Ramsgate GP

[GrahamF]

Think its this weekend, and plan to drive there by car to watch.

Anyone know any more information like times of races, location of pits etc ?

:tea:

[GrahamF]

located some information on the RYA site :-

http://www.rya.org.uk/?contentID=3333362

[Petrol Head]

A good day Mr F cheers for the ride down there matey..

A good event but the sight of more V24's cracking up is a bit of a worrying site.

Was the podium finish left as the final conculsion to the V24 race or did the enquiry alter that?

[Jon Fuller]

Which one(s) broke, and where?

[Petrol Head]

Originally posted by jon fuller
Which one(s) broke, and where?

The bacardi boat you could see a two inch section with cracks on both sides running horzontally down the boat at the fattest point. Down both sides. Like the deck trying to leave the hull.
Looked so straight that you would think it a taped joint on the inside over a seam, the tape being the strongest part and fracturing occuring above and below it.

Terry (V3) lost his mirrors and the trim reservior bottle broke up ditching the oil to the bilges and stopping the trim system. A wing working loose. The washers caved into cones shapes as the bolts tried to pull through.

Someone else retired with a split fuel tank. Colourama?? I think this boat also had the stress marks down the side. But not anywhere near as bad as the first boat.

Dave arthur, Im told the wheel came into his chest, didnt know whether it was the whole dash assy that came adrift, then.

[infoasitappens]

John I think this sums it up

V8 Dashboard fell out
V27 Dashboard fell out
V24 Fuel tank split
V1 stringers broke
V3 DQ
V4 DQ
V7 pulled out too rough!

V2 first
V11 Second
V1 third
V9 fourth
V16 fifth

Dave Arthur Didnt hurt anything!

[Jon Fuller]

Is Mark V11? (pascoe that is)

[infoasitappens]

V11 Mark Pascoe
V3 Terry Mills
V27 Pete Little
V8 Ted Manerfelt
V1 Martin weks
V24 Charles Gardener
V4 Gib boys
V2 Cliff Smith
V16 Mark Priestly
V7 Tom Powel
V9 Ricky hill

[Jon Fuller]

MMMnn!, so Cliff beat Mark!

[Jon Fuller]

Any news on todays racing?

[infoasitappens]

Pete little was winning in V8 untill the last but one lap when thedashboard fell out again. V9 went on to winV7 then V11.

Class 3 2litre

First The Rendalls, Richard White then Brian& Pat

There were also some things with toobs racing

K class were there, not sure of results

[jackeen's Missus]

Originally posted by infoasitappens
There were also some things with toobs racing


:D Do tell

Missus

[GrahamF]

#1

[GrahamF]

#2 - before the race

[GrahamF]

#3 - on the way to the start

[GrahamF]

#4 - nearly at the start

[GrahamF]

#5 - trying to corner !

[GrahamF]

#6 - really flying

[JBP]

Yes the k fleet plus the offshores were all there too.
2 V24 races
1 Offshore (various classes)
2 K1000
and 7 Kclass races in all.

[Cookee]

John Puddifoot won it with Mel Wilby in Cardinal Sin second after being overtaken on the last lap? We struggled through the first half of the race with rain squalls and hail at one point to get third with no damage at all!

The diesel boats got away in the first few laps where we could hardly keep the boat in the water and when it flattened off they were too far in front to catch.

We were very pleased to be first petrol boat home and are looking forward to the 104 mile race at Exmouth next weekend!

[Tony Davis]

Isn't Mel's boat petrol?

[Cookee]

No he's got a new "Cardinal Sin" - it's a feck off big diesel like puddifoots!

[Louise]

Well done, Cookee! Great news. :cheers:

[Carl]

a month of racing every weekend ,you must be knackered cookee:snooz:

[Cyco]

Cookee
Is exmouth this weekend coming!
What time does it start, is it both days.

Cyco

[Cookee]

Originally posted by carly baby
a month of racing every weekend ,you must be knackered cookee:snooz:

Thanks for your concern Carly! Actually wev'e had a break between Torquay and Ramsgate, and we're not going to the Littlehampton race as it's only a basic for the Ribs. It's actually more about time and logistics - I'm working up on the Isle of Man for a bit on a film so I don't think I could go unless I flew down for the day anyway!

