We made it,just.

[Catweazle]

After working flat out on Horatia for ten days 7am till dark at Hayling we finally got launched the day before we were due to leave.No time for trials and as she had stood for a long while i had quite a few worries.the stbd engine started fine but as usual the port engine played up .Once started she was ok ,i think there must be a drain back of fuel when left for a while.
I have to admit neglect on the old girl due to downturn in business and finance ,but when i saw her i could of cried.
I hope i have made up for it in all my previous efforts i am sure she forgives me.no she didnt ran a turbo brng on the way home.bitch.:headbang:
Many thanks to all the members who showed interest,even met a Thorneycroft relative who told me all about the test tank in the garden of the familly home,great stuff.
Also a RYS member told me about a race round the island on Horatia where he was present with Cmdr T/croft.Prince Micheal of Kent.peter Tunicliff of Vospers and Cmdr Agar.He said it was so wet they saw very little but went all the way round on pink gins,different world :cheers:
A visit to the east Cowes musuem turned up some gems on Horatia included was the original Round Britain 1969 entry form for the old girl.
Nice to meet the COPOC team guess i had better join.Many thanks to John Idden for the mooring a true gent.Cheers John.

[Catweazle]

One of the main problems was the w/house roof it was built so thin a join in the timber kept opening up especially after any hairy runs,
we decided to Glass it over after much debate.
After the glassing had been sanded we decided not to fill and fair it due to the cost and really not needed ,i used a Watco two pack paint which is designed to be flexable,I then applied undercoat and gloss,i think it turned out ok.Watco really let me down on delivery of the paint putting the job 4 days behind ,To there credit they refunded the whole amount over three hundred pounds.Won one at last.:hugegrin:
boy was that place spooky in the dark:hatchet:

[Delta28]

Lovely to see Horatia there John. That boat is part of my childhood..!

Thankyou so much for making the effort to get her there, she certainly added a distinguished presence to the historic fleet.

Nice to meet you too. Next time I'd like a good look-round the grand old lady...

All the best, Ian

[Catweazle]

The sight that greeted me after a long seperation i could of kicked myself up and down the high st.

[Catweazle]

Lovely to see Horatia there John. That boat is part of my childhood..!

Thankyou so much for making the effort to get her there, she certainly added a distinguished presence to the historic fleet.

Nice to meet you too. Next time I'd like a good look-round the grand old lady...

All the best, Ian

Grand old lady my arse she behaved like a right tart on the way back ran a brng on the port turbo at 31 knts well i supose thats what happens when you dont use things.You know what the doctor says if you dont use it you lose it.
Great to meet you all the effort was well worth it one of the best wk ends i have had since owning HORATIA.cheers John.

[Catweazle]

Jim makes a start on the wheel house roof the source of lots of problems.
The look on my face sez it all.
We had been talked into using a rubber coat paint a couple of years earlier,we hoped it would flex but it was a complete waste of time,it cracked and the water got underneath and went mouldy.

[Delta28]

Grand old lady my arse

Sorry, make that "Mankey old scrubber" then!

[Delta28]

The look on my face sez it all

Yeah... I know that look SO well...

Anyway, gotta go... more work to do on the "bitch-whore from hell"...

[littlenige]

Sure looked good at Cowes!

[Catweazle]

Sure looked good at Cowes!

Thanks for the pic,the bloke laying down should be in the engine room,i wondered where he went.Looks like i was a bit close to that yacht must be a trick of the light.I think we must of broken down i cant see any smoke from the exhaust LOL.cheers CW.

[Catweazle]

Once the anti foul was done it became clear the weather was going to be against us so i had her moved to the shed.The lads in the yard gave some time to help meet the deadline .
Jim puts his spacesuit on and makes a start on the sanding.
Steve starts restoring the hull.
once the polishing and anti foul was finished i started feeling a lot better about the old girl.
The better i felt the thinner became the wallet.:violin:

[Catweazle]

The hull was looking good so time to move on to the deck.
I must admit the size of the task hit me once again on seeing what was still to do.

[Catweazle]

The filling and sanding was never ending.
the hatch covers were falling apart so were given several coats of epoxy and glued and screwed back together.

[Catweazle]

The two pack flexicoat goes on,i used this as a blinding coat to prepare for deck paint.It was too dark to leave so due to the stupid price and small size of deck paint i purchased garage floor paint in grey and white and mixed it.a handfall of kiln dried sand and i had just what i wanted.:)

[Catweazle]

The undercoat/Gloss finally go on,
Ready for the morning tide and Cowes,the flag ready and flying LOL.
It was a long haul but i enjoyed it mostly.
Cant decide whether to paint the coachroof the same colour grey as the deck.
It was originaly but i like the white just a bit worried about glare.i would be interested in your opinions.
Any one clever enough to photoshop the colour in so i could see what it might look like.i tried in paint but failed.

