall reading somewhere about someone experimenting with a dimpled hull (sort of like the surface of a golf ball) for the very same reason.

Actually, this may have been on a kneeboard, but perhaps the same principle would apply to a boat hull?

[jw.]

Originally posted by TheOrs
I vaguely recall reading somewhere about someone experimenting with a dimpled hull (sort of like the surface of a golf ball) ...

Feck drillin' 'oles, I'm gonna find me planishin' 'ammer.