The times for the Exmouth race are:

26/6/04

Start for F1 and F2 RIBs - 13.00

Start for the basic fleet - 13.10

Boat parade complete with monster water pistols 18.00

Huge great big party 20.00

27/06/04

Poker Run


Hope that helps anyone that is thinking of going - Oh yeah if you're thinking of watching the race - it's going from Exmouth to the Eddystone lighthouse off Plymouth and back - 104 miles!

[Petrol Head]

I saw Teryy Mills (V3) engine in the Marina workshop. After only 18 hours its beyond recovery. Broken rods laid in the pan beside a collection of shreddedshells . Looking up under the block from underneath you could see a rod had stopped the rotation for the last time and bought the thing to a standstill by getting jammed between the crank and a main cap. The timing chain cover has been ripped open as the crank needed to move forward a wee bit to let that rod in. Paul (Terrys son) said that as the boat got caught up in a corner on sunday . The lower exhaust tip went under and the engine back filled with sea water.

Some good pics...

http://www.keith-slater.co.uk/slideshows.htm

[Tony Davis]

Originally posted by Petrol Head
the boat got caught up in a corner on sunday . The lower exhaust tip went under and the engine back filled with sea water.



Sounds like someone's imagination is getting the better of them, unless they were reversing round the corner when it happened! :drain: :drain: :drain:

[Petrol Head]

Well I'm impressed Sir!:worthy:

[Cookee]

Kitten and I were wondering how you could get enough water up past the exhaust gases to break a conrod as well!

Even if he spun it and stalled it - got water up the exhaust (and they are quite high) it just wouldn't start again.

My money is on an engine fault or too much right foot!

[DIESEL DIGGLER]

Oil maybe (lack of it):jaw:

[jackeen's Missus]

Originally posted by Cookee

We were very pleased to be first petrol boat home and are looking forward to the 104 mile race at Exmouth next weekend!

Well done Cooks and team. (sorry didn't see this till now)

Great result...great pics too...

Missus :banana: :seaman:

[Tony Davis]

Originally posted by DIESEL DIGGLER
Oil maybe (lack of it):jaw:

Sounds more likely!!!

Damaged oil pipe or just forgot to screw the filter on properly?:D

[Petrol Head]

Or perhaps the dipstick jumped out.. Right!.:drain:

Nothing quite like being open minded is there!:well:

There was no overheating of the components, the melt down you get with a total sudden oil failure. There were just clean cold snaps from components being massiviely overloaded.The shells from the broken rods, just mashed and the soft metal linings not burnt out.

So what was it then?

[Jon Fuller]

How did it get from 'Hydraulicing', to a heap of broken components without generating any heat? to mash the shells, move the crank and all the other damage explained, it must have run for at least a short time after the 'alleged' incident, the forces involved in that would surely have caused some heat.

[Petrol Head]

Theres no sign of abnormal heat.

IMHO, to coin a phrase; this happened very swiftly with forces that overtook the strength of the parts with ease.

You can see, some smashed parts got in the way of the others to stop the rotation. There s a rod wedged between the crank journal throwypoo and the block. The engine was forced to stop, not ground to a halt by friction overcoming the power output.

[Jon Fuller]

The word on the street is, the oil filter head broke away from the normal mounting place on the battery box, and the flexible hoses between it and the block adaptor got itself worn through on a moving part.

The oil filter-head assy has broken loose on a few V24's

[Petrol Head]

Choice! :well:

Everyone, who saw the oil in the bert on sunday came to the same conclusions. That saturday had caused sunday.

But, you cant see the oles in the block, in the sump, in the chain case until you pull it out. You cant see the stretched crank until you pull it out.

The saturday,oil filter gets pin-oled near the end of the race the the filter mount snaps off. A LITTLE oil makes a BIG mess in the new bert.

Sunday,the starboard wing rises into the air. You insticively wind the motor down and, with both hands, find yerself reaching for the mask and the door pins. In comes the water, up the pipey poo.

Shortly after the forced submergance, the once harmonious reciprocating parts, try to get out ,everwhere they can.

Out of the Block, out through the sump-oles, the chaincase.

SUMP-OLES??:aaahhh: Yes cheese grater holes.

All of the oil is going to be in ther bert .:eek:

Not a bearing anywhere got hot as of saturday or sundays oil loss.