[Martin The Talker]

Lovely to see Horatia there John. That boat is part of my childhood..!

Thankyou so much for making the effort to get her there, she certainly added a distinguished presence to the historic fleet.

Nice to meet you too. Next time I'd like a good look-round the grand old lady...

All the best, Ian

I would appreciate a copy of the first shot please Ian (With Paper Tiger etc).
Pls advise me of cost.
MN

[Martin The Talker]

After working flat out on Horatia for ten days 7am till dark at Hayling we finally got launched the day before we were due to leave.No time for trials and as she had stood for a long while i had quite a few worries.the stbd engine started fine but as usual the port engine played up .Once started she was ok ,i think there must be a drain back of fuel when left for a while.
I have to admit neglect on the old girl due to downturn in business and finance ,but when i saw her i could of cried.
I hope i have made up for it in all my previous efforts i am sure she forgives me.no she didnt ran a turbo brng on the way home.bitch.:headbang:
Many thanks to all the members who showed interest,even met a Thorneycroft relative who told me all about the test tank in the garden of the familly home,great stuff.
Also a RYS member told me about a race round the island on Horatia where he was present with Cmdr T/croft.Prince Micheal of Kent.peter Tunicliff of Vospers and Cmdr Agar.He said it was so wet they saw very little but went all the way round on pink gins,different world :cheers:
A visit to the east Cowes musuem turned up some gems on Horatia included was the original Round Britain 1969 entry form for the old girl.
Nice to meet the COPOC team guess i had better join.Many thanks to John Idden for the mooring a true gent.Cheers John.

Two memories of Horatia - You mention HRH Prince Michael of Kent - The report of the 1969 CTC Race stated that ahead opf the race, at The RYS, HRH said he would like to be part of an entry to the race.
I think it said that at that point all eyes moved to Peter T., who then entered his boat, with HRH aboard.
As they were heading west at Portland, Don Aronow leading in The Cigarrette passed heading east !
I think it was Horatia (Or Grand Espoir) in 1967 - I scrounged a ride with Don A., from Souters (Where Regent dispensed FREE fuel for practice & racing !!!), & heading to Hamble off Prince Consort Buoy, we met the Thorneycroft 40, & raced alongside & across her bows. I got wet with the side-slip of Dons 27 with triple Merc 110's - Oh Happy Days - made up for loosing Pirate Radio a week or so earlier !

1967 was the last year the race finished at TQ.

[FLYING FISH]

While your`e awaiting Ian`s Paper Tiger pic Martin,(another boat using up a tub of Dulux white,why not paint it in that nice yellow as raced?).

Also the famous passing pic at Portland.(But don`t show the RYA,cause they don`t like that sort of thing)

[Pacific Marlin]

Flying Fish.

I don't know if your post re Paper Tiger is meant to be humorous or serious.

Either way, I didn't paint it that "nice yellow" cos I didn't want it to look like a JCB.

As regards painting it "with a tub of Dulux" I suggest you check the facts before you denegrate a professional job.

You ever fully restored a boat from a bare hull to better than new?

Ian.

[Pacific Marlin]

Catweazle.

It was good to meet you on the Sunday in Cowes.

Graham(the Thorneycroft family member) was very impressed.

You deserve appreciation for all the hard work you do to keep the Old Lady going and in such good order.

Ian (Paper Tiger)

.

[FLYING FISH]

Flying Fish.

I don't know if your post re Paper Tiger is meant to be humorous or serious.

Either way, I didn't paint it that "nice yellow" cos I didn't want it to look like a JCB.

As regards painting it "with a tub of Dulux" I suggest you check the facts before you denegrate a professional job.

You ever fully restored a boat from a bare hull to better than new?

Ian.

Oh dear,paint brushes at dawn.

With regard to my`tub of dulux` comment,I am well aware of the flattering comments that have been made re the finish,for it wasn`t aimed at quality of the job, but as a comment often made to any boat painted white with no other colour to make it look a bit interesting.

Your JCB comparision is rather amusing,since other Bertrams inc the original `Paper Tiger` had at least a bit of colour to them.I have always had an affection for `Paper Tiger` in it`s original guise`,so to see it pure white was a bit shock.I thought the idea was to replicate the original.

And yes I have painted raceboats with 9 coats to get a reasonable finish,and bloody hard work it was.

So a yellow `Paper Tiger` as per the original,beautiful.

