Phantom Hull Identification

[Jon Fuller]

Gavin Brown was asking about Hull ID the other day, so here goes:


Phantom Hull identification

Info for determining the age of Phantom boats

'Boats built before October 1987 had a simple reversed date system on the transom, i.e. If your boat has the numbers '860322' your boats construction was first started on: 22nd March 1986

From October 1987, to December 1997, things were a little more complicated, the hull ID consisted of a number (in most cases 3 digits), followed by a single letter. i.e.: 021J The number represents the build number, in sequence, across the model range, for that financial year. And the letter represents the financial year in which it was built (April to March) The first 2 years though, were, just to be confusing, different!, boats built from October 1987 to December 1987, used the letter 'A' (2 month period) Boats built from January 1988 to March 1989, used the letter 'B' (15 month period) From then on, each letter represents each financial year (excluding 'I') as follows:

Oct 87---Dec 87 ='A' (2 months)

Jan 88---Mar 89 ='B' (15 months)

Apr 89---Mar 90 = 'C'

Apr 90---Mar 91 ='D'

Apr 91---Mar 92 = 'E'

Apr 92---Mar 93 = 'F'

Apr 93---Mar 94 = 'G'

Apr 94---Mar 95 = 'H'

...............(missed 'I')

Apr 95---Mar 96 = 'J'

Apr 96---Mar 97 = 'K'

Apr 97---Dec 97 = 'L' (9 months)

So, a boat with the HIN: 021J would be the 21st boat built by phantom in the financial year 1996. One would need to refer to the factory records to determine exactly what model it would have been, and in which Month it was built.

From January 1998, the standard RCD (recreational craft directive) HIN system was used. This defines the boat in more detail, i.e. the country of origin, the manufacturers code, the boat model, the boat No, the month and year of production, and the model year. For example, GB-PHA28016H303 would be a phantom 28, built in GB, by Phantom boats, it would be the 16th P28' built to date, the build began in Aug 2003, and it is a 2003 model year. It splits up like this: Great Britain-Phantom boats-28'-No16-started in Aug 2003-2003 model. Clear as mud!

[Taz]

Found a num on me boat says A39 is that the id number?

[Jon Fuller]

no, sounds more like a race #, mebe it was a 2 litre OCR boat at some point.

where was this number?

[Taz]

On da transom drivers side above where my trim tab is just under the rub rail

[Taz]

Its onlt bout a inch long but looks like part of the boat not a plate

any ideas?

[Burty]

Originally posted by Taz
Found a num on me boat says A39 is that the id number?

UNFORTUNATLY THAT MEANS YOUR BOAT IS YOUNGER THAN MINE!

[Jon Fuller]

The letter/numbers are the wrong way round to be the original phantom ID! Had it been '039A', it would mean it was a Oct/Dec '87, although I doubt they built 39 boats in that two month period!but it aint, it's A39, so I have no idea!

I'll ask Mr Baker.

[Captain Chaos]

Did phantom have any dickxsleksix workin there in the late 80's :D

[Taz]

Right majer f up its not that number its O3A missus wrote it dwn wrong

[Taz]

Spose it means it was the third boat they built in oct/ dec 87

[Taz]

18 years old didnt know i had a dinosaur sod that i aint going fast again might full apart:frog:

[Jon Fuller]

Originally posted by Taz
Spose it means it was the third boat they built in oct/ dec 87

yup, third boat built within that period.

So I'd guess late Oct '87

[Taz]

when did they stop making the p20?

[Captain Chaos]

they didnt

[Taz]

Mr baker has done hasnt he?

Whats the thing with the kevlar hulls in the p20 ? Limited edition?

[Captain Chaos]

the moulds still exist, the people who mad my 21 have them and i;m quite sure would build anybody one.

in fact, i think they may have used it for some renovations on silversurfers boat

[Taz]

Wonder how much a new one costs?
How much were they when new?