[Jon Fuller]

Was the engine running throughout this misshap? ie, did it at any point cut out.

[Petrol Head]

I'm not sure.

[Jon Fuller]

We could speculate forever, but I think it's extremely unlikely it hydrauliced if it kept running throughout the 'spin', or whatever happened on that turn, it would be so hard to get any vasser oop 't' pipe whilst morta wer still alive like.

[Petrol Head]

If I see Terry I'll ask abou the restart.

The importance of this to other V24 racers would be to find out whether the submerging caused the engine failure, or not.

Because IF you can stuff your motor as the direct result of putting the boat down into the water this way, (running or stopped) then theres alot to consider.

It always important to keep an open mind and let the facts make the case. Problem is; I am probably holding back the bits of evidence you want, without even thinking about it. Because I have used them and come to my conlcusions. I am no longer that open minded.

I spent the day with Cronky at the F.O.S, we talked about it now and then. He's the one who stripped the thing so far. I didn't look at the cam bearings but he said that all are totally unmarked.
The devistation without any trace of heat where it shouldn't be, the clean bearings including cam, no abnormal wear, means to me, it died quickly. The bits breaking out every where shows the chaotic force spreading out in shock waves.

Adrian was saying that three of the four pots damaged were on the same side as the dipping and the one on the other side was damaged as a result of the others, I didn't check through that stuff, its not my business.

[Jon Fuller]

Fair enough, let's hope whatever caused the devistation on Terry's boat doesn't visit too many others, it's an expensive game racing!

[Petrol Head]

Colin a mate at the marina said that water was found in the manifolds when they took them off over lunch today.

A.C confirmed this later.

I went and had a look in the heads.

Sure enough the port head, 3rd pot back, has a cleaned out port that is now rusting away, none of the others are in this state they are just lightly sooted.

[Dirk Diggler]

Is it not a possibillity that the water entered the engine after the damage had been done. If the motor spewed it's guts during the race, then surely water could have gone up the exhaust whilst waiting or during the tow back to the marina. I would say thats it's highly unlikely that it would have entered whilst the motor was running!!!!

All IMHO of course./

[Petrol Head]

Could have couldnt it.

The way the water / rust marks are in this Ex. port make it look as though water / some fluid went out at speed. Like streaks up a visor or windscreen. Its washed / eaten the soot off as its come out and left a P.H. balance that started the Casting to corrode in no time at all. Thats only in one pot though. The rod on that pot is the one that stopped the rotation, its stuck in between the journal and the block wall.

Two others snapped clean off . This Rod couldnt have hit them, its still in place. but the forward stretching of the crank may have knackered them. The way the gudgeon pins have been torn from the pistons indicates (to me) the diagonal movement forwards.

[Jon Fuller]

Any idea what the bores look like? (don't say 'round'!)

[Petrol Head]

Of cylindrical origin.

Everything in the crankase region is lightly oiled.

I dont know that it will get pulled down any more for now, but shall keep an ear out for where it goes next.

[DIESEL DIGGLER]

ear to the ground rumors are that V3 had an alledged incident on the first lap which i believe is the one mentioned above, yet the boat went on for another 5 laps at least before it stopped, was there more dippings? or riser gasket failure which is also a popular prob.and would cause streaming like on a windshield and with a rough race like that there would have been lots of on off with the noisey pedal poss sucking back down the exhaust with the negetive off load compressions.:up:

or just trying too hard to catch the ginger boat:laugh:

[Jon Fuller]

Originally posted by DIESEL DIGGLER
riser gasket failure which is also a popular prob.

What would one expect without a flexible link in the exhaust tween manifold and exit point through the deck on an exhaust that's 3' long or more!...summat's gotta give.....elementry engineering

[DIESEL DIGGLER]

Quite clearly if you prepair the boat correctly you should notice a smaller prob before it becomes a huge prob , several boats running this and last year have not had any leaking header gaskets . :shag:

[Jon Fuller]

Mmmnnn, interesting, but fixing a problem when it occurs, repeatedly, is foolish, when you could fix the reason it's occuring 'once'...Or even better, do it right in the first place, and not 'fix' anything.......all IMHO

As for the 'incident', if it ran for another 5 laps before stoping, I rest my case.