Thunderbird in storage for 33 years

[Mike Bontoft]

http://i26.tinypic.com/2rcbudd.jpg

[Ciao]

Have you twisted Dean's arm to run it at the 50th next year? :hugegrin:

[Jon Fuller]

This 'Thunderbird'?

[Carl]

is that a planatec,amazing to think something that big can be in storage for 30 yrs

[Mike Bontoft]

The very same
http://i26.tinypic.com/10qxlxk.jpg

[Jon Fuller]

What motors? are they rebuildable?

[Carl]

is the seating one in the front 2 in the back

[Mike Bontoft]

I think a couple of SCI 750s would be the ticket. What do you say Dean?
Yes the driver steers and throttles. Mr Shead used to do it all the time.
http://i31.tinypic.com/20ae6i0.jpg

[Ciao]

I emailed those shots to TP - I have a feeling that he told me that he looked at the boat about 9 months before the RB.

If someone were to take it on as a project the thread called be called Planetec Project - could be interesting over the winter :rolleyes:

[Mike Bontoft]

I think a couple of weekends should whip this lot into shape.
http://i26.tinypic.com/syqc1y.jpg

[lain]

The very same
http://i26.tinypic.com/10qxlxk.jpg

Larby, I think you've found your air scoop:jaw:


Oh and who's the guy with the giant hand in the other picture? Makes the boat look tiny

[Jon Fuller]

Looks remarkably clean in that engine room.

[Carl]

it all looks very intact

[Mike Bontoft]

My wife and I met with Richard Benge on the the 25th Aug. and spent most of the day with him and his wife. We had lunch together and enjoyed listening to his old race stories. The price he is asking for this real piece of history is around 60,000 pounds.

[baj666]

My wife and I met with Richard Benge on the the 25th Aug. and spent most of the day with him and his wife. We had lunch together and enjoyed listening to his old race stories. The price he is asking for this real piece of history is around 60,000 pounds.

:jaw: how much would this need to have injected into it to bring it up to spec..looks like a fun project thou:)

[larby]

Wow! Not often you see a complete original classic like that! She's a beauty!

[lain]

The price he is asking for this real piece of history is around 60,000 pounds.

I guessed about 10-15 thou, I wonder which one of us is the optimist?

[Matt]

I bet you could get double 2 shirts for a lot less than 60K. :)

[Mike Bontoft]

You could always make one of these out of it.
http://i26.tinypic.com/2dw6uyt.jpg
and you gotta have this
http://i25.tinypic.com/25hll5u.jpg

[fullbore]

I bet you could get double 2 shirts for a lot less than 60K. :)

:hugegrin:

[Jim Brooker]

My wife and I met with Richard Benge on the the 25th Aug. and spent most of the day with him and his wife. We had lunch together and enjoyed listening to his old race stories. The price he is asking for this real piece of history is around 60,000 pounds.

Lets hope who ever buy's the lovely old girl, she get's rebuilt properly with a decent budget. !!!!

[FLYING FISH]

I think we would all like to see this back on the water,but the reality is you either purchase it for the hull only and put fairly stock engines in it,or you restore it as it once was,which means sorting that chain box out.Now that really is a one off piece of design made in the days when sponsorship paid for it,and the boat never really ran enough to sort the blessed thing out,the idea being it enabled the engines to be put side by side farther aft than normal for better weight distribution.No doubt it would be sold as a complete package,and that`s the dilemma.That air scoop was a la the Embassy F1 car design (Graham Hill team).At one point an ex-colin chapman employee designed it as an anvil type like the lotus 72 JPS F1 car,so he got a bollocking for that, being as it looked like a rival fag sponsors equipment!

[FLYING FISH]

I seem to remember,and TP could confirm ,that in that Needles race of 1974,when the pic was taken,TP had a bag of fishheads thrown at him from the Shambles LV,as he powered round it rather closely.The fisheads landed in the cockpit so the story goes.

[Jon Fuller]

Lets hope who ever buy's the lovely old girl, she get's rebuilt properly with a decent budget. !!!!

Ouch!

:)

[FLYING FISH]

Seconds away,Round 158.

I think the opponent has left the ring and gone to another venue!

[Jim Brooker]

Seconds away,Round 158.

I think the opponent has left the ring and gone to another venue!

Sorry I don't mean to have a go at any one, but people start out on these project's with out thinking through how much it's all going to cost, (this is a total rebuild), sit down with some one who knows what they are talking about and work it out . EASY. Then buy the boat.

[littlenige]

That answers my PM to you then Mike!

Now if my numbers come up this evening..................

[littlenige]

Sure would be great to see the boat on the water again in either livery! (included a slightly clearer copy of your pic graham).

[FLYING FISH]

OK,OK,put more sharpness back in and more work on the chine.I thought you would make a proper job of it Nige,taking notes from your book of `How to fudge the centre crease and still retain a flowing chine line`.

[baj666]

OK,OK,put more sharpness back in and more work on the chine.I thought you would make a proper job of it Nige,taking notes from your book of `How to fudge the centre crease and still retain a flowing chine line`.

ahh the good ole days when tobacco money was the biggest sponsers and powerboat racing was on mainstream tv:worthy: :worthy:

[littlenige]

I hope that the asking price will be realistic enough for the boat to be bought by someone and restored! It's sacrilegious to think of the boat lying there going to waste! OK I'm a dreamer, but I feel passionate about these things!

[Delta28]

"Rob Gray purchased the Planatec Uno Embassy, shipped it to the US so as Mike Bontoft could re rig her. She should be back in the UK @ Drivers fairly soon."

Posted by Ciao on 05-07-2010 Muster Area / Cowes 2010 update (# 249)


"Both Dry Martini and Uno Embassy are on the way to England after successful test sessions in the Columbia river."

Lohring Miller

(05-07-10 Post #250)

Just thought I'd point this out, as nobody has commented on it yet....

[Black_Tornado]

Delta28 your news are good sounds for my ears.
I hope that this 2010 Cowes edition will be a very great Offshore events.:up:

[Delta28]

Delta28 your news are good sounds for my ears.
I hope that this 2010 Cowes edition will be a very great Offshore events.:up:

Not so much my news... more Ciao's and Lohring Miller's. I'm just the messenger here!

I agree though, with news like this...it's looking good !!

That was my main reason for posting - to tempt people over here, to watch. Even better if these boats attract more racers out of retirement, or it encourages new ones.

It would be good to meet you, Marco... and perhaps it will tempt littlenige over here too. It could be quite a gathering...

[Black_Tornado]

Not so much my news... more Ciao's and Lohring Miller's. I'm just the messenger here!

I agree though, with news like this...it's looking good !!

That was my main reason for posting - to tempt people over here, to watch. Even better if these boats attract more racers out of retirement, or it encourages new ones.

It would be good to meet you, Marco... and perhaps it will tempt littlenige over here too. It could be quite a gathering...

I would like to meet you as Nigel and Graham but unfortunately I have to follow the events of Cowes as forty years ago ...
But things have improved!
There is internet and not have to wait a month to see some photos ...:worthy:

[littlenige]

Fear not Marco - my camera will be working overtime!

[Black_Tornado]

Fear not Marco - my camera will be working overtime!

I know Nigel! :cheers:
There will also the photographer of Cowes .... but not Beken....is Graham! :hugegrin:

BTW - One day will fulfill my dream of a lifetime .... pilgrimage to the Lotus Classic factory, see a fabulous 72 at Goodwood, visit the Imperial War Museum and see a Cowes Classic!:worthy:

[Delta28]

An old rival for Uno-Embassy:

http://boatmad.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15020&page=15

See post #284

...and Marco's favourite model of boat !

[FLYING FISH]

[QUOTE=Delta28;184857]An old rival for Uno-Embassy:





QUOTE]

And both rubbing gunwales together at Drivers.Ain`t nature wonderful!

[littlenige]

It just keeps getting better........

[Delta28]

"Dry Martini and Uno Embassy were delivered into Drivers today from the States."

"Mike Mantle has taken up the role of team manager and t-man for Uno Embassy with newcomer to the sport and owner of Uno Rob Gray on the wheel."

See: Muster Area / Cowes 2010 Update...

[littlenige]

I hope somebody at Drivers has a camera?

[Delta28]

I hope somebody at Drivers has a camera?

Just so happens...

Was down there today, on my way home from a short break at Cowes. Thought you might like to see what the two Mikes were up to... (testing, testing...)

You might spot Martin (The Talker) in there too...

Hope you guys don't mind me posting pictures of you - but there's a very excited crowd of people eagerly anticipating events!

[Delta28]

Appears to be working well... (but what do i know?!)

Tricky things, these highly-stressed race engines (and outdrives, hydraulic systems, etc., etc..) but we have every faith in your abilities... and we're all rooting for you and good luck anyway!

[littlenige]

Wow great pictures! Thanks!!!! The f1 scoop makes a return!

[Ciao]

I hooked up at Cowes yesterday with Mike's - The boat looked and sounded great running across the Solent!

Pic 1 A Levi on a Shead?

Pic 2 The luckiest 16 year old in Cowes - Harry get a lift back to Drivers in Uno!

[littlenige]

Colour me green!

[Black_Tornado]

I still can not believe that the boat was still there and untouched since 1975! Truly a unique and unrepeatable preservation of the time.
In all this with some regret I see that now, after restoration, the sticker of the CTC 1975(I supposed) has been removed!
Although in the picture you see that someone had clumsily tried to remove it destroying.
I understand that conflict with the version Uno-Embassy that ran the previous year.
However, I hope the rest has not been thrown in the trash!

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/9099/thunderbirdresiz.jpg (http://img130.imageshack.us/i/thunderbirdresiz.jpg/)
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/4972/thunderbird2009.jpg (http://img153.imageshack.us/i/thunderbird2009.jpg/)


http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/1480/unoembassy2010.jpg (http://img836.imageshack.us/i/unoembassy2010.jpg/)
http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/6412/unoembassy20etcresiz.jpg (http://img198.imageshack.us/i/unoembassy20etcresiz.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[Ciao]

The deck has the 1976 CTC sticker - Bearing in mind Mike Bontoft re rigged the hull - You will understand the significance.

[FLYING FISH]

I
Pic 1 A Levi on a Shead?



and now a Beard (albeit James Beard`s brother,Mike) and Don Shead in a class III levi.(Southend 1966).It was the first class III race for Don.

[Jon Fuller]

and now a Beard (albeit James Beard`s brother,Mike) and Don Shead in a class III levi.(Southend 1966).It was the first class III race for Don.

I was offered a job by Mike Beard 21 years ago at Gorey Yacht Services in Jersey. Nice guy.

[FLYING FISH]

UE 1 - Harry Hyams reaches into his pocket for more petrol money for Tim Powell,whilst a likely nipper debates whether to climb aboard as nippers do,Nige.

UE 2 - Keith Sparkes ties up while Ken Chatfield shows TP what the dials mean.

UE 3 - TP arrives c/w with the Shead Clan.Blessed boat is forever giving rides to teenagers.Best you sport your short trousers at Cowes,Nige if you want a run out.

[littlenige]

More great pics - thanks Graham! Sorry if this has already been covered Fish - if it has my recollections are failing! Why was the engine set up not a stagger? I see from the overhead shot that the tanks were rigged immediately behind the cockpit. Surely the boat had enough beam for tanks running either side of the engine bay? Something to do with C of G maybe?Are you in the know as to why this particular lay out was used? Just curious you understand. If anyone knows, I suspect you will! Thanks pops.

