Cyco's new Bernico 21

[Burty]

pictures of his new boat. mental machine.

[Burty]

and another

[Jon Fuller]

Very nice! how quick will this be?

[termite]

Not as quick as you. what are you doing at 6am on a Sunday!

[Burty]

another

[Burty]

and again

[Burty]

Originally posted by jon fuller
Very nice! how quick will this be?


at present about as fast as you can row!

[Captain Chaos]

Is that a new restyled 21? I thought that they were somwhat different to that at the back?

I like mercurys new transparent ceramic lower units, do they have a more favourable drag co-efficient as well as looking quite neet??

:bang:

[Cyco]

Jon
There has been another boat the same spec tested in Belguim at 88mph.
This is what we will be aimming for.

Finished the trim tabs last night, nearly finished now.
Will post some more pictures soon.

Cyco

[Jon Fuller]

Cool, looks like a luuuuvly job!

[bogib]

:) :) :) :up: :up: :up:

[Burty]

Originally posted by Matt
That is 1 majorly sexy lookin' machine.

Don't suppose you were talking about my avatar were you?:D

[Jon Fuller]

Agreed, although with that shovel nose, if you stuffed it, it looks like it would never come back up!:aaahhh:

[Captain Chaos]

Jon,

I dont doubt your knowledge & experience for one second, but have you had a bad experience with a stuff....it always seems your primary concern!

Am i just showing my inexperience here? as much that i thankfully have never had one... And do i assume that you consider Mr Bakers hull forms to be "anti-stuff"?

[termite]

I dont doubt your knowledge & experience for one second, but have you had a bad experience with a stuff....it always seems your primary concern!

Hmm my thoughts too, and what is lieing at the bottom of lake windermere that Garf is referring too ?

Need a diver by chance ? good rates

T

[Jon Fuller]

Originally posted by Captain Chaos
have you had a bad experience with a stuff....it always seems your primary concern!

Am i just showing my inexperience here? as much that i thankfully have never had one... And do i assume that you consider Mr Bakers hull forms to be "anti-stuff"?


Not a really bad one no, but had the top off a few bign's at speed and that's enough to give you a taster of just how nasty and dangerous a proper stuff is(and I don't mean a little spray over the front), even just taking the top off a wave at 70 is like someone hitting you in the face with a cricket bat, also seen a few pals get it wrong and noted their reaction 'post event', and remember, a 60mph stuff can easily kill you (Brass Willcoxon 1990).

Stuffing and hooking (been there a few times) are two places I don't like going.

Steves earlier boats such as the original 23 were a bit more prone to stuffing if not driven hard, but I think it's fair to say most of his designs, especially the later ones are pretty safe.

All just MHO.


PS. I'll try to find some good footage of some classic stuffs at the weekend and post some short video clips.

[Jon Fuller]

Originally posted by terminator
and what is laying at the bottom of lake windermere that Garf is referring to?
Don't go there!

[Cookee]

I stuffed an 18 (Phantom) with Derek Basham at about 70 mph - he was driving! in Scotland - they tell you that all the times you think you're going in you don't ..................... and the one time it all goes horribly wrong you're in before you know what's happening!

We were lucky because we went in dead straight and the boat held together - they can split at the deck join - although that is normally only if you go in a bit sideways and hook it as well - then the side of the boat gets pushed in and the seam doesn't stand a chance!

The first impression you have is of a bright light because of all of the bubbles in the water and the feeling of being forced into your seat and unable to move. He had buoyancy bags in the boat so it came up level - a rescue boat gave us a bucket so we bailed out the worst of the water, got a tow to the slip, drained the rest of the water out, drained the carbs and the bores, and had it running in about 20 minutes on the muffs!

Wouldn't be able to do that with an Opti!

Most boats will stuff in the right conditions if driven hard enough or wrong! By far the worst of current boats are the batboats we drove past Pete Little twice in the Europeans in Cowes a few years ago - once he was unconcious because he'd sfuffed it (it was reputedly a force 7!) within a couple of hundred yards of turning to go downwind - the second time was in the round the island when we passed him heading East halfway back to the Needles doing about 10 MPH because if he went any faster it turned into a submarine!

(Phantom engine cover?):D

[jackeen's Missus]

Originally posted by jon fuller
Don't go there!

Ah go on...tell us...
The forum's lacking the history lessons

Missus:wave:

[Cookee]

Missus - there is a clue in my post above!

[Jon Fuller]

Originally posted by Cookee
(Phantom engine cover?):D

Wrong

[jackeen's Missus]

not your BOATMAD HAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Missus:eek:

[DIESEL DIGGLER]

Originally posted by Cookee
Missus - there is a clue in my post above!

I think you'll find it was an extreme hatch (quite clearly too extreme) in this case.the ginger do-nut muncher lifted the hatch ever so slightly on a kilo run at Windermere trying to eek out the full speed of the boat, which to be fair needs all the help it can get with those two grown up do-nut munchers.but Fuller did not think his plan all the way through because guess what it blew off , imagine that!:jaw: :asshole: :wank:

[Cookee]

Right part wrong make! Ah well!

[jackeen's Missus]

Originally posted by DIESEL DIGGLER
guess what blew off , imagine that!:jaw: :asshole: :wank:

Strewth!!!! I thought for a minnit there might have been reconstructive surgery...

Oul T might go diving for that hatch if it's worth salvaging...

Missus

[Jon Fuller]

Twozent a kilo run knobjockey!

[DIESEL DIGGLER]

well why dont you give us the full and correct details of the incident .
:argue:

[Jon Fuller]

I did, but you weren't a member then.

[bogib]

How about put it in again for us the newcomers :D as we haven´t been as long on the forum as you dear boss :worthy:
________________
"FORTNIGHT LEFT ON PANODIL" :cry: :flame: :angry: :cry:

[Jon Fuller]

Originally posted by jon fuller
Not a really bad one no, but had the top off a few bign's at speed and that's enough to give you a taster of just how nasty and dangerous a proper stuff is(and I don't mean a little spray over the front), even just taking the top off a wave at 70 is like someone hitting you in the face with a cricket bat, also seen a few pals get it wrong and noted their reaction 'post event', and remember, a 60mph stuff can easily kill you (Brass Willcoxon 1990).

Stuffing and hooking (been there a few times) are two places I don't like going.

Steves earlier boats such as the original 23 were a bit more prone to stuffing if not driven hard, but I think it's fair to say most of his designs, especially the later ones are pretty safe.

All just MHO.

PS. I'll try to find some good footage of some classic stuffs at the weekend and post some short video clips.


OK, I've uploaded a couple of very short video clips to show why I'm weary of "stuffing".

many who frequent this site probably think of stuffing their boat as, rolling down the back of a big wave in a following sea at 15mph and getting a bit wet, some of the stranger members (ribers) think it's fun! But if you're travelling at anything over 50mph, it can be a horrible thing.

these two clips (one normal speed, one in slomo) are of a phantom 18 OCR boat which had already had a very bad stuff, and Steve baker had refused to repair it as the structures had been destroyed through much hard racing, followed by the first major stuff, the owners decided to repair it themselves anyway, ignoring Steves words. Just a few weeks later, whilst racing in Cowes (2000 I think) the driver got things a little wrong and stuffed it good and proper travelling at about 75mph, the video speaks for itself. The driver was not the owner, he had borrowed the boat!


normal speed (http://www.proprider.com/goodstuff.swf)

slomo (http://www.proprider.com/slomo.swf)

PS. the boat was totally destroyed.

[bogib]

Ouch, that was diving in rush, thanks JF for the upload

"ONLY FORTNIGHTS LEFT OF PANODIL" :cry: :flame: :angry: :cry:

[jackeen's Missus]

Ouch.

In general.

Missus:(

[Ice Kiddie]

75 to 0 in how many yards? :aaahhh:

What would that boat weigh, Jon?

[Cookee]

That one probably weighed about 700 kilos + fuel!

[jackeen's Missus]

Imagine doing that in a bat boat ...V thingy...

Missus

[Ice Kiddie]

Originally posted by jackeen's Missus
Imagine doing that in a bat boat ...V thingy...

Missus Ask Shelley!

[Rogue Wave]

Wow.

I must admit i am becoming attracted to Hardboats anms cyco's new boat looks wicked! ( in the true sense of the word)

[jw.]

Originally posted by Rogue Wave
Wow.

I must admit i am becoming attracted to Hardboats...


After watchin' that... you're nuts!
:D

The Boss got a dry mouth just lookin' at it!

[Jon Fuller]

Originally posted by jw.
After watchin' that... you're nuts!
:D

The Boss got a dry mouth just lookin' at it!

Yeah, that couldn't possibly happen to a rib!......:confused:

you guys crack me up!....blind faith or what.

[Jon Fuller]

Originally posted by Matt
What is the last point at which the driver could have recovered the situation? By the time the arse end landed after getting air, woz it way too late? One assumes the sphincter muscle was leaking by then and he backed off the throttle, but if he'd kept the switch in the on position, could (not would) this have helped raise the bow enough?

Funnily enough, Steve Baker said the exact same thing, you can see the brakes come on, and the trip begin, when the lower unit drags, unpowered on the first touchdown....keep yer feckin foot down!

got some other footage of Ian Stirling from an onboard camera losing his helmet (ouch) during a far less serious stuff, in fact he only really took the top off one.

[jackeen]

Yo sports fans,

reading above whats HOOKING and I'm not pulling the piss.


:sex:

John are you going to post that footage

[termite]

Yeah, that couldn't possibly happen to a rib!......

Well it can and did and it hurt :eek:

Thankfully we were travelling at about a quarter of the speed of that boat in the video but the only thing sticking up out of the water after we stopped and surfaced was four heads, a windshcreen and a VHF ariel, somewhere 4 foot underneath us was a rib with enough internal bouyancy to float a landrover!

Did a great "Red October" when she surfaced though :D

T

[Jon Fuller]

Originally posted by terminator
Well it can and did and it hurt :eek:

Believe it or not, I was being deeply sarcastic (or at least trying to be) :D :bang:

[jw.]

I don't doubt a rib will go in, Jon but they (well most of them) don't have the deck to drive them down. As you said....Originally posted by jon fuller
Agreed, although with that shovel nose, if you stuffed it, it looks like it would never come back up!:aaahhh:

[Jon Fuller]

Point taken (in some cases, ie, shovel noses) but the OCR phantom exel doesn't have a shovel droop snoop.
I thought you were going down the old "nothing handles in the rough like a rib" nonsense! :bang: :argue: :worthy: :tea:

[Cookee]

Originally posted by jackeen
Yo sports fans,

reading above whats HOOKING and I'm not pulling the piss.



It is basically when the boat turns very sharply on its own, this often involves the crew being ejected from the boat. The problem with deep V hulls as seen on many RIBs is that when pushed too hard and or overpowered this is more likely to happen.

As far as the recovering from a stuff - I believe that when airborne it is necessary to back off the throttle to preserve the engine and a racers instinct is to get back on the throttle ASAP when landing -

I believe that Ian Sanderson (the driver of the boat in the crash at Cowes) had already "lost it" when he took off for the first time and became a passenger. The only time throttle can hep is maybe to get the thing back up and going again, but if you had seen the wreck that was a Phantom 18 and the state of the crew you would have known that wasn't an option either!

:wave:

[termite]

Believe it or not, I was being deeply sarcastic (or at least trying to be

I know, and wasn't going to even try the "Ribs are invincible" thingy. It happended in 92 in the North Channel between Larne and Stranraer, a nasty piece of water at the best of times in seas we shouldn't have been out in.

We learnt a lot and very quickly from that incident not least "to use the throttle with bottle" and what the trim is really for!

We came off the front of a very large wave at 25 knots to find a very big hole :speechles. The natural tendency is to close the thottle which I did. That was the last mistake I made because I didn't get a chance to make any others as the bow stuffed itself straight into the back of the next wave. The hardnose of the rib went straight in like a dart. I took the full force of the green water and the diver behind me ducked. Another diver on the port side did a suiside dive across the loose diving kit and saved it from going out the back end. The diver on the starboard side didn't see it coming and the force of the water knocked him along the full length of the tube until he hit the a frame and bent it which stopped him going out the back of the boat.

Engine stalled and the boat came to a halt. The large wave we had just come down then rolled over the top of us. Once past the only thing visable above the water was four heads and a VHF ariel. After a long while the bouyancy finally took over and up she came bow first like "Red October" water pouring over the transom and rear tubes. I turned the key and prayed like mad, engine started first time and boy was I grateful! We drove home in silence, stunned that they could be stuffed.

A month later we watched a Delta 5.5m go in nose first whilst going through the Calf of Man, now that really takes some doing with those bows.

T

[Mark Wildey]

Stuffed my boat at the weekend off Start Point.

It was a small-ish following sea and a wave opened up into a big whole. As we approached it I throttled off, or so I thought, enough to put the hard nose into it but not enough to drive through the wave.

The nose went straight down and the force of the water came back and broke the windscreen, hit my crewman in the neck and nearly knocked me off my feet.

Being a Ribster I just carried on.:wank:

Just bad driving at the end of the day

Mark

[Cookee]

When Start Point is rough go about 2 miles offshore and it will be a lot flatter!

[Jon Fuller]

I'll post that vid later of someone losing their helmet in a stuff

[Cookee]

Originally posted by Matt


Also, can you get collapsible steering columns?

with Hydraulic steering you don't even have a column so no is the answer but it is rare or impossible? to get thrown forward as the force of the water forces you back in a stuff or sideways if you hook it.

I reckon the helmet straps are probably designed to break before they take your head off, having said that they are mostly bike helmets that most people use - maybe Gecko helmets would be better as they are designed for the job?

[Cyco]

Stuffing without banging your head or chest on the wheel.
Does this not depend on how bad the stuff is, for instance if the front of the boat goes into a hole would this not stop the boat or at least take 80% of its speed away.

I have Stuffed a Phantom 20 at over 65mph, this happened very quickly, I suffered a lower eye orbit blowout, and was knockedout for a few minutes.
The boat did 65-0 in seconds.
This is no fun when this happens, myself and by observer were pretty bashed up for a long time after being released from hospital.

My advise to anyone would be to invest in a very good life jacket and if you plan on driving fast wear a helmet.

Cyco

[Jon Fuller]

Excellent advise

[Bad Boy 717]

an even better bit of advice is : - never let a skier drive a boat lofty!!!!

[JamesM]

Are you sure the Phantom 18 in that video was actually an 18 because it looks more like a 19 to me.

In fact it looks more like this Phantom 19!!!! :seaman:

[Jon Fuller]

Your right, my appologies to all, tiz an exel (which actually measures 20')