[Captain Chaos]

taz..................the price could vary massivly dependent on what construction, goodies & level of finnish you have.

Not putting ideas into your head...............but would a 2.5 efi powered Phantom 23 be a really nice rig????????

you MUST have seen the white one (with turquoise & purple phantom striping) that used to thunder up & down the blackwater/ crouch up until last year. fkin awesome!

[Taz]

Nope didnt see it sounds nice! at the present time im building my house and am skint my boats finished and running lovely maybe next year ill get a p25 and transfer everthing over although after seeing those bat boats!!

[Ciao]

bolt on some bat style wings onto your p21!

[Silversurfer]

Originally posted by Taz
18 years old didnt know i had a dinosaur sod that i aint going fast again might full apart:frog:

A year younger than mine! Cant believe how long they last! Mine had a new transome from trio mouldings. Capatin is yours finished yet? Do you think mine tazs and yours will ever all be working at the same point in time?

BTW friend brought the driver and the 70 rude was out donuting behind it on the crouch @ the weekend makes a good backup plan!

[scottyboy]

Ive looked all over my boat and there isnt a number anywhere to be seen? did the race boats have them? ciao seems to think that john yeoman raced it in 1984 so is it prob a good guess to think that was the year of manufacture?

[Taz]

Originally posted by scottyboy
Ive looked all over my boat and there isnt a number anywhere to be seen? did the race boats have them? ciao seems to think that john yeoman raced it in 1984 so is it prob a good guess to think that was the year of manufacture?

Its Proberly a Splash!:lol:lol:

[BluFin]

Originally posted by scottyboy
Ive looked all over my boat and there isnt a number anywhere to be seen? did the race boats have them? ciao seems to think that john yeoman raced it in 1984 so is it prob a good guess to think that was the year of manufacture?

Race boats have a habit of dropping out of the scene for a little while then retuning under new ownership. I dont think John's boat was a new build, but I'm a senile old feker now! :frown:

[Captain Chaos]

of course you are mr Bluefin.

Its a pre-requisit to being a member here!

[Captain Chaos]

Originally posted by Silversurfer
Do you think mine tazs and yours will ever all be working at the same point in time?


Highly unlikely, your xr2 will be an antique by the time mine gets wet!

Originally posted by Silversurfer
BTW friend brought the driver and the 70 rude was out donuting behind it on the crouch @ the weekend makes a good backup plan!

hmmmm donuts! dont mention them, i'm on a diet:drool:

[BluFin]

Originally posted by Captain Chaos

hmmmm donuts! dont mention them, i'm on a diet:drool:


SEE
https://www.dunkindonuts.com/aboutus/nutrition/ProductList.aspx?category=Donuts

YUMMIE:hugegrin:

[Silversurfer]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Captain Chaos
[B]Highly unlikely, your xr2 will be an antique by the time mine gets wet!

It already is! I wonder how many rebuilds it has had in its poor long suffering life!

[Captain Chaos]

still goes like stink though eh?

whos doing its rebuild this time?

[scottyboy]

Originally posted by Taz
Its Proberly a Splash!:lol:lol:
Have u found ur id number yet then!:hugegrin:

[Burty]

Originally posted by scottyboy
Have u found ur id number yet then!:hugegrin:

yup his is an 86

[Ciao]

Originally posted by BluFin
Race boats have a habit of dropping out of the scene for a little while then retuning under new ownership. I dont think John's boat was a new build, but I'm a senile old feker now! :frown:

Jon what year did you and Howard win the national 3c champs 81? and is that the last time a P21 won 3c?

[Taz]

we should ave a graph done to show all the years of the phantom

[Burty]

Originally posted by Taz
we should ave a graph done to show all the years of the phantom

I'll start it off

Burty P20 87
JBD P20's 87 and 89
Cyco old P20 Xtreme 92
Karl P20 91?
Taz P20 86

[JamesM]

Karls is a 92
Pretty sure Reddevil is an 88 not an 89.