[Delta28]

Hi Nige

See post #22 on here...

I think the chain box was to keep the CG further aft and to avoid having to stagger the engines... i remember reading about it when she was built. I'll see if I can find the article and scan it.

Anyways, you're right. Graham will know!

[FLYING FISH]

More great pics - thanks Graham! Sorry if this has already been covered Fish - if it has my recollections are failing! Why was the engine set up not a stagger? I see from the overhead shot that the tanks were rigged immediately behind the cockpit. Surely the boat had enough beam for tanks running either side of the engine bay? Something to do with C of G maybe?Are you in the know as to why this particular lay out was used? Just curious you understand. If anyone knows, I suspect you will! Thanks pops.

Just rotate your head thro 90 degrees and all will be revealed.

[littlenige]

Fish - nah!! Just click on 'view', then rotate page clockwise! Easier on the neck. Thanks for the heads up. Makes for an interesting read. I didn't appreciate that the boat had won any events. Was it pure out and out speed that the boat lacked compared with the alloy hull?

[Delta28]

Hi Nige

Take a look at this interview with Tim Powell from the 1975 Powerboating Yearbook, posted by Ciao in 2006:

http://www.boatmad.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3501&highlight=tim+powell

Scroll down to #14

Again, Graham may know more...

[Black_Tornado]

In Italy raced two samples of 40' under the class name Cobra built under license by Tecnomarine in the second half of the seventies.
The "Mate" of the Count Gilberti and powered with MerCruiser would participate in the Santa Margherita-Montecarlo-Santa Margherita of 1978 but then remained at the docks.
The second participated sporadically in some endurance race between the nineties and powered with Lambo and Arneson surface drives early 2000.

[FLYING FISH]

Fish - nah!! Just click on 'view', then rotate page clockwise! Easier on the neck. Thanks for the heads up. Makes for an interesting read. I didn't appreciate that the boat had won any events. Was it pure out and out speed that the boat lacked compared with the alloy hull?

Just to add a few comments to the TP interview as referenced by Ian.

Unoembassy did 7 races and retired in 4 of them with either engine or sterndrive problems (run of the mill stuff).It was a competitive boat (just ref being seconds behind Eraf in the Round IOW).
Being 40ft it was marginally heavier than Unowot (37ft),but the trend at the time was for 40ft boats a la ciggy 40ft(Bounty Hunter,Sunoco DX,US I),then it went back to CUV 38 and ciggy 37.5ft.
So it was all a fine balance between length and power available (nothing new there).
When it was decided in 1975 to do the Embassy UK Championship,the lighter boat,Unowot now renamed Uno embassy was used for the smaller circuits.
In the 1974 Deauville race the plastic boat was racing neck and neck with Bonomi in Dry Martini until loss of fuel pressure towards the end.
Now there is a boat crying out for Ilmors in nice long hull which is virtually mint condition.Think what you would pay for that now to be built.

[littlenige]

Now there is a boat crying out for Ilmors in nice long hull which is virtually mint condition.Think what you would pay for that now to be built.

You mean the 40' in question? If so, what's wrong with the supercharged V8's in her now?

[FLYING FISH]

You mean the 40' in question? If so, what's wrong with the supercharged V8's in her now?

What are they chucking out then?

[Black_Tornado]

I think the project of Planatech was good, but as often happens in the offshore competitions the other component that had to go, the combination of engine and transmission,was not as good and effective.
Perhaps the maximum power at the time were not those just for boats over 36'. Even in the contemporary Ciggy 40' extrapolated from the "old" 36' designed for rough seas were not exciting in performance.... and in victories.
In the early eighties the engine powers had reached a level useful for monohulls from 40' and over (see Apache), but the pursuit was hopeless against cats now and even then would have to divide the sample into two top categories championships,mono and cats.
Then came the 'Devil' Buzzi, who with his Cesa mono and above all with a regulation in its favor exploited the power of its four diesel and a mono returned to dictate law.
But it was the exception not the rule.
Planatec so those were probably born too early and the Yankees had no suitable engines for it. In Europe Jaguar and Lambo unfortunately still deep sleep ...

[Jon Fuller]

What are they chucking out then?

900hp

8.2 litre blown.

[Delta28]

900hp

8.2 litre blown.

...Wow... That's EACH isn't it?!

Is that why she's running in Class A?

http://www.cowes2010.co.uk/entrants.htm

[Jon Fuller]

Yeah, 900 each. By Teague Marine

Max supercharged capacity in A class is 8.4 litre.

[Dunaruna]

Yeah, 900 each. By Teague Marine

Max supercharged capacity in A class is 8.4 litre.

I never new that, or did not read the small print :hugegrin:

[Jon Fuller]

I never new that, or did not read the small print :hugegrin:

Grandfather rule??

[Dunaruna]

Grandfather rule??

I have no further questions your Honour:devil:
Duna

[Mike Bontoft]

Some pictures of Uno in the states. Lots more during restoration, Want to see more? Let me know.
http://i53.tinypic.com/291mdz4.jpg
http://i56.tinypic.com/1tr8zs.jpg
http://i55.tinypic.com/mjtweu.jpg
http://i52.tinypic.com/bisa60.jpg
http://i53.tinypic.com/256tges.jpg
http://i56.tinypic.com/10e55hx.jpg

[Jon Fuller]

Lots more during restoration, Want to see more? Let me know.

F*ck yeah!!

Bring em on.

those Shead transfer boxes should be in a museum somewhere.

[Black_Tornado]

Some pictures of Uno in the states. Lots more during restoration, Want to see more? Let me know.


Of course we want to see more pics! :up:

[Delta28]

Hmm... You kind of underestimate what 33 years can do to metal and plastics, even though she was stored in a barn

Keep the pictures coming, if you can Mike... just mind the ribs!

Thanks, ian

[Mike Bontoft]

Some of these photo's are not for the queamish
http://i54.tinypic.com/5kppp2.jpg
http://i52.tinypic.com/hsvmz5.jpg
http://i56.tinypic.com/219arlh.jpg
http://i52.tinypic.com/b7hr8h.jpg
http://i54.tinypic.com/6tcwwi.jpg
http://i53.tinypic.com/2vj8z1v.jpg
http://i55.tinypic.com/qsqfc2.jpg
http://i52.tinypic.com/2lllkcm.jpg

[Mike Bontoft]

Sorry for the large pics, hosting goes to default every time
http://i54.tinypic.com/r7kjrm.jpg
http://i56.tinypic.com/hrkk9l.jpg
More tomorrow

[Mike Bontoft]

http://i53.tinypic.com/2yv16z5.jpg
http://i52.tinypic.com/1177jb4.jpg
http://i52.tinypic.com/w0n87p.jpg
http://i52.tinypic.com/dy0uf9.jpg

[FLYING FISH]

those Shead transfer boxes should be in a museum somewhere.

As drawn by an ex-colin chapman pencil pusher who worked on the Lotus Europa.I say `worked`,once we had sent the secretary round to his house several times running to get him out of bed at 11.00am!
He was finally packed off to design Bobsleighs for the UK Olympic Team.
Nothing like experience on these jobs.

[Captain Chaos]

superb stuff Mike

cans with ringpulls eh, I'm just young enough to remember them!

[littlenige]

Ditto the rest - keep them coming Mike - these are great.

Those chain boxes were the forerunners to the Arneson Drive no?? Just inboard instead of outboard!!

[Mike Bontoft]

http://i55.tinypic.com/2i76d7q.jpg
http://i51.tinypic.com/53tu9w.jpg
http://i52.tinypic.com/ohqrzc.jpg
http://i51.tinypic.com/s3zk9s.jpg
I must say I was gutted when the Teague motors had to come out
http://i55.tinypic.com/vgslfk.jpg
http://i55.tinypic.com/iyzs06.jpg
http://i56.tinypic.com/2ps2jqs.jpg

[Mike Bontoft]

http://i51.tinypic.com/1zeb9so.jpg
Pay day! It was 7 days a week for many months and a real thrash to get her done in time for Cowes but I feel very lucky to have been entrusted with this beautiful piece of offshore racing history. Thank you Rob Gray for the opportunity.

[Delta28]

Well your pay day must've been richly deserved Mike... You made a wonderful job of it!!

...and the "proof-of-the-pudding" was there in the fact that she competed in, and finished, one of the most challenging races yet.

All the best, ian

[DAREDEVIL]

Well your pay day must've been richly deserved Mike... You made a wonderful job of it!!

...and the "proof-of-the-pudding" was there in the fact that she competed in, and finished, one of the most challenging races yet.

All the best, ian

I AGREE, who did the restoration..very nice work !!!!!!

[FLYING FISH]

Mike,what were the actual engines fitted in Uno for the CTC.I heard they weren`t Teague.What power?

[Martin The Talker]

Mike - I saw you & MM at Drivers, when the Teagues were in UNO.
I too would be interested in what replaced then, as I belive you went to a non-supercharged set up ?
I assume both Uno & Dry M are staying in the UK until 2011 ?
How about one, or both running at the end of Sept, in the UKOBA race ?

[Cookee]

Mike - I saw you & MM at Drivers, when the Teagues were in UNO.
I too would be interested in what replaced then, as I belive you went to a non-supercharged set up ?
I assume both Uno & Dry M are staying in the UK until 2011 ?
How about one, or both running at the end of Sept, in the UKOBA race ?

First picture post 75 looks like supercharger pulleys to me?

[littlenige]

Rob told me that the replacement motors were 600cu.in. each - did he mean 600hp each?

[Jon Fuller]

I understood the ones it shipped over with, were 8.2 litre, Teague, supercharged @ 900hp.

Dunno about the last min replacements, but the rules only allow 8.4 litres of SC petrol per side.

Maybe the replacements were Normally Aspirated.

[Rob Gray]

Testing. Wrote a lengthy piece an hour ago but it seemed not to have landed!

[littlenige]

Try again Rob - looking forward to reading your story.......

[Rob Gray]

Aha. That's better.

The engines are normally aspirated Cobras of 600 (yes) cubic inch which are rated at 725hp - and Randy Garciga who owns Cobra says they dyno with all pumps etc. which probably bleed 30 - 50 hp. We had way oversized props (too big even for the Teagues) so at the CTC start we could not pull more than 3,800 rpm - although I suspect Mike Mantle had us pretty trimmed down and the bow tank full in an act of self-preservation against a novice driver.

The story for those who can stay awake. I shipped Embassy to Mike Bontoft on the US West Coast in an act of instinct. You have seen the result. Extraordinary dedication and an outstanding outcome.

Mike was going to scratch build engines but Father Time dictated otherwise - the lead time on various items was extraordinary. So we bought Teagues as a well-known brand. And went blower in innocent ignorance of the capacity treatment. I was actually not much bothered and just wanted to get out there.