I`m sure the restoration in general is superb,but I feel it`s like looking at `Surfury` painted white,just doesn`t seem right.

[Pacific Marlin]

That's ok then.

PS, she's Ice Blue on the topsides and Mattehorn White on the coachwork.

Ian.

[Martin The Talker]

Flying Fish.

I don't know if your post re Paper Tiger is meant to be humorous or serious.

Either way, I didn't paint it that "nice yellow" cos I didn't want it to look like a JCB.

As regards painting it "with a tub of Dulux" I suggest you check the facts before you denegrate a professional job.

You ever fully restored a boat from a bare hull to better than new?

Ian.

Hi Ian,
For my humble opinion, it looks great in the eggshell blue, although I realise that as Graham says, yellow would be the authentic race colour.
Thanks for the peek aboard at the RYS Pier.

[Pacific Marlin]

Martin,

It was my pleasure,

If anyone is interested I will post some pics of the restoration process on a new thread.

Don't want to high-jack Catweazles post.

Ian.

[Delta28]

I would appreciate a copy of the first shot please Ian (With Paper Tiger etc).
Pls advise me of cost.
MN

You're 'avin a larf aren't you ?!!

My pictures are not anywhere near good enough to charge money for... or did you mean the hefty price of a plastic disc and some postage?

Just for you, Martin I'll waive my usual extortionate fees... you can have some piccies "for services to powerboat racing" ...plus your eternal, undying gratitude, it goes-without-saying...

If you want professional quality you need to go to Littlenige or one of the true "pro's"

I was going to do you a CD of Torquay anyway... I'll make it really tedious by adding loads more!

Will bring it to Weymouth

Back to Horatia! Thanks John, for showing us "the story so far" ...not-at-all daunting!!

[Delta28]

If anyone is interested I will post some pics of the restoration process on a new thread.

Would love to see the whole story Ian.

Please get posting!

Regards, Ian

(Yeah, unfortunate, isn't it? ..."mind if we call ya Bruce, just to keep things clear?!?")

Explanatory Note: Ya have to be of a "certain age" to understand that one... it's from Monty Python

[Pacific Marlin]

No problem Bruce.

Bruce.

[Delta28]

:hugegrin:

[Catweazle]

Thanks for all the kind comments,but no bugger done me a photoshop of Horatia with Grey coachroof.The famous picture is a Caterpiller official pic ,i have the original it was in a frame on the boat.

[Catweazle]

Catweazle.

It was good to meet you on the Sunday in Cowes.

Graham(the Thorneycroft family member) was very impressed.

You deserve appreciation for all the hard work you do to keep the Old Lady going and in such good order.

Ian (Paper Tiger)

.

Yes it was great to talk to Graham about the familly.My paint job was hardly profesional just the best we could do ourselves yours is truly imaculate.cw

[Catweazle]

I think it was Horatia (Or Grand Espoir) in 1967 -.

It would of been G/espoir in 67.last heard of in spain a few years ago,the owner i believed died but no news of her since.She was completely ruined engines replaced with two mermaids i believe,i viewed her and wasnt at all happy with her.Owned by Cmdr Rodney agar at the time,He was navigator on Horatia in the 69 round Britain.I would like to find Espoir the smaller boat and came before G/espoir.:seaman:

[THUNDERBOLT]

A full pictorial record of PAPER TIGER'S rebirth can be viewed on www.classicoffshore.com
select restorations then open Paper Tigers file by clicking on her picture.

Mike
THUNDERBOLT

[Martin The Talker]

It would of been G/espoir in 67.last heard of in spain a few years ago,the owner i believed died but no news of her since.She was completely ruined engines replaced with two mermaids i believe,i viewed her and wasnt at all happy with her.Owned by Cmdr Rodney agar at the time,He was navigator on Horatia in the 69 round Britain.I would like to find Espoir the smaller boat and came before G/espoir.:seaman:

Yes, the 34 footer I belive.
I remember seeing her, at Torquay, finishing the C/T race in either '64/5 or 6.
Twin Parsons-Cummins I think, without looking in files back home.
Total HP = 354 - am I right ?
Wonder where she is ?

[Catweazle]

A full pictorial record of PAPER TIGER'S rebirth can be viewed on www.classicoffshore.com
select restorations then open Paper Tigers file by clicking on her picture.

Mike
THUNDERBOLT

Thats a huge amount of work,thank goodness its saved,the mans got to be congratulated .cw.

[Catweazle]

Yes, the 34 footer I belive.
I remember seeing her, at Torquay, finishing the C/T race in either '64/5 or 6.
Twin Parsons-Cummins I think, without looking in files back home.
Total HP = 354 - am I right ?
Wonder where she is ?