Silversurfer's is 86
Kelvin's (Who only me, Burty and Cye know) was an 88
Blue Nemesis is a 90
Steve at Race Marine has the newest P20 I've ever seen, think it was a 93.

[JamesM]

The Mutz Nutz ?????????????????????

[Taz]

what bout silversurfers 85 i think
and mr fullers

[Burty]

Originally posted by Taz
what bout silversurfers 85 i think
and mr fullers

Didnt know jon had a P20

[Taz]

Na i said all phantoms dont ave to be a p20 nice to see how many off each boat was made to compare

[Silversurfer]

Originally posted by Taz
what bout silversurfers 85 i think
and mr fullers

Its an 86!

[Ciao]

why dont you guys get jon fuller to arrange a meet with steve baker - bet he would be very proud to see such a fan club so long after he retired - includes me really if you see my avatar!

[Silversurfer]

Originally posted by Captain Chaos
still goes like stink though eh?

whos doing its rebuild this time?

Back to Ocean Racing apparently it stayed together since last time he rebuilt it in 1992! He was also @ Allhallows and intially surveyed the damage. Get it back on Sunday to start running it in again!

[Ciao]

Mr Purves is the biz - and a nice guy too.

[Taz]

Originally posted by Silversurfer
Its an 86!

Mate our boats must be brothers:cheers:

[Jon Fuller]

Mine's the 15th P28, and is a 2000 (commision & model year, moulded '99)

[Jon Fuller]

Originally posted by Ciao
why dont you guys get jon fuller to arrange a meet with steve baker - bet he would be very proud to see such a fan club so long after he retired - includes me really if you see my avatar!

Steves a very quiet, shy kinda fella, who doesn't seem too interested in looking backwards, not sure he'd be keen on an invasion of boatnobbas.

[Silversurfer]

Originally posted by Taz
Mate our boats must be brothers:cheers:

:cheers:

[JamesM]

Badboy is a 90

White Nemesis is a 95 I think

HOB/The Edge 96/97

Phantasm 93 I think

[Captain Chaos]

Originally posted by Johnson
Steves a very quiet, shy kinda fella

we'd be a perfick match ;p;

[Jonnyboy]

Originally posted by Ciao
Jon what year did you and Howard win the national 3c champs 81? and is that the last time a P21 won 3c?

My old P 21 PTEROPUS won the worlds in 82 driven by the Fox brothers. The name of the boat came from there nick name The flying fox (PTEROPUS).

[BluFin]

Originally posted by Ciao
Jon what year did you and Howard win the national 3c champs 81? and is that the last time a P21 won 3c?


Yep 81 for IIIC & Overall CLass III Moved into IIID in 82 with the 25'

[BluFin]

Originally posted by Jonnyboy
My old P 21 PTEROPUS won the worlds in 82 driven by the Fox brothers. The name of the boat came from there nick name The flying fox (PTEROPUS).

Dont think it did. feel free to chip in Ciao

[Jonnyboy]

Appologies if wrong but thought the fox brothers did win the 82 worlds in P 21

[BluFin]

The Worlds were held & Poole that Year
Rough as Old Boots Too
From the very decaying grey Cells It ended up............
Class I - Delavarle or summit sounding like that
Class II I think was a diesel Buzzi Cat
Class IIID was Ian burnie. Howie & I came in 5th (Feken LH motor always did it)
I cant check coz I sent the damm Video to Johnnson with others today. If nobody hears anything from him for a few days thats the reason, In happy boaty movie land.
Mind you it might have a making of another Vid Night !!!!!

Not sure But I think the IIIB & IIIC was in Scandahooligan Land that year

Chr*st am I really that old :headbang:

[BluFin]

As for the Fox Bros - great pair of lads. Dunno where they are now I know one was is the RAF ( Flying Fox bit I guess)

[Jonnyboy]

I met Phil fox in 87 when I was racing, he was pleased to see the P 21 again, sent me some pics of him racing I have them somewhere. I also had a vid of the 82 races which my mother taped over!!

[Jon Fuller]

Originally posted by BluFin
Class I - Delavarle or summit sounding like that


'Renato De La Valle'. 4 times Cowes Torquay Cowes winner.

[Jonnyboy]

In a "CUV" I think but cant remember the name

[Jon Fuller]

'Cinzano'.....'Rothmans'...

[BluFin]

Cheers Yep I'll drink that & Smoke those. Correct Jon

[Ciao]

Originally posted by Jonnyboy
My old P 21 PTEROPUS won the worlds in 82 driven by the Fox brothers. The name of the boat came from there nick name The flying fox (PTEROPUS).


As BluFin has sadly already pointed out, ‘Pteropus’, with the able Fox boys on board did not win the 1982 3c World crown. The honours that year went to Luigi Radice in a Buzi Cat.
If memory serves –
The Foxes would have won had they not failed post race scrutineering, something to do with gearbox ratios.
They were honest boys and were seriously P***ed with a certain supplier of Merc parts who assured them that it had been homologated. I think legal proceedings followed…
As Blufin pointed out Mike was in the RAF, an officer in the Queens Flight, who even piloted Charles and Di to their honeymoon destination!
The boys spent truckloads in 81 and 82 and I think the above incident somewhat dulled their taste for offshore.

Originally posted by BluFin
As for the Fox Bros - great pair of lads. Dunno where they are now I know one was is the RAF ( Flying Fox bit I guess)

They got the name after racing their first P21 (ex Bruce Nash’s London and Manchester) at Fowey in 81. Spent so much time in the air they eventually came down and split the Phantom in half! Mr Baker got a call on the Tuesday (Bank holiday weekend) and was instructed to build them a new one!

[Ciao]

As Blufin said Ian Bernie in a P25 won the 82 worlds. What has been forgotten is that there was a very nasty incident in the 2nd heat.
Pete Bloomfield and Neil Holmes (phantom evolution) were racing in 3c in a Stapley Cat. Bloomers decided it was time to roll the boat over, what he didn’t count on was Avia Watches (Bernie) being in the way!
The QSS prop of Heynes for Toyota (Bloomfield & Holmes) was spinning @ 6000 + and taking bits out of the P25 deck!

[Jon Fuller]

Is that the same Haynes that went on to sponsor Dick Strutton in his class II Tigershark 32, and then his class 1, Cougar US1-46 'Reg Haynes & son' (Toyota dealer)

[BluFin]

Yep

[Jonnyboy]

Kieth Haynes

[Scand]

Old phantom Id.
Can anyone help with the age of this hull? The serial number has been taken of.

[Scand]

...and...

[Scand]

...and...

[Jon Fuller]

pretty sure thats a Mk 1 P21, same as the original 'Poco Homes' but obviously a pleasure deck version

[Jon Fuller]

like this

[Carl]

whats going to happen to the hull

[Scand]

It 21 ish foot long, bought ist cheap of a field in the new forest. Have been rigged the Johnson or Evenrude V8 at some point and was used for “transportation” of gods between Monaco and Gibraltar, allegedly. Would be interesting to know its age.

[Scand]

...needed some work...

[Scand]

We are going to use it at work for testing some new equipment. The finished boat:

[Carl]

was that the one on e bay a few months back

[Scand]

try again:

[Scand]

the finshed boat:

[Rockey]

watch out:hatchet:

[Carl]

Originally posted by carly baby
whats going to happen to the hull

[Captain Chaos]

like the 3d rendering of the 21

[Scand]

We bought it in sept 2002, and it has been lying outside our workshop for a few years. It’s gonna be used at work for some equipment tests. After that we will most likely just keep it.

[driver510]

do want to sell the hull:hugegrin:

[MikeyFIN]

Originally posted by Captain Chaos
Did phantom have any dickxsleksix workin there in the late 80's :D
I doubt it, think thats only an american problem...

[MikeyFIN]

Originally posted by Scand
It 21 ish foot long, bought ist cheap of a field in the new forest. Have been rigged the Johnson or Evenrude V8 at some point and was used for “transportation” of gods between Monaco and Gibraltar, allegedly. Would be interesting to know its age.

Morocco-Gibraltar would make more sense...or Ibiza-Gibraltar.
Oh well.

[MikeyFIN]

Originally posted by Ciao

If memory serves –
The Foxes would have won had they not failed post race scrutineering, something to do with gearbox ratios.
They were honest boys and were seriously P***ed with a certain supplier of Merc parts who assured them that it had been homologated. I think legal proceedings followed…


See I told you Americans have problems in reading....:hugegrin:

[mike k]

What are the hull differences between a P18/19/20/21 apart from the length? :confused:

[Wayne Kerr]

Originally posted by mike k
What are the hull differences between a P18/19/20/21 apart from the length? :confused:
A "not to sure" source thinks it was something to do with the chine rails. :confused:

[Matt]

It's much much more than that

[mike k]

Originally posted by Matt
It's much much more than that

???????????

[Wayne Kerr]

Originally posted by mike k
???????????
"Bump"

[Burnett]

I should have bought a Phantom.

Beginning to think I've got the only Ring without serial numbers!
I've checked absolutely everywhere (under dash, under foredeck, under splashwell, inside transom and behind rear seats) and there's not one to be found!

I'm going to get onto Mike Ring again in the morning and see what he comes up with.

If I get any joy I'll post the outcome so that anyone else who has this problem can resolve it easily. I can't be the only one.

[Captain Chaos]

often, in a case such as yours; the serial number has been covered-up with a transom plate or glassed over with (a small) repair somewhere in the boats history.

[Wayne Kerr]

Originally posted by Burnett
I'm going to get onto Mike Ring again in the morning and see what he comes up with.
How'd you get on?

[Tony Davis]

Originally posted by Burnett

Beginning to think I've got the only Ring without serial numbers!


You sure it's genuine?

[cooolaii]

Monaco lol,it does look like a Gib boat by the looks of it,and it must have had an evinrude as it was the third most used outboard after the Yami and mercs down ere.i cant tell u much more about it coz they all looked the same (BLACK) in colour,has it got or had a G number on the sides some were?as example G123?

[Peterjfinch]

Can anyone confirm? I was told, some time ago, that Steve Baker used to put the HIN under the deck, as well as on the transom. Anyone know if this is correct? and if so, where was in normaly put?

Peter

[Wayne Kerr]

Can anyone confirm? I was told, some time ago, that Steve Baker used to put the HIN under the deck, as well as on the transom. Anyone know if this is correct? and if so, where was in normaly put?

Peter

IIRC twas on the back of the dash, can't find mine there though!

[Jon Fuller]

some have it on the underside of the screen (big letters in coloured gel) within the laminate. some have it writen along the deck stiffeners, in marker pen, then over laminated (visible through laminate)

[Wayne Kerr]

That's the one Jon mate. :up:
Still can't find mine "underneath" anywhere. :down:

[sparkyvince]

I've managed to sieve this data from my 'incomplete data back-up'!

Gavin Brown was asking about Hull ID the other day, so here goes:


Phantom Hull identification

Info for determining the age of Phantom boats

'Boats built before October 1987 had a simple reversed date system on the transom, i.e. If your boat has the numbers '860322' your boats construction was first started on: 22nd March 1986

From October 1987, to December 1997, things were a little more complicated, the hull ID consisted of a number (in most cases 3 digits), followed by a single letter. i.e.: 021J The number represents the build number, in sequence, across the model range, for that financial year. And the letter represents the financial year in which it was built (April to March) The first 2 years though, were, just to be confusing, different!, boats built from October 1987 to December 1987, used the letter 'A' (2 month period) Boats built from January 1988 to March 1989, used the letter 'B' (15 month period) From then on, each letter represents each financial year (excluding 'I') as follows:

Oct 87---Dec 87 ='A' (2 months)

Jan 88---Mar 89 ='B' (15 months)

Apr 89---Mar 90 = 'C'

Apr 90---Mar 91 ='D'

Apr 91---Mar 92 = 'E'

Apr 92---Mar 93 = 'F'

Apr 93---Mar 94 = 'G'

Apr 94---Mar 95 = 'H'

...............(missed 'I')

Apr 95---Mar 96 = 'J'

Apr 96---Mar 97 = 'K'

Apr 97---Dec 97 = 'L' (9 months)

So, a boat with the HIN: 021J would be the 21st boat built by phantom in the financial year 1996. One would need to refer to the factory records to determine exactly what model it would have been, and in which Month it was built.

From January 1998, the standard RCD (recreational craft directive) HIN system was used. This defines the boat in more detail, i.e. the country of origin, the manufacturers code, the boat model, the boat No, the month and year of production, and the model year. For example, GB-PHA28016H303 would be a phantom 28, built in GB, by Phantom boats, it would be the 16th P28' built to date, the build began in Aug 2003, and it is a 2003 model year. It splits up like this: Great Britain-Phantom boats-28'-No16-started in Aug 2003-2003 model. Clear as mud!

Phantom 28,No 16,wash your mouth out with soap young man!!!!!!

[Jon Fuller]

It was a hypathetical Phantom, kind', 'Phantom' Phantom, if ya know what I mean.

Phantom 28,No 16,wash your mouth out with soap young man!!!!!!

[sorted 66]

i no this has nothing to do with phantom hull identification, more like ring hull identification.
i have just bought a ring 21 an old ski racing boat and am needing line drawings or something like that of this boat because we want to re-graphic the boat, i have phoned mike ring but didnt seem to want to know, so was wondering does anyone have any ideas ????

[sorted 66]

21 pic

[dodgydan]

hehe my old boat:up:

[Grorcego73]

The details of materials and their dimensions used in the building of wooden boats is found in Ian Proctors Specification for building wooden boats. The thickness of ply for each of the decks is 6mm and the planking of the bottom boards of the hull is 8 or 9mm.

I hope that this helps.

[ToffenGunnufsen]

Hi,

When did Steve Baker design the Phantom 25 and when was the first hull produced?

Cheeers and thanks,

Toffen

[Jon Fuller]

1980/81

[ToffenGunnufsen]

HI!

Thanks ;)

Cheers, Toffen

[mark.saunders]

looking at my pahntom 21 that i have owned for +10 odd years now but been to busy with other boats and life to get it back into the water i am now taking to sorting this. looking at the transom i see no visible serial number, could it be anywhere else? this is an early boat, black hull that someone previous to me painetd the sides and deck white, the screen is bolted into place. i'm guessing it was used for racing as it has a center fuel tank, stainless bow tank and the original engine that was on it was offset to stbd, so i assume the engine on it now was put there to save re drilling holes etc? any help would be great.

[Burty]

if the screen is bolted on it will be a pre 1986. stick your head up under the dash and a number should also be written on the underside of the deck.

[mark.saunders]

Hi Burty, thanks for the info. i stuck my head under dash but nothing jumped out, guess im gonna have to strip the thing down before i really know, i was mistaken about the bow tank, its glassed in and there is a strange deck mounting. will try and add photo's but i'm finding it difficult to upload them...:headbang: it was definately all black in the beginning though with a bolt on screen.

[mark.saunders]

picture of deck mounting.

[Tony Davis]

Nice, I suspect that's not OEM :)

[mark.saunders]

another 1

[mark.saunders]

kinda figured that was the case, hoping someone recognises it.:)

[mark.saunders]

under deck ;

[Burty]

got a picture of the whole boat dude?

[mark.saunders]

Not a whole picture due to its position but will get some more.