In the UK the port engine stopped within 15 minutes of Drivers first time out. We wondered if we had a fuel problem. No - stripped distributor drive gear. Mike replaced but it seemed that stripping had retarded a pot and damaged it and the block and blown the gasket. They had to shut down near Poole as we went over for the Needles Race. Burnt piston and damaged block. Stuck at Poole. Dilemma. Not much in the block to play with in a re-bore clean-up. We had six days inc. a weekend. Obviously marginal qu. mark over starboard engine. If we could not turn around rebuild succesfully we would miss the race. So we went for new engines which we flew over from Randy Garciga in Florida. He knew me only as a voice on the phone and a mobile number and late on his Friday palletted up and despatched two engines into the European unknown without any payment - the banks were all shut. Act of faith. They should have dropped straight in but the pans were deeper, carb controls reversed etc etc etc Mike and his mate Eric Krume (amazing guy and mechanic - drag racer) worked into the night day after day to get us to the line - with help from Mark Cordial - against a fast ticking clock. Cowes 100 impossible, CTC maybe just. Mike and Eric were awesome and both perfectionsts. I was not alowed to start up without one of them there with an ear tuned like a stethoscope.

We had a great race. Innocent inexperience combined with luck sometimes works. It did for us. We played safe at the start (Pete Dredge had just signed me off - for which many thanks Pete - and the last thing I wanted was his embarrassment). We skirted Portland. Bit bumpy after. Enjoyed Skerries and Torquay. Lyme Bay back we stuffed the boat behind Portland (just like Dick Benge in 1976 and smashed the same perspex) and the sea came in. Banged my back. But then we were round Portland and then Poole Bay and then .....

The prize for guts goes to Bontoft. He breaks ribs after 45 minutes. I have broken ribs before - it is hard to stand and breathe. He decides to do another 4 hours of powerboat race in bad weather. Unbelieveable tribute to his father who would have been proud. He did the business.

EVERYONE I have met in this saga has been extraordinarily kind, helpful and welcoming. It was a great experience I had dreamed of for years which would never have happened without Mike - and Eric. I was happy to have Mike Mantle on the throttles in the lumpy bits (and they were lumpy ....) and as I said to him - he throttles nearly as well as he yarns but in fairness that is very high bar!

I owe all to Mike Bontoft for an unique experience. If ever anyone farms out a project - go Bontoft. He'll get you there whatever it takes.

Sorry to ramble.

Thanks for the great photos to all you guys.

Rob Gray

[FLYING FISH]

Ramble all you like Rob,that was a good read.Many thanks.

[Delta28]

The story for those who can stay awake...
Sorry to ramble.

I'll second that! Ramble away. Could stay-up all night reading this...!

Thankyou for a good write-up.

Just the stuff we want to hear. Brilliant!!

[littlenige]

Absolutely. You're living the dreams of people like us Rob so we are just grateful to get it from the horses mouth as it were. Cheers and thanks for having the passion for the glory years that we all wax lyrical about. It was such a joy to see the boat at Cowes.

[Martin The Talker]

Absolutely. You're living the dreams of people like us Rob so we are just grateful to get it from the horses mouth as it were. Cheers and thanks for having the passion for the glory years that we all wax lyrical about. It was such a joy to see the boat at Cowes.

Hear Hear - Can I too say what a great "Ramble" - so good to see the boat back racing - It was built (Planatec Hull) about two miles from where I sit here, & so good when I first saw it at Drivers the week before the Poole race !
We all just love these great boats being race-restored - thanks so much Rob !

[timtap]

http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd325/timtap/powerboat573.jpg

http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd325/timtap/powerboat575.jpg

http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd325/timtap/powerboat588.jpg

[DAREDEVIL]

http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd325/timtap/powerboat573.jpg

http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd325/timtap/powerboat575.jpg

http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd325/timtap/powerboat588.jpg

a little to much trimm but other then that ok...and its missing about 150 KG in the bow..lol

[littlenige]

It's called rough water.....................................!!

[DAREDEVIL]

It's called rough water.....................................!!

WHERE ?????

[DAREDEVIL]

this was ruff water but the boat stayed level !!!! And yes..."REAL 5-6 footers"
in a 31.5 foot single engine boat @ 80 MPH !!!!! just saying....

and here is a 38 tg look how its flying level .... it can be done ..lol

[Delta28]

CARE LESS WHAT OTHERS THINK ... obviously...

[Jon Fuller]

Come and show us. You're the one throwing down the challenge of ability. Otherwise it's all just more MOUTH.

Personally, I think you probably suffer with delusions of adequacy.

But remember, you won't be allowed huge capacity & hp, not in E class anyway. You'll be limited to a max of 6.5 litres (400ci) of STOCK mainstream production engine(s) (total).

I'm looking forward to it already.

Watching you scrape all the egg off your face when 50+ pics emerge from GS, CD etc, showing you facing every which fkkin way ha ha. I could post dozens of pics & vid of us flying straight n level, look at my avatar.
Selective posting is easy, even for an American.

[Captain Chaos]

dont get too brave Jonny, some of us are hoping its like a mill pond next year.

[Jon Fuller]

Some of the 3' chop from last weekend....

[Ben]

Selective posting is easy, even for an American.

Works for me.:bolt:

[Delta28]

Anyone got a better version of these? ...i.e. with more sea?

This is Al Copeland's "Popeyes" in the '91 race

Sorry, don't know who to credit them to... They're from the 1986 and 2001 C-T-C Programmes

[FLYING FISH]

Some of the 3' chop from last weekend....

And that`s a small chop.Out in the bay it looked a lot worse.

Mr.Shead used to say,even back in the seventies the U.S. just won`t hold rough races.Now the Italians with their Viareggio race are completely mad.Look at the Don Shead Documentary in the Gallery.in which the bolster collasped,breaking Don`s leg,Sound familiar Mr.Bontoft.

[FLYING FISH]

Anyone got a better version of these? ...i.e. with more sea?

This is Al Copeland's "Popeyes" in the '91 race

Sorry, don't know who to credit them to... They're from the 1986 and 2001 C-T-C Programmes

If you look at Powerboats 1971,the home movie in the Gallery,there are some sequences shot from Anvil of the boats returning from Torquay in a gale,with boats sliding down waves and stuffing,that`s about the biggest I`ve seen.
Aussy racing is the place for big seas though.

[Ben]

Anyone got a better version of these? ...i.e. with more sea?

This is Al Copeland's "Popeyes" in the '91 race

Sorry, don't know who to credit them to... They're from the 1986 and 2001 C-T-C Programmes

It's from Searace. Here's about the best scan I could do of the pic.

Crouse's caption comment is interesting.

[DAREDEVIL]

Some of the 3' chop from last weekend....

jon, come on..max 4 ,,i give u that but no 6 footers in that pic at all ...u are like some guys here going out when its snotty and call it 6-8 foot seas..lol

That is not close to a 6 footer...on the 400CI u got me, sorry my boat will maybe do 50 MPH with a 400CI engine and my Speedmaster so no sence in running in that class...

And if i had the money i would realy come over !!!!:cheers:

[Jon Fuller]

Our boat, from top of screen, to bottom of V is cerca 5'. If you can't see 6' from the crest of that swell to the trough, well, whatever.
All I know is, 'almost' all yank boats that apparently work fine in the good old US of A, fall to bits in 5 mins trying to race here. there are exceptions, but we see plenty of broken yank plastic here. P1 said it all, virtually all the US boated teams were doing MAJOR structural repairs after every rough race in Europe. This has to mean (and back up just about everyones opinion) that in the US, races simply don't happen when it gets rough (as apposed to here)
You can pass judgement on all the pics of sea, boats running, and video you please, but until one of you flat water pussies comes over and shows us otherwise, we're happing thinking its true.

And if you haven't raced here, or done any boating in these waters, you aint qualified to judge how challenging they are. I know a good few racers who've done it the other way round and without exception, they say you lot 'can' races as soon it's little more than a chop.

GO FIGURE.

[Ciao]

jon, come on..max 4 ,,i give u that but no 6 footers in that pic at all ...u are like some guys here going out when its snotty and call it 6-8 foot seas..lol

That is not close to a 6 footer...on the 400CI u got me, sorry my boat will maybe do 50 MPH with a 400CI engine and my Speedmaster so no sence in running in that class...

And if i had the money i would realy come over !!!!:cheers:

Speak to your neighbour in Florida John Henry Falk, who was in Cowes for the event - He will give you his opinion on your racing and what happens here.

[DAREDEVIL]

Speak to your neighbour in Florida John Henry Falk, who was in Cowes for the event - He will give you his opinion on your racing and what happens here.

I heard the designer of the 39 Phantom was over there ...never heard of mr. falk, but Will Smith is my next door neighbor..although he actually says what u want to hear and not really how things are..lol

[Ciao]

..never heard of mr. falkl

These people have.

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-boating-discussion/186583-makings-one-hell-party.html

[DAREDEVIL]

These people have.

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-boating-discussion/186583-makings-one-hell-party.html

yeah,,they are old enuff to be my dad ! lol...sorry guys :hugegrin:

[Jon Fuller]

I heard the designer of the 39 Phantom was over there ...never heard of mr. falk, but Will Smith is my next door neighbor..

Indeed, he seems a very nice/fun guy. Had a good chat with him

[Black_Tornado]

All I know is, 'almost' all yank boats that apparently work fine in the good old US of A, fall to bits in 5 mins trying to race here. there are exceptions, but we see plenty of broken yank plastic here. P1 said it all, virtually all the US boated teams were doing MAJOR structural repairs after every rough race in Europe. This has to mean (and back up just about everyones opinion) that in the US, races simply don't happen when it gets rough (as apposed to here)

GO FIGURE.

Jon, I do not think you did a real analysis in saying that whenever the U.S. boats are racing in rough waters in Europe went in pieces.
In the offshore age the boats were in Europe and triumphed without problems even in rough water.
It was a rule not a exception .
No coincidence that those bloody plastic Ciggy are statistically boats that have won more even and especially in rough water all over in the world.

[DAREDEVIL]

Indeed, he seems a very nice/fun guy. Had a good chat with him

so does that mean US PHANTOM met GB PHANTOM...lol thats funny..hahaha
:cheers:

[DAREDEVIL]

Jon, I do not think you did a real analysis in saying that whenever the U.S. boats are racing in rough waters in Europe went in pieces.
In the offshore age the boats were in Europe and triumphed without problems even in rough water.
It was a rule not a exception .
No coincidence that those bloody plastic Ciggy are statistically boats that have won more even and especially in rough water all over in the world.

Thanks BT...at least u know whats right....lol:cheers:

[Captain Chaos]

Indeed, he seems a very nice/fun guy. Had a good chat with him


most of which was explaining the doubling of the no. of forward bulkheads the 39 got before "vee" was allowed to have it back in blighty.

sommink like 15 in total werent it?

[DAREDEVIL]

most of which was explaining the doubling of the no. of forward bulkheads the 39 got before "vee" was allowed to have it back in blighty.

sommink like 15 in total werent it?

I think that # is correct. he beefed it up a lot !!!!! BUT IT WAS ALWAYS AN AWSOME BOAT !!!!!!!:cheers:

[Cookee]

Did you hear about the Nortech that broke its nose and sank in Sardinia? A brand new 2010 boat not even going flat out! Another example of American boats underestimating European conditions or just poorly made?

[Jon Fuller]

Did you hear about the Nortech that broke its nose and sank in Sardinia? A brand new 2010 boat not even going flat out! Another example of American boats underestimating European conditions or just poorly made?