I believe you are correct but know very little about it,only that it seems to be calling me from somewhere for my retirement.a very vague report from Jersey a couple of years ago.
The only pic i have of espior.CW.

[FLYING FISH]

Salvaged from the Vosper Sales Office,when the ex-fishead salesmen were having their 3hr exceutive lunch hour.

[Martin The Talker]

I believe you are correct but know very little about it,only that it seems to be calling me from somewhere for my retirement.a very vague report from Jersey a couple of years ago.
The only pic i have of espior.CW.

THATS THE ONE !

[Martin The Talker]

Salvaged from the Vosper Sales Office,when the ex-fishead salesmen were having their 3hr exceutive lunch hour.

Whose a naughty boy then ?

[FLYING FISH]

A brace of Nelsons.

Bani Yas,Horatia & Sunpower.It looks like scrutineering at Souter before Round Britain,but I just can`t remember where scrutineering was for that.Avenger Too in foreground.

[Catweazle]

Salvaged from the Vosper Sales Office,when the ex-fishead salesmen were having their 3hr exceutive lunch hour.

Many thanks for those i havnt seen them before :cheers: Cw.

[Catweazle]

A brace of Nelsons.

Bani Yas,Horatia & Sunpower.It looks like scrutineering at Souter before Round Britain,but I just can`t remember where scrutineering was for that.Avenger Too in foreground.

Thanks for pics.
Bani yas, the Abu dabi gunboat,Cdr Peter pain RN retired.17th overall.
Horatia, RN retired Cdr Peter Thornycroft .16th overall.Suffered a broken engine mount when it fell of a wave.i dont know where they pulled in maybe Ramsgate,Engine was jacked up the mount wealded and they carried on,wonder where they would of came if they hadnt lost a lot of time.
It was blamed on a fracture maybe through careless handling at the docks.
Sunpower.boat 339 Charles L Wilson not listed as a finisher.
Grand Espior ,239 R J Wade,13th overall i bet that gave the Cmdr the hump.he sold the boat after i believe being the only finisher in a channell islands race when the weather turned very nasty,
The abu dabi team dressed for the ocasion.

[Delta28]

Thanks for all the kind comments,but no bugger done me a photoshop of Horatia with Grey coachroof

Sorry John,

Computer crashed / died a few months ago... luckily everything saved (especially my boat pics!) but photo-shop not transferred to new one.

I would have had a go, but you're probably better-off getting a real computer whizz-kid / nerd to do it for you...

You can always "cut and paste" ..literally ! ..get an old pic, trace the shape, cut-out a bit of paper you've coloured-in (sad git) and paste it on... the old fashioned way !

Ok... I'll just (quite literally) sod-off now...

[Catweazle]

Sorry John,

Computer crashed / died a few months ago... luckily everything saved (especially my boat pics!) but photo-shop not transferred to new one.

I would have had a go, but you're probably better-off getting a real computer whizz-kid / nerd to do it for you...

You can always "cut and paste" ..literally ! ..get an old pic, trace the shape, cut-out a bit of paper you've coloured-in (sad git) and paste it on... the old fashioned way !

Ok... I'll just (quite literally) sod-off now...

No worrys mate will be down at hayling all wk end turbo hasnt come back yet so i might just paint it anyway.Or i could take the old jeep to tilford rural life centre on sunday 400 vehicles booked in,so much to do,to young to be this old:)

[Delta28]

Struggling into my 4x4 anorak... is that an Austin Champ? ..and is that the one with a Rolls Royce engine in it?




..And does that machine gun work?!


...and when can I borrow it?!!

[Catweazle]

Struggling into my 4x4 anorak... is that an Austin Champ? ..and is that the one with a Rolls Royce engine in it?




..And does that machine gun work?!


...and when can I borrow it?!!

Yes,Yes and No:)

[Catweazle]

Got the price today for the Turbo rebuild:aaahhh: no wasnt that bad really i supose.The brngs were shot ,the nozzle jet had bits missing,and the exhaust turbine blades damaged.The real mystery was the loud pop like a baloon bursting that came before the black smoke .It still gave the correct boost through the range but sounded very different in the mid range.It looks like something went through it from the exhaust side which is worrying,Would be interested in your opinions on this one please.

[Pacific Marlin]

Yellow.

[Delta28]

oh !!

[Delta28]

Sorry, I'll yell something else next time...

..and would that be "JCB", "Primrose", "Jaundiced" or just plain "Festering" yellow?