Tony Dowleys Nor Tech did the same. running in norway, the deck peeled off from the bow. went back to flat water land for repair and sale, as is probably wouldn't have sold here.

dont forget shelly jorys Nor tech mono, that fell into small pieces in P1, with a large section of bow washing up on the beach. the rest heading for the seabed.

EDIT> just realised you were referring to Shelly's boat. DOH

[FLYING FISH]

U.S.Build is always up for debate.Black Tornado is right in what he says,but that was a different era.What Jon says also has credence, as today the racing in U.S. and P1 is round the cans,so designers gear up for that sort of racing,so you end up comparing boats on a mickey mouse course to an Offshore classic in real open water conditions.

Just look at a bit of history and you`ll find all the great drivers who participated world wide,had great respect for the English and Italian classic races,to the point where it was quoted ` Your not one of the greats until you have participated in the Cowes - Torquay or Viareggio - Bastia.

As `T2X` in the U.S. one said `Offshore history began when you first participated in the sport`,which is so true when you read the sort of claptrap comparisions that appear.

[Martin The Talker]

U.S.Build is always up for debate.Black Tornado is right in what he says,but that was a different era.What Jon says also has credence, as today the racing in U.S. and P1 is round the cans,so designers gear up for that sort of racing,so you end up comparing boats on a mickey mouse course to an Offshore classic in real open water conditions.

Just look at a bit of history and you`ll find all the great drivers who participated world wide,had great respect for the English and Italian classic races,to the point where it was quoted ` Your not one of the greats until you have participated in the Cowes - Torquay or Viareggio - Bastia.

As `T2X` in the U.S. one said `Offshore history began when you first participated in the sport`,which is so true when you read the sort of claptrap comparisions that appear.

Back in the 60's I belive that the old GRP Bertrams were heavily built.
But of course, to cross the Gulf Stream between Miami & Nassau, you needed a strong hull.
When was the last Miami-Nassau Race or Bahamas 500 Race run I wonder ?

[littlenige]

Going back to the Will Smith Phantom - there you have it!!! I spoke with Will briefly and told me that those boats are normally built with 9 bulkheads, but when he heard the boat was for racing in english waters, he increased the number to 15. Says it all!

[Jon Fuller]

I don't think it's so much 'the waters', though they can be pretty nasty, it's a case of what conditions the differing nations consider racable. the builder then, as Graham says, build to best suit that, at a budget.

You can build light boats that are strong, but it's costly, so building light boats (for the speed) that are cheap will always be the evolution when budgets are squeezed. then, light = compromised structurally, well, sometimes anyway.

[FLYING FISH]

Going back to the Will Smith Phantom - there you have it!!! I spoke with Will briefly and told me that those boats are normally built with 9 bulkheads, but when he heard the boat was for racing in english waters, he increased the number to 15. Says it all!

Can`t help having a wry smile at `bulkhead` talk.Sounds horrendous.Even a non watertight bhd ain`t a frame.If the `bulkheads are built to more than twice the stringer depth,it`s sounds a bit inefficient.On a narrow beam raceboat,by the time youv`e allowed for a keel bracket,chine bracket and gunwale bracket,there ain`t much of a span to support,and you wouldn`t need umpteen bulkheads for rigidity,cause the hull/deck skin should do that.

Unoembassy/Abo has 8 frames and 1 bhd with 5 longl girders (you need 4 for engine support),and look how long Abo lasted.15 `bulkheads/frames` your avin a laugh.Perhaps it`s to meet the minimum weight rule.Oh-erer!!!!!

[Black_Tornado]

I do not think the boats made in the USA who took off to the CTC in 2010 they did catastrophic performances.
Fury finished third behind the "spacecraft" FPT and Kerakoll that still also has a engines higher capacity.
And here we could open a great controversy about the diesel generation and modern tech performances(see Audi in Le Mans).
But I believe that one race of true offshore is not sufficient to make statistics and conclusions.

[Jon Fuller]

Swipes doesn't have bulkeads. other than the firewall/seat mount.

All it's strength is in the Aramat/Balsa sandwich skin construction and hull/deck vertical supports. (and obviously the longits)

Will Smith was quite surprised at that. I reckon you either stiffen the hell out of it (shed loads of bulkheads) or let it flex. a few bulkheads is only going to create hard spots for it to flex on/round and delam.

[Black_Tornado]

No doubt as for the fact that in the U.S., but elsewhere in the World the several championships for years would be run with circuit races in the coast and then the boats are specially designed .
It is also the fact that at least up to now the Endurance races not had any interest at all levels and technology there is moldy.
We hope that this CTC gives the input for a return to sports and technology of true offshore racing.
But I think it is a utopia.
I think a lot more to an annual event where old and new boats are compared on a classical course.

[FLYING FISH]

Swipes doesn't have bulkeads. other than the firewall/seat mount.

All it's strength is in the Aramat/Balsa sandwich skin construction and hull/deck vertical supports. (and obviously the longits)

Will Smith was quite surprised at that. I reckon you either stiffen the hell out of it (shed loads of bulkheads) or let it flex. a few bulkheads is only going to create hard spots for it to flex on/round and delam.

Generally,yes.

I always used to reckon that within reason the more internal stringer work/frames you can incorperate,you can save more weight in the skin than the extra weight of increased stringers etc.Of course all this is a fine balance,and I wouldn`t think in terms of `bulkheads for extra strength,but maybe that was the easy option if it was so blinking fragile in the first place,but to go frm 9 to 15 seems a bit of a jump.

[FLYING FISH]

When was the last Miami-Nassau Race or Bahamas 500 Race run I wonder ?

1975 Miami - Nassau
1976 Bahamas 500

[FLYING FISH]

No doubt as for the fact that in the U.S., but elsewhere in the World the several championships for years would be run with circuit races in the coast and then the boats are specially designed .
It is also the fact that at least up to now the Endurance races not had any interest at all levels and technology there is moldy.
We hope that this CTC gives the input for a return to sports and technology of true offshore racing.
But I think it is a utopia.
I think a lot more to an annual event where old and new boats are compared on a classical course.

`Moldy` technology! You crack me up sometimes Marco with your phraseolgy.I must remember that one.

One of the problems of having `unmoldy` technology,is cost.Can a builder afford to make a lot of craft like this for racing,when one off`s can be the norm.

[Jon Fuller]

I wouldn`t think in terms of `bulkheads for extra strength,but maybe that was the easy option if it was so blinking fragile in the first place,but to go frm 9 to 15 seems a bit of a jump.

Remember this was a 'retro' upgrade to an existing boat. I said to Will, wouldn't want the job of fitting those bulkheads retrospectively. shitty job!

[Martin The Talker]

1975 Miami - Nassau
1976 Bahamas 500

Thank you Graham,

Thats quite long enough for lessons to be forgotten, & Round-the-buoys racing, aka P1 , to allow build standards to deteriorate for, as Marco might say "The True Offshore".
Sam Griffith, Dick Bertram & Jim Wynne must be turning in their graves, sadly.

[Black_Tornado]

`Moldy` technology! You crack me up sometimes Marco with your phraseolgy.I must remember that one.

One of the problems of having `unmoldy` technology,is cost.Can a builder afford to make a lot of craft like this for racing,when one off`s can be the norm.

Graham,I agree with the cost the fact remains that we are far from regarding Endurance a credible league at the moment.
All here.
When there are investments by drivers or yards can talk about that.

[DAREDEVIL]

2 things, american boats.....a nortech is swedish .....even tho build here...Wills Phantom..was maynly beefed up because the owner wanted it to race across the english channel and set a recortd and it was light in the front the way it was anyways..i dont think u would found 1 stress crack on that boat the way it was.
As for newer build boats, i agree they are build like paper..i dont like them either.....lol

[Jon Fuller]

Thought the NOR-tech guys were from NOR-way. However, yes, the founders are European, but clearly the build will have US influence, as they live/build there. They started out by splashing Cig's didn't they? (here in Europe) My words are not a criticism of the ability of the Yanks to build well, it's a criticism of the way your type of racing has given birth to a breed of construction that suits it.

JF

2 things, american boats.....a nortech is swedish .....even tho build here...Wills Phantom..was maynly beefed up because the owner wanted it to race across the english channel and set a recortd and it was light in the front the way it was anyways..i dont think u would found 1 stress crack on that boat the way it was.
As for newer build boats, i agree they are build like paper..i dont like them either.....lol

[Black_Tornado]

Jon, this is called 'evolution' ... even if you like me we do not agree.
But it is so. In the USA before anyone realized that the offshore as we had invented was not wearing in the future, because it was not a show.
The boats took off and then nothing until three hours after the finish of someone.
Spectators = 0 ,sponsor = 0 etc..
They started their in the end of the sixties and we in Europe ten or twenty years after started to do the same .
Then came the Class 1,( European-Arab stuff) all in circuit from when not racing in Viareggio in 1993 because of bad weather.
I remember, the drivers wanted more security. The tragedy of Casiraghi was still fresh in the memories.
Helicopters and medical assistance in a real offshore race was not possible to make it happen.
Even today, when I hear that the Lyme Bay was left without air cover. Or am I wrong?
The Endurance trophy that was born simultaneously with the Class 1 did not give the desired technical and sporting interest. Thus was born more recently that at P1 seemed to take back the scepter of race queen competitions at sea, but then they too were to compete in the circuit as in Class 1. A league of cats and one with mono. This the difference.
And this it happened in USA like in Europe.
And if we are talking about a return to offshore races begin to throw into the sea all the satellite apparat from the cockpits! Ok?!

[DAREDEVIL]

Jon, this is called 'evolution' ... even if you like me we do not agree.
But it is so. In the USA before anyone realized that the offshore as we had invented was not wearing in the future, because it was not a show.
The boats took off and then nothing until three hours after the finish of someone.
Spectators = 0 ,sponsor = 0 etc..
They started their in the end of the sixties and we in Europe ten or twenty years after started to do the same .
Then came the Class 1,( European-Arab stuff) all in circuit from when not racing in Viareggio in 1993 because of bad weather.
I remember, the drivers wanted more security. The tragedy of Casiraghi was still fresh in the memories.
Helicopters and medical assistance in a real offshore race was not possible to make it happen.
Even today, when I hear that the Lyme Bay was left without air cover. Or am I wrong?
The Endurance trophy that was born simultaneously with the Class 1 did not give the desired technical and sporting interest. Thus was born more recently that at P1 seemed to take back the scepter of race queen competitions at sea, but then they too were to compete in the circuit as in Class 1. A league of cats and one with mono. This the difference.
And this it happened in USA like in Europe.
And if we are talking about a return to offshore races begin to throw into the sea all the satellite apparat from the cockpits! Ok?!

well said...i also think that my boat is build in between the 2 era's...lol its light and still very tuff !!!!!

i would like to race longer laps but then like u said the spectators/sponsors would get anything in return !!!

We will see..in 4 weeks gonna be my naxt race ( 1st this year ) after a long down time due to american getting screwed.....lol, then of to KW for the worlds and i think now ,,with new partner and engine ..the boat is even better then it ever was !!!!

Also , everyone is welcome in KW to join.....even britts...lol would be cool jon if u could come here with your boat and race with us !!!:cheers:

[Jon Fuller]

Also , everyone is welcome in KW to join.....even britts...lol would be cool jon if u could come here with your boat and race with us !!!:cheers:

A lovely thought, but Swipes would be totaly uncompetitive on your circuit. It was built/rigged/setup specificaly for Marathon, in fact, it was built for the 1500 mile Round Britain Race of 2008, from which Marathon class was born. 8 legs of an average 200 miles, some 240 miles. so very much an armchair ride, long range, and not the fastest thing in the world. All about average speed in all conditions, which despite your comments, the boat has proven to be quite good at.

[DAREDEVIL]

A lovely thought, but Swipes would be totaly uncompetitive on your circuit. It was built/rigged/setup specificaly for Marathon, in fact, it was built for the 1500 mile Round Britain Race of 2008, from which Marathon class was born. 8 legs of an average 200 miles, some 240 miles. so very much an armchair ride, long range, and not the fastest thing in the world. All about average speed in all conditions, which despite your comments, the boat has proven to be quite good at.

Jon, u missunderstood me..i never said your boat was not good !!!!!

But no matter what condition of sea u have ,,there is always a way of avoiding stuffing it !!!! be it throttle error or set up...u should know !!

[Jon Fuller]

ok.

You've never throttled a boat with 100hp/litre diesels in have you? I can tell.

Big cube gas motors are lovely, and give you shed loads of pitch control at your fingertips with their response and sheer power, but you cannot compare that with highly tuned diesels with 2+ seconds of turbo lag. Those lovely, big, powerful gas motors don't fit our class, and what you can have would be absolutely f*cking useless in a boat the size of ours. you really need to come and see what we're doing here to understand, and idealy, try to compete with us, with what you see as an ideal setup based on your thinking. you might just be surprised.

Not claiming to be anything special at setting up, or throttling, just saying that the systems employed and the sea states involved (despite your deference) may not be what you're used to.

I've also been in a good few seas where keeping the nose out of the oggin, from stationary, up to whatever speed you can achieve, has been impossible. Maybe American water is more bouyant! :hugegrin:

[dowdy]

Jon, u missunderstood me..i never said your boat was not good !!!!!

But no matter what condition of sea u have ,,there is always a way of avoiding stuffing it !!!! be it throttle error or set up...u should know !!

You said RINGS where wannabe trash,MIKE RING just so happens to be the builder of probably the most seaworthy boats in the u.k.at the mo and has been building british sport/raceboats for the past 40 odd years with thousands of boats built for the u.k. market,how many of your AEROTEKS are there? As i said in my post i would happily match a ring of similar length and h.p. against yours in the rough anytime,doubt that will ever happen as you readily admit your skint and cant afford to come over here,thats why you have to have a 2nd job selling Lucozade:down:

[DAREDEVIL]

ok.

You've never throttled a boat with 100hp/litre diesels in have you? I can tell.

Big cube gas motors are lovely, and give you shed loads of pitch control at your fingertips with their response and sheer power, but you cannot compare that with highly tuned diesels with 2+ seconds of turbo lag. Those lovely, big, powerful gas motors don't fit our class, and what you can have would be absolutely f*cking useless in a boat the size of ours. you really need to come and see what we're doing here to understand, and idealy, try to compete with us, with what you see as an ideal setup based on your thinking. you might just be surprised.

Not claiming to be anything special at setting up, or throttling, just saying that the systems employed and the sea states involved (despite your deference) may not be what you're used to.

I've also been in a good few seas where keeping the nose out of the oggin, from stationary, up to whatever speed you can achieve, has been impossible. Maybe American water is more bouyant! :hugegrin:

mmmhhhhh....i did not even know u had diesels in there...so thank u for elighten me !

and your right, the only diesels i ran where in a truck ..lol

Lesson taken !!:cheers:

[FLYING FISH]

A lovely thought, but Swipes would be totaly uncompetitive on your circuit. It was built/rigged/setup specificaly for Marathon, in fact, it was built for the 1500 mile Round Britain Race of 2008, from which Marathon class was born. 8 legs of an average 200 miles, some 240 miles. so very much an armchair ride, long range, and not the fastest thing in the world. All about average speed in all conditions, which despite your comments, the boat has proven to be quite good at.

Having just done nigh on 200 miles of sea bashing (plus 100 miles of Cowes 100),I can just see JF studying the KW course details.

Race 1 - 41.8 miles
Race 2 - 41.8 miles
Race 3 - 79.0 miles

What`s that`s you say Nick.Stuff it.

I thought we had 30 times,the other weekend.

[DAREDEVIL]

You said RINGS where wannabe trash,MIKE RING just so happens to be the builder of probably the most seaworthy boats in the u.k.at the mo and has been building british sport/raceboats for the past 40 odd years with thousands of boats built for the u.k. market,how many of your AEROTEKS are there? As i said in my post i would happily match a ring of similar length and h.p. against yours in the rough anytime,doubt that will ever happen as you readily admit your skint and cant afford to come over here,thats why you have to have a 2nd job selling Lucozade:down:

lol...u are funny,,, i dont work anything at all ..so whats your point ??:brown:

and i did not mean they are trash...but i dont think its a true OFFSHORE boat ..for my leyking anyways !!

READ BETWEEN THE LINES BEFORE U AIM !!

[Jon Fuller]

Our baby diesels (3.2 litre each)

level flight for the devil ..more motors.

[dowdy]

lol...u are funny,,, i dont work anything at all ..so whats your point ??:brown:

and i did not mean they are trash...but i dont think its a true OFFSHORE boat ..for my leyking anyways !!

READ BETWEEN THE LINES BEFORE U AIM !!

BOLLOCKS

[DAREDEVIL]

Our baby diesels (3.2 litre each)

level flight for the devil ..more motors.

NICE....looks good Jon :cheers:

just for me ha...THANKS !!!! me likey ..lol

[Jon Fuller]

Level...and level, but wet.

Going back to wave height, and that pic I posted, just to add. The boat is roughly 5' from keel to screen top. we're probably there, with our heads level with the crest of the swell to our port rear, and there's at least that height again between the keel and the bottom of the swell, minimum. I make that a conservative 10' trough to peek.

The pics are taken from a bit obove sea level, which doesn't help the perspective. They 'look their size' when viewed from sea level.

[Delta28]

Far Canal Jon..!



Das boot!!

[DAREDEVIL]

Level...and level, but wet.

Going back to wave height, and that pic I posted, just to add. The boat is roughly 5' from keel to screen top. we're probably there, with our heads level with the crest of the swell to our port rear, and there's at least that height again between the keel and the bottom of the swell, minimum. I make that a conservative 10' trough to peek.

The pics are taken from a bit obove sea level, which doesn't help the perspective. They 'look their size' when viewed from sea level.

i still say maximum 5's ..but ok ..what ever u say , hey u where there !!:cheers:

PEACE !!???

[littlenige]

Let's just agree to differ shall we?!

Back to Thunderbird (er I mean Uno Embassy!) Who's got more pics from Cowes?!!

[DAREDEVIL]

Let's just agree to differ shall we?!

Back to Thunderbird (er I mean Uno Embassy!) Who's got more pics from Cowes?!!

I agree !!!!..lol:cheers:

[Mike Bontoft]

Minutes before the start of CTC, 34 years on. I was 16 year old the last time I saw this boat do Cowes
http://i54.tinypic.com/28w2r6b.jpg

[Ciao]

Yep! I was always in awe of Mantle winning the '79 race with Betty Cooke -

Thank God we managed to put him back to work this year with Rob in Uno!

[FLYING FISH]

[QUOTE=Ciao;189403]Yep! I was always in awe of Mantle winning the '79 race with Betty Cooke -

QUOTE]

100 LINES THAT BOY!

Mr.Mantle won in 1978
Mr.Mantle won in 1978
Mr.Mantle won in 1978

[FLYING FISH]

For those still suffering withdrawal symptons,in Spain and U.S.

Note from Bonomi report, Dry Martini IV nearly came to the CTC in 1974.

[Mike Bontoft]

http://i54.tinypic.com/1z50tqx.jpg

[DAREDEVIL]

http://i54.tinypic.com/1z50tqx.jpg

nice picture....


AND JON , i still think your boat would be good for KW in P-4.....max speed 85 MPH and since u have diesels they should actually pull pretty good at the green flag !!!!!

Would be cool !!!:cheers:

[Jon Fuller]

But with our 6.4 litres of diesel power, we top out at 67mph. Somewhat off the pace.

[DAREDEVIL]

But with our 6.4 litres of diesel power, we top out at 67mph. Somewhat off the pace.

wow, i thought they be a little faster..cant u prop bigger ...well i guess then u wont get on plane...but remember u would only need fuel for ~ 50 miles.

[Martin The Talker]

wow, i thought they be a little faster..cant u prop bigger ...well i guess then u wont get on plane...but remember u would only need fuel for ~ 50 miles.

50 Miles ??? - Thats shorter than 1.3 litre races !
Give the boats a decent run !
50 miles is an insult, unless I've mis-understood your post.

[cfun]

Hey it's 2am in the morning over your side of the pond DAREDEVIL your up late polishing ye boat and so you should be, Key West is fast approaching if ye want to show em how it's done :cheers:


I think 67 is pretty good from a non stepped deep V 32' offshore boat, bet a set of petrol engines of the same hp would not shift the boat as fast though

[Jon Fuller]

wow, i thought they be a little faster..cant u prop bigger ...

C'mon, tell me you understand the power/speed thing better than that. If everyone could go faster by just upping the pitch......well, things would be different eh. Our 2x 290hp with our hull, setup and given weight has a max possible top speed, we are already there.

[cfun]

Would I be right in thinking Cookee's new boat is also aimed at around 2x280-300hp diesel engines but on a slightly larger multi-stepped hull and one assumes will certainly be no lighter, so how much faster will the steps make it? or will the extra 2' cancel out any gain in the step department

[Cookee]

Would I be right in thinking Cookee's new boat is also aimed at around 2x280-300hp diesel engines but on a slightly larger multi-stepped hull and one assumes will certainly be no lighter, so how much faster will the steps make it? or will the extra 2' cancel out any gain in the step department

We are running (or will be when it hits the water) twin 260 Yanmars as opposed to the Steyrs in Swipes) with two main differences, firstly it is a stepped boat, and this one will be running surface drives, apart from less drag they are also more efficient due to having chain drives, our stated aim is 70mph, and if we achieve that we will be very happy indeed - time will tell!

In reality I hope to be able to compete with Nick and Jon in Swipes and even take on some of the boats in classes higher up, Swipes has shown it is possible, and with a bit of extra length it should help us in the rough?

[DAREDEVIL]

C'mon, tell me you understand the power/speed thing better than that. If everyone could go faster by just upping the pitch......well, things would be different eh. Our 2x 290hp with our hull, setup and given weight has a max possible top speed, we are already there.

290 HP...thats it ??? ok,,,i need to stop..lol
I thought u had more then that , sorry...that is impressive !!!!!

i mean the top speed on only that little HP .

My 30 sonic plessure boat from 1989 went that speed on twin 260 HP merc SB.

But like i said..i need to stop because i dont understand your theory in speed.

I like to go fast in an offshore boat ..and 60-70 MPH fast is a regular pleasure boat.

Not so much a raceboat.

Will Smith has a costumer ( US PHANTOM ) with twin small cummins diesels and it runs 74 MPH ...mmmhh PLEASSURE BOAT !!!!!

So if u can explain this theory to me how things work in racing over there ..i may understand this.

I am serious, no insult ment !!!! I would love to understand.

[DAREDEVIL]

Hey it's 2am in the morning over your side of the pond DAREDEVIL your up late polishing ye boat and so you should be, Key West is fast approaching if ye want to show em how it's done :cheers:


I think 67 is pretty good from a non stepped deep V 32' offshore boat, bet a set of petrol engines of the same hp would not shift the boat as fast though

I think it was 3 am..lol and yes..still working on the boat TEAM deal...for KW and 2 other races....need funds, so no sleep here.....

seeking sponsors is a 24/7 job !!!! and not always easy .

I am not a rich kid that can go racing without outside support.

[cfun]

290 HP...My 30 sonic plessure boat from 1989 went that speed on twin 260 HP merc SB.

Also you have to bare in mind the 30' Sonic would probably measure not much more than 26' with the way the UIM Endurance measurements work, so it would no doubt be quite a lot smaller than the British 32' Phantom


Originally Posted by Cookee ... in reality I hope to be able to compete with Nick and Jon in Swipes and even take on some of the boats in classes higher up, Swipes has shown it is possible, and with a bit of extra length it should help us in the rough?

Will be really great when Swipes and the BananaShark 34' finally get together,:up: should be a close match

[DAREDEVIL]

Also you have to bare in mind the 30' Sonic would probably measure not much more than 26' with the way the UIM Endurance measurements work, so it would no doubt be quite a lot smaller than the British 32' Phantom




Will be really great when Swipes and the BananaShark 34' finally get together,:up: should be a close match


C fun, the 30 foot sonic messured 29.4 feet ( 8 m + 96 cm ) from bow to transom ( where the drives bolt on, not the swim platform. ) !!!!!!

ITS NOT A FOUNTAIN...lol

My Aero-tek, messures 31.4 from bow to transom and only has a single engine ....straight bottom...heavy #5 with transmission ,over 80MPH..cant tell u the real #...secret..LOL but fast !!!!!

[dowdy]

C fun, the 30 foot sonic messured 29.4 feet ( 8 m + 96 cm ) from bow to transom ( where the drives bolt on, not the swim platform. ) !!!!!!

ITS NOT A FOUNTAIN...lol

My Aero-tek, messures 31.4 from bow to transom and only has a single engine ....straight bottom...heavy #5 with transmission ,over 80MPH..cant tell u the real #...secret..LOL but fast !!!!!

JUNGLE JUICE ADDITIVE IN THE TANK:hugegrin:

[DAREDEVIL]

JUNGLE JUICE ADDITIVE IN THE TANK:hugegrin:

??????

[dowdy]

??????

The REAL secret. If it aint an additive in your fuel mix,it must be the HAIR flow.:hugegrin:

[DAREDEVIL]

The REAL secret. If it aint an additive in your fuel mix,it must be the HAIR flow.:hugegrin:

there is no secret, 598 CI, on pump gas ( 93 octane ) ..830 HP ..850+ FPT ..32 pitch 4 blade @ 5950 RPM, with a 1:68 gear ratio.
Boat weighs 5700 US pounds with 70 gallons of fuel.

The motor can handle a lot more prop then that so if i stick my 36 on there ...still at 5800 RPM u can figure out how fast she is .

Oh, slip is at 18% so take that off.....


here is how u do it : pitch ( 36 ) X RPM ( 5800 ) / ratio ( 1.68 ) / 1056 - 18% slip = 96.5 MPH !!!!

and most of the time these calculations are with in +/- 3 mph !!!!!

[dowdy]

there is no secret, 598 CI, on pump gas ( 93 octane ) ..830 HP ..850+ FPT ..32 pitch 4 blade @ 5950 RPM, with a 1:68 gear ratio.
Boat weighs 5700 US pounds with 70 gallons of fuel.

The motor can handle a lot more prop then that so if i stick my 36 on there ...still at 5800 RPM u can figure out how fast she is .

Oh, slip is at 18% so take that off.....


here is how u do it : pitch ( 36 ) X RPM ( 5800 ) / ratio ( 1.68 ) / 1056 - 18% slip = 96.5 MPH !!!!

and most of the time these calculations are with in +/- 3 mph !!!!!

I was baffled by the square on the hippopotamus at school and x-z+y2 was always a no brainer for me ,always scowed off when maths was on ,i just fill it full of juice and put me foot down:devil:

[DAREDEVIL]

I was baffled by the square on the hippopotamus at school and x-z+y2 was always a no brainer for me ,always scowed off when maths was on ,i just fill it full of juice and put me foot down:devil:

what is the square on the hippopotamus ??? :rolleyes:

Hey..if u are trying to play with me buddy..lol, i have no clue about math !!!

DUDE, i am blond !!!!!

So please stay on track here....its about boats !!!!!! LOL


and ok then, how fast is my boat with a 32 pitch prop ???
Or even better, what rpm and prop is Jon running if his boat tops out at 67 MPH ????? mmhhhhhh

[dowdy]

what is the square on the hippopotamus ??? :rolleyes:

Hey..if u are trying to play with me buddy..lol, i have no clue about math !!!

DUDE, i am blond !!!!!

So please stay on track here....its about boats !!!!!! LOL


and ok then, how fast is my boat with a 32 pitch prop ???
Or even better, what rpm and prop is Jon running if his boat tops out at 67 MPH ????? mmhhhhhh

The square root on the hypotenuse is equal to the sum of the square of the other two sides,basic fundamental in geometry/trigonometry)helpful in old style navigation,before G.P.S.:seaman:

[Jon Fuller]

Scott, we run the diesels at around 4200rpm (governor cuts in at 4300). we spin Merc Bravo1's @ 28" pitch via 1.5: merc XR Sportmasters. We see IRO 10-11% slip.

4200rpm divided by 1.5 = 2800 rpm @ the prop, x 28 pitch, divided by 1056 (magic number) = 74.24 less 10% slip = 66.81mph

math backs up the Gaffrig/GPS.

As I've said a couple of times, it's not a fast top speed boat, it wasn't built to be. but if you come over here with your boat, and we have a rough CTC, you might just find this slow old boat (and a few others) in front of you.

BTW, I just did the math on the figures you gave for your boat (5950rpm /1.68 gears /32pitch /18% slip and I make it 88mph, not 96

over here, for marathon class, we'd expect to see a boat like yours in D class, with something like a 500efi in it, or a 525, but with the CMI's removed (separate runner headers are not allowed in D) It wouldn't set the world alight top speed, but would be a good average speed boat. if you ran the engine you have, you'd have to run in C-sport and compete with something like the Buzzi 39 with twin 560hp, or possibly twin 600hp FPT diesels on trimax's. good luck with that if someone starts pushing hard in one of them, especially if it blows hard that day.....you'll eat his rooster for like 10 seconds, then you wont see him again till the prize giving.

There is a guy running one of these currently, but he doesn't seem to push it very hard in the rough, ..a crying shame.

[DAREDEVIL]

Scott, we run the diesels at around 4200rpm (governor cuts in at 4300). we spin Merc Bravo1's @ 28" pitch via 1.5: merc XR Sportmasters. We see IRO 10-11% slip.

4200rpm divided by 1.5 = 2800 rpm @ the prop, x 28 pitch, divided by 1056 (magic number) = 74.24 less 10% slip = 66.81mph

math backs up the Gaffrig/GPS.

As I've said a couple of times, it's not a fast top speed boat, it wasn't built to be. but if you come over here with your boat, and we have a rough CTC, you might just find this slow old boat (and a few others) in front of you.

BTW, I just did the math on the figures you gave for your boat (5950rpm /1.68 gears /32pitch /18% slip and I make it 88mph, not 96

over here, for marathon class, we'd expect to see a boat like yours in D class, with something like a 500efi in it, or a 525, but with the CMI's removed (separate runner headers are not allowed in D) It wouldn't set the world alight top speed, but would be a good average speed boat. if you ran the engine you have, you'd have to run in C-sport and compete with something like the Buzzi 39 with twin 560hp, or possibly twin 600hp FPT diesels on trimax's. good luck with that if someone starts pushing hard in one of them, especially if it blows hard that day.....you'll eat his rooster for like 10 seconds, then you wont see him again till the prize giving.

There is a guy running one of these currently, but he doesn't seem to push it very hard in the rough, ..a crying shame.

NO,NO,NO...the 32 is the prop i race in P-4, which is 85 max speed !!!!!!
The 36 is my all day fun prop !!!!!!!

witha 500 efi and a speedmaster #5 my boat would do maybe 65 MPH...no likey !!!

[Jon Fuller]

witha 500 efi and a speedmaster #5 my boat would do maybe 65 MPH...no likey !!!

Yes, I realise that, but you'd be competitive in class. I don't think you would with your 600 cube motor, certainly not against a well driven Buzzi 39 when it roughs up.

[DAREDEVIL]

Yes, I realise that, but you'd be competitive in class. I don't think you would with your 600 cube motor, certainly not against a well driven Buzzi 39 when it roughs up.

I agree...anything bigger then 35/36...is tuff to beat for me with my 32...but i give them a run for the money tho !!!!!!!:cheers:

Below 5 foot seas !! LOL:devil: ( btw, can u rename the litlle devil in daredevil ???? I LIKE IT !!!!! )

[Jon Fuller]

I agree...anything bigger then 35/36...is tuff to beat for me with my 32...but i give them a run for the money tho !!!!!!!:cheers:

Below 5 foot seas !!

Maybe, but a Buzzi 39 with 1200 horses and the benefit / balance of counter rotation is always gonna a tough nut to crack.

[DAREDEVIL]

Maybe, but a Buzzi 39 with 1200 horses and the benefit / balance of counter rotation is always gonna a tough nut to crack.

OH,,no doubt !!!!!

[lain]

Daredevil here's your square hypotenuse:

Although I've limited racing experience I think I can offer you some valuable advice that hasn't previously been mentioned that I'm sure you'll thank me for later:

Being an American boat, to save weight remove all 8 cupholders from the dash and the 12 from the rear and I'm sorry to say all the beer, yes every barrel, and now that’s gone there's no need for that double door fridge! And kick out the stereo and all associated wiring, (sorry I don't know the Americanism for Stereo but it's the thing kicking out all that Elvis noise) that should save you a few kilo's (couple of hundredweight) and then there's the chrome! And more chrome and that extra chrome you put on for good measure, get rid of that to.

There, now she's as light as a feather.

1 last tip:

Remove the notorious aggregate of swirly colours (sorry; colors) from the dash because identifying where the gauges are on a long distance race is essential.

And when you come over how about affixing something to your boat that allows us to identify your country of origin?:devil:

[Carl]

:devil:

[Shelbysteve]

http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd325/timtap/powerboat573.jpg

http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd325/timtap/powerboat575.jpg

http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd325/timtap/powerboat588.jpg

These shots are amazing! Time stoodstill for 35 odd years.

[DAREDEVIL]

Daredevil here's your square hypotenuse:

Although I've limited racing experience I think I can offer you some valuable advice that hasn't previously been mentioned that I'm sure you'll thank me for later:

Being an American boat, to save weight remove all 8 cupholders from the dash and the 12 from the rear and I'm sorry to say all the beer, yes every barrel, and now that’s gone there's no need for that double door fridge! And kick out the stereo and all associated wiring, (sorry I don't know the Americanism for Stereo but it's the thing kicking out all that Elvis noise) that should save you a few kilo's (couple of hundredweight) and then there's the chrome! And more chrome and that extra chrome you put on for good measure, get rid of that to.

There, now she's as light as a feather.

1 last tip:

Remove the notorious aggregate of swirly colours (sorry; colors) from the dash because identifying where the gauges are on a long distance race is essential.

And when you come over how about affixing something to your boat that allows us to identify your country of origin?:devil:

Thanks for the HYPO..but in my boat there are no cupholders and i dont drink alcohol ...mhhhhhhhh....wrong guy here buddy ..still funny as hell tho..lol:devil:

[littlenige]

Daredevil/Jon - when are you guys getting engaged?

[DAREDEVIL]

Daredevil/Jon - when are you guys getting engaged?

Why u wanna know, are u jellous ???? lol

[dowdy]

Why u wanna know, are u jellous ???? lol

How the feck are you going to fit a prop on third finger left hand:hugegrin:

[DAREDEVIL]

How the feck are you going to fit a prop on third finger left hand:hugegrin:

hahahahaha

[Alan Bontoft]

A couple of photos from the sat evening pre race , got alot more of dry martini but having a nightmare with file sizes I'll get them on eventually.

[lain]

A couple of photos from the sat evening pre race , got alot more of dry martini but having a nightmare with file sizes I'll get them on eventually.

:up: It's a lovely boat, out of curiosity what speed is she capable of with current setup?

[Alan Bontoft]

:up: It's a lovely boat, out of curiosity what speed is she capable of with current setup?

I don't know but i'm sure mike will answer that for you.It's the first time I've been to ctc and I have to say I'm hooked ,will certainly be going next year ,and can see it becoming a bit of an unhealthy obsession. After watching nearly all of the footage from this site ,it doesn't seem to have as much interest as it once did, I sincerely hope it carries on long into the future as I,m hooked.:hugegrin:

[Rob Gray]

The best we saw with the blown Teagues was 85 mph before the noise stopped. With the normally aspirated Cobras we saw 75 mph on the CTC run home to Gurnard. But VERY over-propped. I would think 80 or just under on lowish tanks with the right props - and that is probably more than enough for the old girl. I think that even if you put the Duchess of Cornwall in running spikes she would still be overtaken by Kelly Holmes in gym shoes.

[FLYING FISH]

The best we saw with the blown Teagues was 85 mph before the noise stopped. With the normally aspirated Cobras we saw 75 mph on the CTC run home to Gurnard. But VERY over-propped. I would think 80 or just under on lowish tanks with the right props - and that is probably more than enough for the old girl. I think that even if you put the Duchess of Cornwall in running spikes she would still be overtaken by Kelly Holmes in gym shoes.

In 1974 when built ,Unoembassy averaged 69.5 mph in moderate conditions in the Round the Island race,finishing 1 second behind the 36ft cigarette `Eraf`. It was running 2 x 600hp kiekhaefers,so in light conditions and say 250 more hp,it could well top 80 mph.

[littlenige]

Ahr, the legend that is Eraf..........................I wonder if this pic was taken at the start of that very race?

[cfun]

And as reported in earlier threads D2S with it's diesel engines and higher weight did around 75ish with the 500hp and up to 82mph with the 630hp Sabre Diesel engines ... would it be right to think the Cobras were around 550-600hp each taking D2S speeds as a guide line

Why such a large difference in speed between the Classic Cinzano CUV which is a simular hull but aluminium which seems to be getting around a 100mph with the newly installed 725hp engines

As a classic boat how does the HP and speeds relate to the Cigarette Bounty Hunter

[Ciao]

Why such a large difference in speed between the Classic Cinzano CUV which is a simular hull but aluminium which seems to be getting around a 100mph with the newly installed 725hp engines



Engine weight and propeller evolution.

Uno, once dialled in will see speeds in the late 80's early 90's.

[FLYING FISH]

Ahr, the legend that is Eraf..........................I wonder if this pic was taken at the start of that very race?

I think it was the Needles 74.Beken took a load that day going across Poole Bay from Fairway Buoy.

[FLYING FISH]

And as reported in earlier threads D2S with it's diesel engines and higher weight did around 75ish with the 500hp and up to 82mph with the 630hp Sabre Diesel engines ... would it be right to think the Cobras were around 550-600hp each taking D2S speeds as a guide line

Why such a large difference in speed between the Classic Cinzano CUV which is a simular hull but aluminium which seems to be getting around a 100mph with the newly installed 725hp engines

As a classic boat how does the HP and speeds relate to the Cigarette Bounty Hunter


Bounty Hunter has 1200hp and was averaging 65 mph in moderate conditions in the U.S.

The thing is you could add approx 10mph to average speed for light condition,then another 10mph for smooth seas,and another 10mph for the extra hp and before you know it your up to 100mph,and you have a heavier boat slightly.

[Delta28]

In 1974 when built ,Unoembassy averaged 69.5 mph in moderate conditions in the Round the Island race,finishing 1 second behind the 36ft cigarette `Eraf`. It was running 2 x 600hp kiekhaefers,so in light conditions and say 250 more hp,it could well top 80 mph.

I've seen this mentioned somewhere else recently too, but can't remember where...

Uno-Embassy broke in the main (C-T-C) race ..and they got the old tin boat out, re-painted in Embassy colours, for the Round-the-Island... The "old" but great Unowot... And they found that it went like a rocket. Didn't Mr Shead reckon she was good for 87 mph?

Seem to recall they had steering or trim problems, otherwise they'd almost certainly have beaten Eraf.

Take a look at the Tim Powell interview from the 1975 Powerboat Yearbook (Tim Powell thread, scroll down to see posts by Ciao) :

http://www.boatmad.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3501&highlight=tim+powell

[Ciao]

I've seen this mentioned somewhere else recently too, but can't remember where...

Uno-Embassy broke in the main (C-T-C) race ..and they got the old tin boat out, re-painted in Embassy colours, for the Round-the-Island... The "old" but great Unowot... And they found that it went like a rocket. Didn't Mr Shead reckon she was good for 87 mph?

Seem to recall they had steering or trim problems, otherwise they'd almost certainly have beaten Eraf.

Take a look at the Tim Powell interview from the 1975 Powerboat Yearbook (Tim Powell thread, scroll down to see posts by Ciao) :

http://www.boatmad.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3501&highlight=tim+powell

Always comforting to know it is Autumn.

Plenty of leaves to smoke.

[Delta28]

Two of your pics, Graham

From the 1975 season, then '76 without the "Embassy" due to the banning of tobacco advertising?

A solution for Rob Gray? (if faced with similar problems..)

[FLYING FISH]

I've seen this mentioned somewhere else recently too, but can't remember where...

Uno-Embassy broke in the main (C-T-C) race ..and they got the old tin boat out, re-painted in Embassy colours, for the Round-the-Island... The "old" but great Unowot... And they found that it went like a rocket. Didn't Mr Shead reckon she was good for 87 mph?

Seem to recall they had steering or trim problems, otherwise they'd almost certainly have beaten Eraf.

Take a look at the Tim Powell interview from the 1975 Powerboat Yearbook (Tim Powell thread, scroll down to see posts by Ciao) :

http://www.boatmad.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3501&highlight=tim+powell

Go to the top of the class.Quite right,it was the tin boat.When I searched the results I saw TP as the driver and automatically thought it was the plastic boat.Memory going.Oeer!

[Delta28]

Always comforting to know it is Autumn.

Plenty of leaves to smoke.

Sorry John, don't quite get your drift...

Are you insinuating I'm stoned?!


I didn't make the above post very clear (and ran-out of time to edit)...

What I meant to say... was that I have also seen it mentioned somewhere else that the Planatec Uno-Embassy finished second to Eraf in the '74 Round-the-Island... When in fact it was the old Unowot, the Avenger / Enfield Uno-Embassy in that race...

[cfun]

Bounty Hunter has 1200hp and was averaging 65 mph in moderate conditions in the U.S.The thing is you could add approx 10mph to average speed for light condition,then another 10mph for smooth seas,and another 10mph for the extra hp and before you know it your up to 100mph,and you have a heavier boat slightly.

Thanks FF actually besides the marathon series I think the only race I've seen the Bounty hunter give some gas in was the Poole charity CR race and it seemed to be going quite well then to the point I thought it had way more than 1200hp

That tin Uno looks a bit shorter than the glass one and I assume all the Shed boats from that era had quite simular deadrises etc and spray rails, is it known where the tin one now resides

Engine weight and propeller evolution.Uno, once dialled in will see speeds in the late 80's early 90's.

Thanks I guess next year when its fully dialled in we should know

[Delta28]

That tin Uno looks a bit shorter than the glass one and I assume all the Shed boats from that era had quite simular deadrises etc and spray rails, is it known where the tin one now resides

37' Aluminium and, sadly, destroyed by customs at Gibraltar




You an' me both Graham...

I couldn't even get Enfield / Avenger the right way round.

It's been a long day and I'm tired... Maybe I should go smoke some autumn leaves...





Yeah, man... right-on...



Pictures from Graham's Gallery apart from last which may be from Tornado Racing Site

[Ciao]

Maybe I should go smoke some autumn leaves...

Most of us know now mate - It is easier to admit it.

[littlenige]

If my numbers had come up last night a replica Unowot would have been quite high on the top of my list.

[Delta28]

Agreed... Hurry-up and win then, Nige!



Here's an old Beken photo of her first (1971) season as Enfield Avenger:

[littlenige]

For my money she's right up there with the Bertram 38 and Cig 36 widebody as a pure masterpiece of design............(sorry go off thread again!)

[FLYING FISH]

A cutaway out of a kid`s comic,and you thought stickers were sad.

I even had a cardboard flat pack of ABO,but it`s gone missing.All quality stuff!

[littlenige]

Ahr that's perfect Graham for when I hand my project over to the builders!!

[Delta28]

For my money she's right up there with the Bertram 38 and Cig 36 widebody as a pure masterpiece of design............(sorry go off thread again!)

I'm sure Rob or Mike won't mind... it's all part of the boat's ancestry...


Here's a Beken photo (found in the attic!) of her sister-ship:

[FLYING FISH]

Here's a Beken photo (found in the attic!) of her sister-ship:

I`m afraid youv`e just fallen into the pig pit,flower.

Unowot had a sistership called `The Jet`,albeit with jet propulsion.

Miss Embassy was a one off at 42ft, before the 40ft Abo & Unoembassy boats were created.

[Delta28]

Well, yes... I knew a bit about that one... Wasn't she the first water-jet boat (Castoldi) to win an offshore race? ..av. 66 mph? ...go-on then! Correct me!!

I meant "sister-ship" in the broader sense... In as much as they came from the same Embassy-sponsored stable.

I hadn't realised that the 42' Miss Embassy was first out of the womb...

[Delta28]

I`m afraid youv`e just fallen into the pig pit,flower.

I have a brother-in-law who, if he fell into a vast cesspool of pig shit, would come-up smelling of roses... Not me..!

Shame... I was top of the class a few moments ago.







Such is life.












..or should that be: life sucks...

[FLYING FISH]

[QUOTE=Delta28;191502]Well, yes... I knew a bit about that one... Wasn't she the first water-jet boat (Castoldi) to win an offshore race? ..av. 66 mph? ...go-on then! Correct me!!

QUOTE]

Actually it was 66.9mph.

I`m afraid the offical adjudicator hasn`t accepted your answer,so you will have to stay in the pig pit for a while until you can redeem yourself.Try selecting a subject like `Magnums I have known`.That should get you out eventually.

[Delta28]

Well, it seems I've done it again...

I've been getting my Uno's in a twist! ...or at least not differentiating clearly enough between the two Uno's...

I meant that she (PLANATEC Uno) was sister-ship to the Planatec Miss Embassy...





























I'll..erm, ..just stay down here in the pig shit then.....





Squelch...






Pong....

[lucky frog]

Hi Flying fish.
I think I may be able to replace your childhood memories.
The stick it together ABO featured in "Adventure At Sea" No4 "The Quest For Speed"
I've got a perfect condition copy that you are welcome to, unfortunately my tube of glue has gone hard- unlike a few other things in life at my age.
PM me if you're interested.

[Jon Fuller]

Hi Ian, how are you doing?

JF

[Black_Tornado]

[QUOTE=Delta28;191502]Well, yes... I knew a bit about that one... Wasn't she the first water-jet boat (Castoldi) to win an offshore race? ..av. 66 mph? ...go-on then! Correct me!!

QUOTE]

Actually it was 66.9mph.

I`m afraid the offical adjudicator hasn`t accepted your answer,so you will have to stay in the pig pit for a while until you can redeem yourself.Try selecting a subject like `Magnums I have known`.That should get you out eventually.

Graham,if anything, "Cigarette I have known" might be the right thread to start up. But it is not true either. :hugegrin:
However, Delta28 is right to remind the media of the winner of the race of Santa Margherita, 1974. That the (beautiful) "Castoldi Jet" Franco Castoldi was a story that I never understood.
Castoldi had commissioned a sister boat of "Enfield Avenger" powered with Mercruiser and then Kiekhaefer affixed in the stern two his idrojet.
But from 1972 to 1975 participated in very few races getting an unexpected victory in Santa Margherita, where there were two boats to compete.
A classic case of maximum expenditur with minimum profit.


BTW I would like to know where the boat is today.
And from you more details about the building of it in the Enfield shipyards.

[littlenige]

Good point Marco - where is it now? Anybody know?

[Black_Tornado]

Good point Marco - where is it now? Anybody know?

Case solved, Nigel! I think it's just that.

http://www.castoldijet.it/waterj/pleasure.php

[littlenige]

Wow!!! She lives!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But are there two? The red one and the yellow?? (all the way over to the right of the page!!!). Exciting for me to see one, but two?!!!!

[FLYING FISH]

Case solved, Nigel! I think it's just that.

http://www.castoldijet.it/waterj/pleasure.php

Hey! Nota soo fast my Italian devotee.

From the Shead design book,Enfield Marine built `The Jet` similar to `Enfield Avenger`,and in 1976 Allday Aluminium built another one (see pdf,red boat,as per your pleasureboat pic,Marco)

At the time,I was not aware of all these extra boats being built,because we were fully occupied on Superyachts,one being a 38m for Carlo Bonomi,buit at Picchiotti.

Once `Enfield Avenger` was drawn (circa 500hrs),we moved on to new projects,and any repeats were dealt with by Mr.Shead.

You can see why new racing craft don`t appear that often now,for your talking a good £15,000 to draw the hull plus overheads (boss`s wages as well),so say double that,which say represent 10% of total hull build cost,and double that again for mchy and fitout,so by todays standards your looking at almost £500,000 for a new OP I boat.Then of course you have spare engines,drives etc,and if you want a U.S. style paint job,well,take a seat for the total cost.

With lack of sponsons/sugar daddy`s you can see why the boats today need to be paid for by someone,other than trying to absorb it into normal production profits.

OK,the figure for drawing the hull are for detailed al.alloy construction,whereas for GRP construction it could be more hands on,but these boats were drawn by guys with shipbuilding experience,where detail was the norm,more needed on the superyachts than fag packet work on dayboats.Telstar and the Souter hulls were only lines plans and the odd mchy drg,the rest done by Souters on the shop floor.

[FLYING FISH]

Wow!!! She lives!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But are there two? The red one and the yellow?? (all the way over to the right of the page!!!). Exciting for me to see one, but two?!!!!

Blimey! they`re breeding.Seems odd the yellow on is shorter,Perhaps there are doing a CUV and knocking em out of SD drgs.

[littlenige]

So just to be clear Graham - the original Enfield Avenger was built, followed by the red boat built also at Cowes as the Castoldi boat, followed by the Allday hull - that would be the yellow hull - yes? (So that means that when I win the lottery and I make them an offer they can't refuse my dream will come true?!)

[FLYING FISH]

So just to be clear Graham - the original Enfield Avenger was built, followed by the red boat built also at Cowes as the Castoldi boat, followed by the Allday hull - that would be the yellow hull - yes? (So that means that when I win the lottery and I make them an offer they can't refuse my dream will come true?!)

As a Cowes boy,you should be hauled up the Medina to try and fnd Enfield Marine,only to find it at Wootton Creek.

All I can tell you is that Enfield`s built an Enfield Avenger copy for Castoldi in 1971,the design book actually states an Enfield Avenger copy,then another copy in 1976 by Allday which must have been the red boat.The yellow one,who knows.Looks like the red one repainted.

[Rob Gray]

If anyone is interested in an Enfield 26 (1970's) - substantially re-rivetted and re-built by Tony Hamilton - then let me know. It had twin Volvo straight 6's and legs. I think the legs need overhauling or throwing and that the engines were always temperamental according to Tony Cordial. We had one running but the other not. So I have just acquired some low hours small block V 8's to drop in - about 275 hp per side. If anyone wants a classic which is sound but needs the engines fitted then let me know. Most of you will probably know it.

Also I have a Nelson 34 cockpit/launch version with twin low hours Perkins Sabre 215's. If any interest.

Rob G

[littlenige]

Rob - pictures?

[Black_Tornado]

As a Cowes boy,you should be hauled up the Medina to try and fnd Enfield Marine,only to find it at Wootton Creek.

All I can tell you is that Enfield`s built an Enfield Avenger copy for Castoldi in 1971,the design book actually states an Enfield Avenger copy,then another copy in 1976 by Allday which must have been the red boat.The yellow one,who knows.Looks like the red one repainted.

I also thought (and still think) that the red one is the re-painted in yellow. But then I saw that the technical data reveals the existence of two boats, and which the yellow is shorter.
And if the book AllDay Shead says that he built one in 1977 ....:wank:
I think I'll try to write to Castoldi.:rolleyes:

BTW do you remember the name of the Bonomi's Picchiotti boat?

[Black_Tornado]

So just to be clear Graham - the original Enfield Avenger was built, followed by the red boat built also at Cowes as the Castoldi boat, followed by the Allday hull - that would be the yellow hull - yes? (So that means that when I win the lottery and I make them an offer they can't refuse my dream will come true?!)

But we are sure that the Unowot has been destroyed by those idiots?
Or are they just rumors?

[Rob Gray]

Will get some photos done. She is currently at Drivers.

Rob

[Rob Gray]

Will get some photos taken. She is currently at Drivers.

Rob

[FLYING FISH]

BTW do you remember the name of the Bonomi's Picchiotti boat?


`Solitaire` - built 1974.

[FLYING FISH]

Rob - pictures?

Built 1972 at Enfields as tender to motor yacht `Kahlidia` (Aga Khan`s I think).

Came shortly after the alloy `Gee` for London - Monte Carlo race.That was an Allday boat.You can see the likeness.

[Cookee]

Rob - pictures?

I thought I had more than this - taken in 2005 at Tony's yard

Second picture turned out to be Dogone Again!

[littlenige]

You sure can - looks like Gee's baby!

Marco I'll see if I can get confirmation about the fate of Unowot.........watch this space.

[Delta28]

As a Cowes boy,you should be hauled up the Medina to try and find Enfield Marine,only to find it at Wootton Creek...

Bloody "Moderator's Pet"...!!

..All I did was fail to make it clear which Uno (1974 Planatec vs 1971 Enfield Avenger brought-out-of-retirement) I was on-about...!

..And what do I get..??


The PIG PIT..!!!


...But a Cowes boy that doesn't know or remember that Enfield marine was at Wootton Creek..?

..And what does HE get??!



A mild reprimand...

[Delta28]

..."Five years, I've been hanging here...







..They only hung me the right-way-up yesterday"....

[Delta28]

If anyone is interested in an Enfield 26 (1970's) - substantially re-rivetted and re-built by Tony Hamilton - then let me know. It had twin Volvo straight 6's and legs. I think the legs need overhauling or throwing and that the engines were always temperamental according to Tony Cordial. We had one running but the other not. So I have just acquired some low hours small block V 8's to drop in - about 275 hp per side. If anyone wants a classic which is sound but needs the engines fitted then let me know. Most of you will probably know it.

Also I have a Nelson 34 cockpit/launch version with twin low hours Perkins Sabre 215's. If any interest.

Rob G


Just to bring Rob's ad. back to the forefront... if you see what i mean..?!

Apologies for the distraction.






..I'll probably get-away with crucifixion....

[FLYING FISH]

Bloody "Moderator's Pet"...!!

..All I did was fail to make it clear which Uno (1974 Planatec vs 1971 Enfield Avenger brought-out-of-retirement) I was on-about...!

..And what do I get..??


The PIG PIT..!!!


...But a Cowes boy that doesn't know or remember that Enfield marine was at Wootton Creek..?

..And what does HE get??!



A mild reprimand...

But you have to bear in mind that foreigners (even ex-pats) have to be dealt with in a more suttle way,otherwise they may not add their presence to the main event of the year,whereas UK bods can be trampled on at will.
Cheer up it could be raining /snowing in there.Harden you up for the task ahead,cocker.

[littlenige]

Well the only thing I must add is that I used to go to Love Lane Primary School which was situated more or less opposite Enfield Marine! I distinctly remember there being some large warehouse buildings as per the attached GEarth image, that bore the Enfield emblem! Perhaps you can enlighten me Graham! And by the way, it's about 24º here today with wall to wall sunshine.

[Alacrity]

If you zoom in on that image you can see some moulds outside one of the buildings, so boats are still being produced there.

[FLYING FISH]

Well the only thing I must add is that I used to go to Love Lane Primary School which was situated more or less opposite Enfield Marine! I distinctly remember there being some large warehouse buildings as per the attached GEarth image, that bore the Enfield emblem! Perhaps you can enlighten me Graham! And by the way, it's about 24º here today with wall to wall sunshine.

Well now,that`s a bogler.

Can`t find any reference to Enfield Marine in Cowes.Enfield engines,but that isn`t as per your map.What I did find was that Ernie Sims son carried the name Enfield to run Enfield Guitars in Kent.

All the shead boats were built at Wootton near the car ferry.

If Magnum Man can find Enfield Marine (Powerboat builders) in Cowes,it may be possible to retreive him from the pig pit,after he`s scraped everything off his rear commodore`s outfit.

[Delta28]

As a Cowes boy,you should be hauled up the Medina to try and find Enfield Marine


Nige..

24 degrees huh..?

Well, best not get too smug "sunshine"...!



He did say HAULED...



..Could take you for a scrape, up to Newport...



We'll be calling for you....