Sorry to mess with your thread John (and I have no idea what can have caused that to happen to your turbo apart from age / metal fatigue / wear and tear?) it's just that the other Ian has been given this complex about colour...

[Catweazle]

Sorry, I'll yell something else next time...

..and would that be "JCB", "Primrose", "Jaundiced" or just plain "Festering" yellow?





Sorry to mess with your thread John (and I have no idea what can have caused that to happen to your turbo apart from age / metal fatigue / wear and tear?) it's just that the other Ian has been given this complex about colour...

I think it would be unlikely to be old age as it was all renewed probably no more than 100 hours ago.Dont think i would of repainted it yellow just for the sake of originalty,after all most of the time its a pleasure boat that no one recognises whos not into classic/historic boats.i was shown over the boat and i was astounded at the the quality of the finish and all credit to Ian.

[Pacific Marlin]

CW

Respect.

Ian.

[Alacrity]

I would think that either 1) a blade tip failed & thrashed around before being spat out, or - and this is more of a worry - 2) something came along the ex manifold & wrecked it. Talking from a mechanical point of view, the top needs to come off the engine to be sure what caused it. If you don't - & something is putting debris into the ex manifold - then the new blower will go the same way as it's predecessor.

My ten penneth & being pessimistic.

[Catweazle]

I would think that either 1) a blade tip failed & thrashed around before being spat out, or - and this is more of a worry - 2) something came along the ex manifold & wrecked it. Talking from a mechanical point of view, the top needs to come off the engine to be sure what caused it. If you don't - & something is putting debris into the ex manifold - then the new blower will go the same way as it's predecessor.

My ten penneth & being pessimistic.

Thats my worry as well,but its a monster job and the cost not counting mine and Andys labour outways another turbo rebuild.Bearing in mind one bank has not long had new liners/pistons ,valve guides etc i cant imagine anything except maybe a broken valve guide caused the problem.Even with the problem we had full power and max boost so its a worry but i think we may have to chance it.could of been a lump of carbon i supose.Its the baloon pop thats puzzling everyone.Thanks for your comments.CW.

[Catweazle]

I hope he wasnt looking for that sparkplug.lol.
nice to meet up with our old boat Versatile.

[FLYING FISH]

A couple more unearthed.

[Catweazle]

Many thanks again,cant believe my luck.:hugegrin: interesting to note the dark colour on the coachroof and the port nav light board painted red,all nice little snippets of imfo.cheers,John.
ps also grand Espoir no 239 i allways thought 139 carried through all the boats,unless its re numbered after it was sold.i would love to know why 139.
I found out that Tommy sopworth was no 40 or 400 and his e type had a 400 reg again i wonder why.

[Catweazle]

Having met a man on the edge of the New forest who relieved me of a white envelope on the wetest friday of the year,its back,it weighs 33 kilos:dizzy:

[FLYING FISH]

ps also grand Espoir no 239 i allways thought 139 carried through all the boats,unless its re numbered after it was sold.i would love to know why 139.
I found out that Tommy sopworth was no 40 or 400 and his e type had a 400 reg again i wonder why.

Espoir - 39 (1962) 139 (1965/66)
Grand Espoir - 139 (1967/68) 239 (1969)
Horatia - 139 (1968/69/70)
Sunpower - 339 (1969)

For the RB 1969 3 boats entered 139,239 & 339 as above,as well as Bani Yas 563.

Sopwith`s racing jag reg no EE 400,was based on Equipe Endeavour (Sopwith`s racing team).Maybe as his father`s `J` class yacht `Endeavour` had a sail no K4,this was carried over to the cars and boats.

[Catweazle]

[QUOTE=FLYING FISH;191208]
Grand Espoir - 139 (1967/68) 239 (1969)
QUOTE]

Looks like the new owner did change it then.cheers for imfo.

[Delta28]

Was going to put this on "Found in the attic"...



Thought it might be more appropriate here..

[Catweazle]

Many thanks for that.learnt more from that in 5 mins than all the years in the Nelson club,many of them sailed with him.I know the last years of his life he suffered much dissapointment from the admiralty over his designs.its the old story when trying to fight the old guard if only he had succeeded.He had a sad end i think and like to think if he is about somewhere our efforts to keep his old boat going may bring a smile to his face.I certanly felt that on a particular run back from brighton with a force 8 on the nose :puker: i wasnt the only one having fun.:seaman: The dutch boat komer is still about but stripped of its cats and turned into a leisure boat it was an exact copy of Horatia.

[FLYING FISH]

Stand by your bunks,Sopwith`s aboard.

[Catweazle]

Stand by your bunks,Sopwith`s aboard.

Another picture i havnt seen before many thanks:hugegrin: