Cowes Classic 04

[Ben]

The 'Mr. Noisy' team received a great deal of assistance from a number of people at Cowes but I would like to especially express my appreciation to Johnson and Matt who diagnosed and fixed our engine problems before the race which allowed us to be ultra competitive in our class and post race which allowed us to get back to the Hamble on two engines.

It's doubtful in other sports that you would find people who end up upside down in engine compartments with legs up in the air or straddling engines to check firing order just to help a fellow powerboater.

Johnson and Matt, my hat is off to you and I can't thank you enough.

[Jono]

Originally posted by Ned
who end up upside down in engine compartments with legs up in the air or straddling engines to check firing order just to help a fellow powerboater.



...just 'cause they're a pair of nosey fecka's really! Can't keep their beaks out.....try locking your engine lid.. that oughta stop the nobbas...:D

[Slacko]

I visited Cowes yesterday hoping to see raceboats and competitors, I can't believe how dire the sport has become.

What has happened to make the sport so poor, both in attendance and accessibility. It was only a year or so ago that you could walk round the pits to look at 70+ boats of various shapes and sizes. I would have to say that it's no longer as interesting as walking round Baiter slip on a Sunday afternoon.

Surely it's time for heads to roll at the RYA, UKOBA, ORDA etc.

[bert]

i have to agree i used to go as a kid with my dad and also most prevous years this year went on sat afternoon as boat is in pieces and could not believe what a small event it has now become i know they didn`t have a sponsor this year but was still a little dissapointed

[nobwaver]

I agree with you it was a very sad sight at the weekend.

They had a very good sponsor last year but blew all chance of having them again by the way they were treated.

Having talked to various people there it would appear that the Cowes organising comittee dont want small boats there.

Large noisey ones with grey haired old men in are fine. Not.:asshole:

[Ben]

Large noisey ones with grey haired old men in are fine. Not.:asshole:

Sounds like us as we could be considered largeish and certainly not quiet. Sorry if we caused any offence.

[Ben]

As well as old and grey haired.

[Jon Fuller]

Does this mean Fabio isn't welcome either? :aaahhh: :worthy: :bolt:

All classes, ages, hair colours and persuasions should be welcomed.

[bert]

everyone of course should be welcome but my fondest memerories were when the place was heaving almost as busy as fireworks night even the podium was held somewhere else and public were not allowed in but do agree to sum extent that the majority of people were older not many young people seemed to be involded in it which can only be bad for the sport

[Ben]

Originally posted by Slacko
I visited Cowes yesterday hoping to see raceboats and competitors, I can't believe how dire the sport has become.

What has happened to make the sport so poor, both in attendance and accessibility. It was only a year or so ago that you could walk round the pits to look at 70+ boats of various shapes and sizes. I would have to say that it's no longer as interesting as walking round Baiter slip on a Sunday afternoon.

Surely it's time for heads to roll at the RYA, UKOBA, ORDA etc.

I'm afraid that the only solution is to demand your money back for your admission ticket.

[Adam]

Originally posted by Slacko
.

Surely it's time for heads to roll at the RYA, UKOBA, ORDA etc.

Don't quite know how ORDA gets the blame for Cowes?

True things could be a lot better - and we do need more racers. Also could do with more people helping out on committees as we all give up our time for 'the love of it' as it is.

Seriously - anyone who thinks they could do better and is willing to put the time and effort in - let me know! We could have space for you at ORDA!

Adam

[bert]

why has it happened ,why is it going down hill, cowes used be such a big event and if you do it for love why is there no money in the sport anymore

[Ben]

Originally posted by Adam
Don't quite know how ORDA gets the blame for Cowes?

True things could be a lot better - and we do need more racers. Also could do with more people helping out on committees as we all give up our time for 'the love of it' as it is.

Seriously - anyone who thinks they could do better and is willing to put the time and effort in - let me know! We could have space for you at ORDA!

Adam

On behalf of UKOBA, I heartily second Adam's comments and also extend the invitation for unpaid volunteers (which is what we all are).

[Carl]

Originally posted by bert
why has it happened ,why is it going down hill, cowes used be such a big event and if you do it for love why is there no money in the sport anymore i dont think there was ever any money in it,i guess in the early days people raced to sell there product

[infoasitappens]

There was money for Cowes last year, it had a very large and reputable sponsor. They dont sponsor it any more.

They have got the message that smaller boats are not welcome at the event.

If so there would have been some representation in the programme for the class 3 boats entered, which apart from V24 was the largest class there.

There are alot of people having ago at the sport at the moment saying how poor the entries are etc, most of these people are not active racers, so why not do something about it youselves, get a boat and race it.

Well done to those people who did turn up and race.

[Slacko]

Originally posted by Adam
Don't quite know how ORDA gets the blame for Cowes?

True things could be a lot better - and we do need more racers. Also could do with more people helping out on committees as we all give up our time for 'the love of it' as it is.

Seriously - anyone who thinks they could do better and is willing to put the time and effort in - let me know! We could have space for you at ORDA!

Adam

Oh dear,sorry to tread on your toes Adam. But your reply is to be expected, why is it when criticised the natural response is "if you think you could do any better" . Is this an admission of one inability to do their job.

I wasn't actually holding ORDA (which I imagine you are involved in) directly responsible for Cowes, but as the "official" club for drivers it would be nice if they had managed to drum up a bit more support for the event.

My main criticism for Cowes would be aimed at the old fossils of the British whatever they call themselves powerboat club or something, Lord (one race a year) Normanton and the like, who incidentally never ever gets seen at any other event in the year, other than Plymouth coz the boats are big and noisy and some old duffer might recognise him. Many competitors commented to me at the event as to how unwelcome they had been made to feel. The organizers seem to make it quite clear thattheir not interested in "silly little boats" whilst bleeding the "silly little boat owners" dry.I would also hold the RYA part to blame, why do they need a Race Manager and assistant and assistants gopher etc for a handful of licence holders. Isn't it time they stepped down from the job and handed it over to an association that could actually offer something for the money.

I did hear that a few people at the RYA aren't happy with the manager's performance, seems he spends a lot of time out of the office on "secret" business. Apparently the previous guy wasn't much cop either, but at least they knew where he was.

And to answer "neds" point about refunding my admission, I get your point but to be quite honest, if you charged admission for what was put on, you'd have had a very empty auditorium.

I may not have paid to get in, but I along with many others gave up a day or more of our time, together with transport costs, ferry crossings etc to come to what had been described as a "5 day powerboat event", now I realise that they can't arrange the weather, but it wouild have been nice to walk round the pits and look at more than a handful of boats.

No doubt you'll have loads to say in your reply, but probably very little in suggestions.:mad:

[Tony Davis]

Originally posted by Matt
Lets all take a couple of calm, deep breaths and not get personal or I'll have to start chopping posts,.......

It seems everyone is in agreement that some organisational changes wouldn't go amiss, but getting personal against Ned and Adam is uncalled for.

It's easy to stand at the sidelines and criticise......

Has anyone actually asked Honda what it would take to get their sponsorship back? Someone give me the boss man's no. and I'll ask him myself....

I didn't read the "slacko's" post that way, and I'd have to agree with some of the points made. I don't think any of the criticsm's were directly aimed at Adam or Ned.

The sideline is only available to the majority, but having been at many meetings of the ORC in years gone by, you get just as much response, ie, none.

As for calling the bossman at Honda, not really your job, but he's Martin Sanders 01753 590259, mention my name, he really like me!!!!!! :hugegrin:

[Tony Davis]

A little story.

A few years ago, when both JF and I were involved in "the sport" as competitors, I had a stint of "Touring Class Representative" on the ORC. I can honestly say that it was the final nail in the coffin for me as both a competitor and rep.

I went to several meeting where I honestly believe that all the decisions that were supposedly going to be made at the meeting had already been discussed and decided upon by the select few!!

To give an example of how infuriating the whole committee meeting would be, I use this little tale.

We sat for an hour and a half, possibly 2 hours discussing item 1 of the agenda, the fact that the RYA's racing coffers were very depleted, and were asked for suggestions on how to raise a couple of extra thousand over the next 2 seasons. After lots of head scratching, going round in circles and general waffling, it was decided that licences fees would be increased by a couple of quid, together with measurement certificates and a few other items. This would over the next couple of seasons raise an extra few thousand for the RYA.

Item 2, bearing in mind we'd spent ages looking for 2K.

TV coverage for a race, some halfwit who shall remain nameless, (I'll gladly PM it) gave a lovely speech about all the hard work he had put in to secure a slot on possibly Meridian tv. He told us how he'd worked on this for weeks, might even have been months, but he hadn't wasted his time coz they had agreed to show the sport in all it's glory on prime time tv, and all we as competitors, organisers etc had to do was to pay them something like £125k, thats "one hundred and twenty five thousand pounds"

After this I started to realise that something was lacking in some of the committee.

[Jono]

Originally posted by Matt
Lets all take a couple of calm, deep breaths or I'll have to start chopping posts, which I don't want to have to do.



Nah... feck off! Let 'em slug it out! I could do with the entertainment..:duell:

[nobwaver]

Originally posted by Tony Davis
I didn't read the "slacko's" post that way, and I'd have to agree with some of the points made. I don't think any of the criticsm's were directly aimed at Adam or Ned.

The sideline is only available to the majority, but having been at many meetings of the ORC in years gone by, you get just as much response, ie, none.

As for calling the bossman at Honda, not really your job, but he's Martin Sanders 01753 590259, mention my name, he really like me!!!!!! :hugegrin:

I should think :-

"Theres no room in the pits for your Honda boats, they will have to arrive by water"

might have something to do with it!!!!!!

Ned Ive nothing against noisy boats or men with grey hair, just the persons who ONLY want that combination at Cowes, they are the people who are killing Cowes.

"not" was a reference to one of those persons.

[Cookee]

Zapcats and to a slightly lesser amount V24, are like Formula 1 cars and rallying run as a dictatorship - not run by 3/4 different clubs and a toothless governing body.

IMHO the only way the sport will ever succeed is for it to be organised by one body / person who has an interest in how it turns out.

It was pointed out to me that people go to meetings, travelling miles and miles to organise 1 or 2 races a season, surely if they were organising all the races thier time would be better spent and 4/5 different committeess weren't discussing the same issues?

So many of the races aren't even promoted locally so that even the locals are suprised when a bunch of powerboats turn up, but looking at zapcats, they arrive with drums banging and flags waving - so it can be done!

[Louise]

Originally posted by Cookee
Zapcats and to a slightly lesser amount V24, are like Formula 1 cars and rallying run as a dictatorship - not run by 3/4 different clubs and a toothless governing body.


This is probably not very relevant but I'd be interested to know how this situation (3/4 different clubs organising the events) evolved and whether Cookee's idea has ever been seriously considered. I guess the difficulty would be in getting the clubs to agree which of them should take on the sole responsibility. Would they all fight over it or all try to walk away, I wonder? :confused:

[Cookee]

I believe UKOBA tried to do something this year, and they now organise Hondas races for them but the clubs all want to be in charge is what I've been told - true or not I believe it is unlikely to happen unless there is a crisis situation.

[Tony Davis]

Originally posted by Cookee
IMHO the only way the sport will ever succeed is for it to be organised by one body / person who has an interest in how it turns out.

It was pointed out to me that people go to meetings, travelling miles and miles to organise 1 or 2 races a season, surely if they were organising all the races thier time would be better spent and 4/5 different committeess weren't discussing the same issues?



The only problem with that is you would need to employ someone/a group of people to do the whole job, as it would be far to time consuming for a volunteer.

It used to be done that way by UKOBA back in the 90's with Iain Stewart-Ross, and we had some excellent racing, but with the lack of entries and competitors, where would the money come from to pay for it. Obviously a series sponsor is whats needed, but I can't see that happening as what has the sport got to offer!

Bit of a chicken and egg situation. What does suprise me is how almost all forms of motor sport are so well supported, with the exception of Powerboat Racing.

I still think that the biggest problem in our sport is the governing body, when we launched the Honda series in 99 I desperately tried to steer them away from being involved with the RYA, but the head honco at Honda liked the Royal part, and was brainwashed into believing that without them it couldn't happen!

My honest opinion was that they were only interested in licence fees, even tried to charge a measurement fee, (didn't pay that one as it was a "one design" out of one mould so they'd all be the same length)

And then look at Rib racing, they had enormous entries for their club races and then they get sucked up by the RYA and they're fckd.

I don't know what the answer is, but I've a pretty good idea wot it aint!!!

[Louise]

Please forgive me if I'm being naive, but couldn't each club take responsibility for one of the classes of racing? Or is that entirely unworkable? Sorry if that's a stupid question! :rolleyes:

[Louise]

Originally posted by Tony Davis
What does suprise me is how almost all forms of motor sport are so well supported, with the exception of Powerboat Racing.


Surely this is because the vast majority of adults own a car or at least can drive (and a proportion of them will be enthusiastic enough to want to watch it as a sport) whereas only a very small minority own/drive boats? The number of boat owners/drivers who will want to follow the sport of powerboat racing becomes a tiny one. :(

[Tony Davis]

No, it wouldn't work. Powerboat racing is unique in that each race often has 6 or more classes running at the same time, with the same rolling start and finish.

It's one of the things that make it so difficult to explain to the holiday maker who happens to be on the beach when it's happening.

Another problem would be that there are so few entries that you quite often get only 1 or 2 boats in a class.

[Louise]

Originally posted by Tony Davis
Powerboat racing is unique in that each race often has 6 or more classes running at the same time, with the same rolling start and finish.

It's one of the things that make it so difficult to explain to the holiday maker who happens to be on the beach when it's happening.

Another problem would be that there are so few entries that you quite often get only 1 or 2 boats in a class.

But maybe these aspects are part of the problem? Why can't the races be run separately? How can there be a race if there is only one boat in a class? It's not just the poor tourists who get confused - at the Torquay racing earlier this year, even the commentator couldn't keep track of what was going on!

Once again, apologies...:bang:

[Tony Davis]

Originally posted by Mrs Nobber
Surely this is because the vast majority of adults own a car or at least can drive whereas only a very small minority own/drive boats?

Almost certainly, but take a ride round the country and count the amount of "motor" powered boats in marinas etc, and you realise that there's an awful lot of people who could be attracted, but aren't.

A possible solution would be to have a "club house" situated in say the Solent area, and organise club racing at a weekend or in the evening. This has proved very popular at the RM. Again the problem of funding arises, so we need a rich bloke like Jono to put his hand in his pocket and buy us a property, beach front location, big slipway and a bar licence!!!!!:D :D

One of the guys who works for me is into sailing, he races on a tues and weds night, and some weekends in R19's (dunno what it is, but it's probably 19' long). It's club racing in Poole Harbour, and most events around 100 people turn out to compete or do safety!!!

[Tony Davis]

Originally posted by Mrs Nobber
Why can't the races be run separately?

Most races last around an hour, so six races = 6 hours...

Major problems would be tides, disruption of sail boat racing, BOREDOM, getting safety fleet to stay out that long, etc, etc, etc.

[Louise]

You're right about the chicken and egg! Why would a clubhouse etc be necessary, though? Yes, it would be nice and might persuade a few people who otherwise wouldn't leave their cosy homes, but to start with surely just a few enthusiastic people with boats are needed?

How are things done in other countries (especially the US)? Are there any lessons to be learned there?

P.S. I know absolutely nothing about British powerboat racing and even less about US powerboat racing so please don't beat me up too much!!

[Louise]

Originally posted by Tony Davis
Most races last around an hour, so six races = 6 hours...

Major problems would be tides, disruption of sail boat racing, BOREDOM, getting safety fleet to stay out that long, etc, etc, etc.

OK so how can the boats be better distinguished from one another or the races be made easier for spectators to follow? A simple answer would be all boats of a certain class to be painted a certain colour but I can't see the likes of Carly Baby and Cookee wanting to go down that road (or passage, if you prefer :D)! A good commentator would be a start - someone who actually knows about the boats s/he is talking about. Maybe boards placed at popular spectator points which enable the boats and their classes to be identified? There could also be printed fliers with these kinds of details. I know, it all costs money! But it needn't cost much to begin with (limit the number of boards and fliers). Any other thoughts, anyone, or shall I just go away now...:(

[Tony Davis]

Originally posted by Mrs Nobber
Why would a clubhouse etc be necessary, though?

Loads of reasons, somewhere to meet, get pissed, talk bollix, get pissed, get changed, pre race briefings, get pissed, prize giving, the list goes on & on....

Did I mention getting pissed.

The racing me mate does in Poole is organised by his yacht club, a members club jointly owned by the members. A large part of it's revenue comes from its dining and drinking facilities!

[Tony Davis]

Originally posted by Mrs Nobber
or shall I just go away now...:(

No, not at all, all input is most welcome. The colour thing would be a problem, boats that have sponsorship have corporate colours, logos etc. The commentator bit is always a problem, the only people with the knowledge aren't always public speakers.

The Americans are suffering the same as us, but to a lesser extent due to the enormous amount of people in the country.

The one thing they have done is move the course inshore, and have multiple laps up and down the beach.

[Louise]

Yeah, and a clubhouse would be a nice luxury to get at some time in the future but it is just that - a luxury! In the meantime, surely the local pub will do for "somewhere to meet, get pissed, talk bollix, get pissed, get changed, pre race briefings, get pissed, prize giving"? OK, so maybe not the getting changed bit but you get my point? A tent will do as a changing room!

The Poole racing - this could happen at other yacht clubs, surely? Has anyone approached any of the Solent based YCs? Or could the Poole races be expanded?

[Louise]

Originally posted by Tony Davis
The commentator bit is always a problem, the only people with the knowledge aren't always public speakers.

There must be someone out there??? Does one commentator travel to all the venues or are there different commentators at each venue?

The one thing they have done is move the course inshore, and have multiple laps up and down the beach.

Is this the answer for the UK? It seems a shame not to have the longer distance races (part of powerboat racing heritage, and all that) and I guess most if not all the racers enjoy the long stretches but maybe in the short term 'beach lap' races would help to get more of the public interested, then longer term the longer races could be reintroduced?

How well (if at all) do the national newspapers cover powerboat racing? And the TV stations? Why don't we see charter boats taking people out to watch the races?

[Tony Davis]

Originally posted by Mrs Nobber
?

How well (if at all) do the national newspapers cover powerboat racing? And the TV stations? Why don't we see charter boats taking people out to watch the races?

I've taken the day off to do me vat, tidy me office, clean me truck. Well not entirely true as my wife in Scotland and she said I've got to walk the dogs, feed the horses, hoover, clean the windows etc, but I'm having fun and you ask intelligent questions, something that is lacking at the AGM.

It was once said by Chris Lewis that tonights AGM will be a good one, Max is going to ask some "probing" questions, Max said F all!!! But anyway, I'm going a bit off track....

You very rarely see any coverage in National news papers, used to read a bit in the Mail when they were a sponsor, and the Telegraph used to print results on a Monday.

Local papers do their bit if someone can be bothered to tell them, perhaps we need a press officer.

Cowes event had one, didn't read much about that!

[Cookee]

It is often the same guy that comentates.

We offered a spectator boat for a couple of races but it requires comitment and when races are cancelled, the information on race times etc arrive sometimes the week of the race (I once returned after a race weekend to find information in my letterbox) it is an uphill battle I was unwilling to carry on with.

As with any event of this sort advance planning and the disemination of information is key to success.

We have managed to get some local news stations to cover us in the past but the clout of a big orgainsation like the RYA are needed to get more coverage.

Companies like Fastrax need paying if they are to cover events such as ours because they can't recover all of thier costs otherwise!

[Louise]

Originally posted by Tony Davis
I've taken the day off to do me vat, tidy me office, clean me truck.

Oops! Sorry. I'll shut up in a minute!

What about getting into schools and getting kids fired up about it. They'll then persuade their parents that they really HAVE to go and watch a race...

Do any of the racers do anything like that? I know schools are usually very glad to have volunteers who will go in and talk in assembly or take part in a special event or whatever. Not everyone's cup of tea and, of course, it may interefere a little with the working day but most racers can be a bit flexible, I'd have thought? And what kid wouldn't like the chance to sit in a race boat and talk to a real racing driver?

Also, I don't remember there being much of a 'racing presence' at LBS in December. If every racing team did a stint, each team would only need to cover half a day at most. Videos could run of past races, next year's dates publicised, a race boat on show for people to have a look at, info on how to get involved, etc.

Sorry if these ideas have already been tried!

[Louise]

Originally posted by Cookee
It is often the same guy that comentates.

If it's the one who did Torquay, he didn't seem very knowledgeable (sorry if he's reading this). I don't know whether he just doesn't know much about the racing, or whether he hadn't been briefed very well, or whether he was finding it difficult to listen to his radio and talk at the same time...even Richard and I knew more about who was racing and in what class! He seemed to be just trying to relay what he was hearing from other people, prsumably further along the course. He didn't give any 'additional info' as they do on, say Formula 1, when the commentator has facts and figures about the car, driver, track, previous races, championship points, etc.

We offered a spectator boat for a couple of races but it requires comitment and when races are cancelled, the information on race times etc arrive sometimes the week of the race

How do the yotties get on with this? They seem to have charter boats out for spectators.

[Ben]

Originally posted by nobwaver
I should think :-

"Theres no room in the pits for your Honda boats, they will have to arrive by water"

might have something to do with it!!!!!!

Ned Ive nothing against noisy boats or men with grey hair, just the persons who ONLY want that combination at Cowes, they are the people who are killing Cowes.

"not" was a reference to one of those persons.

Sorry, I misunderstood. I think I'm becoming a bit thin-skinned in my 'dotage'.;)

[Tony Davis]

The "kiddies" class is up and running with great success at the RM in Poole. It's also travelling round the country to different venues.

The RYA Powerboat Racing stand at the LBS last year was pretty good, it's just a shame that it was the RYA.

Once you read the list of costings from them to put a boat on the water you realise the money could be better spent. It's hard justifying the costs to the family for an hours enjoyment/torture half a dozen times a year.

What with Licences, medicals, measurement certificate, entry fees etc your fckd before you start.

The first season with Honda was good, the purchase of the boat included all the fees as well, (Honda covered them) and the winner won a car! Don't know how it's done now as I'm not involved.

[Tony Davis]

Ned, you've had the misfortune to have your head on the chopping block on a few occassions, what are your thoughts?

[Louise]

Originally posted by Tony Davis
The "kiddies" class is up and running with great success at the RM in Poole. It's also travelling round the country to different venues.

So if Poole can get it right (with kids' and adults' races), why can't this be applied to the rest of racing?

The RYA Powerboat Racing stand at the LBS last year was pretty good, it's just a shame that it was the RYA.

I spent a day at LBS last year and didn't see anything about racing - if you only find it if you're looking for it, surely it isn't being publicised enough? I would have liked to see a race boat on the water, maybe even giving rides, as was done at RIBEX this year.

Once you read the list of costings from them to put a boat on the water you realise the money could be better spent. It's hard justifying the costs to the family for an hours enjoyment/torture half a dozen times a year.

Is there a way round this? What about some form of co-ownership? Race horses are often owned by a syndicate so why not race boats? I know race boats can't breed so that source of income from the investment is not available but surely, if it was marketed well, having a share in a race boat could be a similar kind of 'status symbol'. I know businesses already sponsor race boats, but I'm talking about individuals. Obviously the race teams would need to offer something in return - rides in the boat (non-racing!), clothing items, naming the boat after the main sponsor, etc. Anyone tried this?

[Louise]

You all thought I'd shut up, didn't you...?

Just a couple more thoughts and then I will:

1. How much 'self-publicity' do racers do? I know it's yet another drain on their time but... My parents (and Dad loves boats and has owned little displacement boats virtually all his adult life) live in South Devon (the home of Bananashark Racing for those who don't know) and yet they did not know that a powerboat racing team was based just a couple of miles down the road! I'm sorry to use you as an example, Cookee, but it's the only one I can use!

2. How can 'celebrities' be persuaded to join in? As our society seems to be obsessed by all things to do with 'stars', perhaps they could be encouraged to take up powerboat racing? Ones who spring to mind: Richard Branson (did a stunt with an 'aquacar' not long ago); Eddie Irvine (ex-F1 driver - loves speed and boats); David Beckham??? (Well, if he got into powerboat racing, everyone else would have to as well!!!)

OK. My lips are sealed and my fingers are tied together!

[Dirk Diggler]

Originally posted by Mrs Nobber
You all thought I'd shut up, didn't you...?



Richard Branson (did a stunt with an 'aquacar' not long ago); Eddie Irvine (ex-F1 driver - loves speed and boats); David Beckham??? !

Richard Branson's Virgin group of companies sponsored the Cowes race in 86, don't remember if he continued after that but I imagine that someone who is as "publicity hungry" as him would be very unlikely to sponsor it again.

The likes of David Beckham wouldn't be allowed to due to contractual problems and the risk of injury.

[Louise]

Originally posted by Dirk Diggler
The likes of David Beckham wouldn't be allowed to due to contractual problems and the risk of injury.

Maybe when he's retired from football - if he's not too busy commentating, or managing or a being a chat show host or whatever!!!

Anyone got any thoughts about the other points I raised? :)

And what about advertising racing? Don't remember ever seeing anything at the yard where we keep our boat for example (which shall remain nameless as Ice Kiddie worries about security if that kind of info is broadcast on the 'net!)

[Dirk Diggler]

Originally posted by Mrs Nobber


1. How much 'self-publicity' do racers do?

With a few exception none what so ever. Cookee obviously does his bit, needs to win a race occasionally though.:D :D

Shelly Jory over at Honda does loads, always in the local Southampton paper, Tom Crump and the lovely Vicki get quite a bit in Bournemouth, just a shame it's nearly all untrue.

It seems most teams can't even be arsed to fill in a profile, but maybe past experience has shown it's a waste of time.

Ross Nott used to do some PR work for the sport, but she's now involved with the sick, lame & lazy at Cowes.

[bert]

going back to the bit about people critisizing and standing on the side lines i looked into going in to basic racing cost me 1k to get the boat through all regs which is saftey so fair enough but saw carly thread about costing him £750 just to do one race at basic level
why cant basic mean basic like what drivers wharf do on poker run day cost £50 for boat £20 for passenger and you get champayne breakfast lunch in cowes and full buffet in evening with entertainment and race around all day aswell as having saftey boats and the proceeds go to charity and with a good turn out if they can do it and make money for charity why can`t rya or whoever is in charge do it
if the race is going on anyway why not have basic race that is cheap enough for normal people with small boats who just want to have fun that is what it is what it is meant to be all about anyway isn`t it there is enough people on here with fast boats that if only cost £70 / race would do it
and with more people going could charge £5 for public to sea racing or pits
or am i just being niave

[Ben]

Originally posted by Tony Davis
Ned, you've had the misfortune to have your head on the chopping block on a few occassions, what are your thoughts?

Please allow me the luxury of negativity to begin.

I am certainly no apologist for the RYA's Powerboat Racing Division, but even if it did its very best to promote the 'sport', it must be remembered that it is the Royal YACHTING Assoc. We are tolerated at best. The next paragraph is from one of my earlier posts. Sorry to repeat myself.

"The RYA has increased calendar fees to the organising clubs (which are in turn passed on to the competitors) at an alarming rate whilst insisting that nationally registered boats must be re-measured yearly, a revenue producing measure if there ever was one but this initiative is of no benefit to the competitor. The money is collected, secreted away and gone forever but then again, I'm sure it benefits some sailing programme somewhere."

The following is from my resignation letter to a powerboat club that I have been associated with for some time. It was written in August 03 but not sent.

"What benefit is derived from association with the RYA? The obvious answers are affiliation with the UIM and some forlorn notion of legitimacy. Surely, with the number of offshore craft racing in the UK we should be dictating to them, not the reverse. According to PB1 2003 it will cost the average racer approximately £200 for his or her licence plus £55 to renew a measurement certificate and this outlay of £255. does not even include RYA membership. RYA personal membership is currently £25 - £28 and includes a multitude of benefits (look to their website for a full list). The sailors pay less than £30 and get everything. Offshore racers pay ten times that and we get the powerboat racing manager going to New Zealand to try out jet boats. Oh well, it’s only money (ours) and was probably a fun trip.

The new classes set out by the RYA are interesting. Formula 1, 2, and 3 could be workable. Similar boats of similar power having a good tussle. Formula X however is remarkably ill conceived. Unlimited ribs versus Touring boats. It seems inconceivable that the owner of an Extreme 26 with 425hp would want to go head to head with something like ‘The Big Rib’ (ex Roger Fletcher 40’ Techno with close to 2000 total horsepower) but alas, they are in the same class. Admitedly, I have a vested interest (I spent the better part of a year, 1995. helping to get the Sports/Touring class underway- hundreds of phone calls, mailings, numerous meetings RYA and otherwise and all of this as an unpaid volunteer and at my expense.

We are simultaneously the cash cows and the black sheep of the RYA. A quote from Abraham Lincoln regarding the Confederacy springs to mind, “It’s like holding a wolf by the ears, you don’t like it but you dare not let go”. This is an apt description of how the RYA regards powerboat racing. Get away from the RYA, they are an irrelevance. .

My opinion of Basic Racing (from the same letter)

"It was with great dismay that I read a letter in the June edition of Motor Boat & Yachting that there was to be no basic race in Cowes for 2003. The correspondent had done safety at Cowes for a number of years and had decided to take the plunge and race in 2003. Imagine his disappointment when he was told by the event director that there was to be no basic race as there were “too many boats”.

I played a role in the first Cowes basic race in 1998. Actually my participation after getting the idea from Barry Cass and running it past Tim Powell (whose response thankfully was ‘go for it) was phoning everyone I knew with a fast boat and placing flyers at most marinas on the South Coast. As the phone calls were received, they were collated, race instructions were dispatched. There was no monetary gain in this but I was happy do it. If we could get more newcomers onto the water it had to be a worthwhile endeavour. It was an opportunity for the novice to rub shoulders with the ‘big boys’, to experience the glamour and bask in the reflected glory. A number of racers turned up on the day and some continue racing in the Internationally recognised classes today. Perhaps it is no longer of any importance to give ‘the little guy’ his moment of glory. I find this deeply depressing."

Now on a positive note. The way forward IMHO is for powerboat racing/poker runs etc. to be totally dis-associated from the RYA. The main clubs/associations that organise racing in Britain are Allhallows, BIBOA, BPRC, F4SA/UKOBA, ORDA, The Royal Motor and V24 (please forgive me if anyone has been left out). Perhaps it's time for representatives from each of these organisations to meet and try to come to some sort of accord. The UIM might be more than willing to listen and if we don't want UIM recognition and just have national class racing, that might not be a bad thing either.

[Louise]

Originally posted by Ned
Perhaps it's time for representatives from each of these organisations to meet and try to come to some sort of accord.

Wow! Thanks for that very detailed response, Ned.

So who's volunteering to get in touch with all the reps? Perhaps they could be pointed in the direction of this forum, too?

[Louise]

Originally posted by Tony Davis
I'm having fun and you ask intelligent questions

Errr, you do realise I'm a girl, do you? :D

[Adam]

Wow - this thread has got going - or I've been away longer than I thought!

Quite open to criticism at a committee member at ORDA - but also sometimes hopefully get thanked for some things as well.

Loads needs to be done tothe sport and realistically it's not going to change over night. I think the sport really needs some very strong and impartial leadership at the moment, from wherever.

Same time it would be great to get some more positive attitude and actions from people (especially competitors) and a bit less of the moaning / negative talk that we can all get dragged into.

Totally agree that basic racing should be just that and easily affordable. Also National racing should be cheaper - and having sat on the ORC I have been surprised (and very disappointed) at some members opinion on how to make the drivers pay for the sport. (If they have a boat then they can afford this or whatever rise)

As a racer in 3C - would say two litre, but it is not now with the new eng. regs - we have become very fed up with being pushed around and being used. Had a very positive drivers meeting at Cowes and will hopefully lead to some positive action to help the class and lead to better racing. I will start a new thread with more details.

Adam

[Jon Fuller]

Cool!

This thread is exactly what Boatmad is for.

My personal view is, racing at club level, as mentioned earlier in this thread, is the way forward. this could be a great encouragement to any potential newcomers, as it could, and should be far more easy, and cheap, to 'have a go', something that's currently difficult for someone looking in from outside!


JF

[mattyboy]

hi guys i met a lot of you at the weekend,i'm carly baby's navigator,thank to alot of you for being so friendly load shout out to cookie for offering his help at the cowes weekend and i tell ya this whole issue of things could be better has been running through my mind all week,there are so many things we could do to make not just cowes but the whole sport so much better,i've only been in it for three races but already i feel that people who don't have millions of pounds don't count in the racing world,which is a shame coz these's are the people who make the sport,after all everyone has to start somewhere(and i don't know alot of people who have 50k to start racing v24),everyone makes the racing not just the harmsworth boys with there super duper boats,i think the sport need to get away form this elitest attitude and get down to the people who love racing and the whole thing needs to be made more public so everyone can see what is going on in this sport,more sponsors need to sponsor this event the've done it before and i'm so sure that it can be like it was.
adams idea with making the two litre class more know like he said in the race breifing was a really good idea the v24's have it so why shouldn't others follow,we need to put this sport back out there and not keep it locked like the people who have been doing it for so long that they can remember the harmsworth being made,it's not there sport it's for everybody and it's about time we made it great again.

[Captain Chaos]

After my first "proper" time at a race event, these where my observations and thouights:

(1) considerably less boats than i imagined
(2) Lots of seemingly similar classes (i.e why do ribs not race V's hardboats)....surely the rubber-ring mob wouldnt argue considering the obvious advantage they'd all have in ruff seas:booty:
(3) if there were less classes, obviousely the wealthier teams with better newer equipent will have an advantage, but if (for eg) i was the one doing the chasing in a lesser craft....I'd think "cool gotta a top 5 today" in a fleet of 20 boats....as apposed to "cool gotta 3rd today" in a fleet of 5!
(4) It seems the real racers are the person that bowled up with a backdraft + 80/90 yam and gave it large.....didnt he/ she do well???

BUT, my big question!!!

Assuming that the main way of attracting people into the sport is via the basic class..............how much to race???? for say (a) just the cowes event OR (b) a season???

coz it always comes down to 2 things

money?
ease of access?

[Captain Chaos]

Oh yeh......& if i ever get the bottle, I might have a go!

[Cookee]

Originally posted by Ned
The main clubs/associations that organise racing in Britain are Allhallows, BIBOA, BPRC, F4SA/UKOBA, ORDA, The Royal Motor and V24 (please forgive me if anyone has been left out).

Ned - The only club I can think of is OCRDA which is quite a large club in its own right.

I think the deterrant that the RYA has is insurance - The RYA has a large membership thanks to the Yachtie part and as such can get the necessary insurances spread out over a larger number of members.

I actually wonder wether Poker Runs are the future of the sport? It will encourage people with fast boats to meet each other and racers, and the bigger they get the more people they will attract, hopefully then 1 or 2 will filter on through to the racing side?

I know I keep repeating myself (must be old age creaping in!), but 1 organising body for the sport is the only way to go forward in my opinion!

[Tony Davis]

It seems that some of the boating press didn't think much of the event either!

This is a report taken from the "World of Powerboats" website.

FARCICAL HARMSWORTH AWARD

Strong winds and rough seas reduced the three race 2004 Harmsworth Trophy event, part of the Cowes Classic to a short dash from Cowes to Portland Bill and back. That first heat was won by Fabio Buzzi in the 52 foot monohull 'La Gran Argentina' that Buzzi and Argentina's Vice President Danial Sciolli enjoyed much success on the Endurance circuit back in the late 1990's. In those days, the big finned monohull was powered by multiple Seatek diesels but at Cowes the craft arrived with two huge Isotta Francini engines which were said to produce 1300hp each. Obviously with such power at his disposal, Buzzi easily
beat his nearest rival, Austria's Hannes Bohinc into 2nd place with a Buzzi RIB in 3rd place ahead of Harmsworth trustee Lord Normanton in 4th spot aboard his Cigarette 'Premier Crew' powered by twin bi block Chevvy's. Boninc won the 2003 Harmsworth Trophy fair and square in his Nicolini designed 'Wettpunk.com' after three gruelling races in which 'Wettpunk.com' sustained serious damage in the first heat.

However after just one race, Buzzi was awarded the 2004 Harmsworth as races 2 and 3 were cancelled because of the weather. The decision to present the award to Italy after only 30% of the programme had been completed makes a mockery of the Harmsworthy and it's prestigious credability has taken a severe blow.

Bad weather played a large part in making Cowes 2004 a 'damp squib' as only the Round The Island race for Class 3 and V24's was completed.

Hannes Bohinc's Nicolini designed Wettpunk.com won the 2003 Harmsworth Trophy after three gruelling races. The 2004 award was presented to Fabio Buzzi after one short race from Cowes to Portland and back.

[Tony Davis]

Anyone know if Buzzi's boat really is 52' long, coz if it is it's a metre too long to be eligible!!!

Taken from the Cowes 2004 website!

07. TECHNICAL ELIGIBILITY

Eligibility of competing craft shall be as defined in 04.01 above including
the following:

07.01 Hull configuration Monohull

07.02 Length
Minimum 8.5 metres
Maximum 15 metres overall

07.03 Engine Type/s
Inboard petrol, inboard diesel, or outboard engines which are commercially
available for leisure use.

07.04 Maximum Number of Engines for 2004 3-race Championship
Inboard Petrol - 2 plus 1 spare engine or part thereof
Inboard Diesel - 2 plus 1 spare engine or part thereof
Outboard - 4 plus 2 spare engines or parts thereof

[Cookee]

Originally posted by Tony Davis

Bad weather played a large part in making Cowes 2004 a 'damp squib' as only the Round The Island race for Class 3 and V24's was completed.



Clearly myself and the rest of the RIB fleet weren't present for the round the island race as well as the basic fleet (so they left out the Hondas again!) :asshole:

[JBP]

Well, so you know what is happening at the other end, so far there are over 40 kids competing in the KClass events with another 20 in training for next season, again this is run by volunteers, with only running costs charged for training. We have to pay the callender fees too.

Coz kids can hire 'club boats', yes they were bought through investment, for both national series and training the costs down are manageble, but a big sponser would be nice. Kclass have managed to get a TV programme done through channel 5, but this was on more of an education thing and is going out either later this month or early next. That was FREE!

Next year there will be approx. 6 K1000 (16P + 60 4S merc) and 10 'K' (12soucerer + 20 2S merc) covering 3 age groups and probably 50 kids involved, it's hard work but the faces at the end you could never buy. Oh by the way true to the sport the first things taught are Safety, followed by sportsmanship.

[infoasitappens]

can anyone tell me which crew in the Harmsworthy event were yellow carded in race 1 please.

[infoasitappens]

Originally posted by Matt
I believe it was la gran argentina for speeding in the cowes entrance channel.

I believe your right, so how did he win the harmsworthy when a yellow card means DQ

[CB1]

The award of a yellow card in its self is no big deal. It stays on your licence for the following 2 seasons. If you get 3 yellows on licence at anytime it means exclusion for the remainder of that season. A certain welshman is sailing pretty close to the wind with the award of 2 for Cowes!!

[Cookee]

CB1 - Is that how he got away without being dq'd after a collision when it was stated clearly in briefing that any collision would result in both paries being dq'd?

[CB1]

Apparently the 2 in question had a gentlemans agreement over the collision. It was the littlehampton mafia that raised the question of d'q ing the both of them. So they both received yellows. The Druid then threw his toys out and was swiftly givern another one for ungentlemanly conduct!!!! Anybody interested in a V24 and 2 ltr boat????

[Adam]

The results I saw did have them both down as disqualified - but don't know if this was appealed against or not?

[infoasitappens]

I believe it stated in the bulletin issue by the "organisers" that a yellow card meant an instant DQ, or did i read it wrong?

[infoasitappens]

Matt.

You ve sussed it, that makes two of us.

[Mikey]

Prior to the first race, a yellow card or a collision was not a DQ offence, other than for V24 which have their own rules to this effect.

After the first race, they issued a race bulletin in which they stated that certain offences would result in Yellow Cards and/or a DQ

For La Gran Argentina which picked up a Yellow card for speeding inside the 6knot marker, this rule was not yet in place which is the reason they did not get DQ'ed, but had they done it again, they would have been :bang: Confusing!

I think the RYA has plans to introduce a more formal set of rules in PB/1 next year for Yellow cards and DQs, but until then it is down to the event organiser.

Currently, the two V24's in question are definitely DQ'ed

[Adam]

Whilst be no means encouraging contact between race boats it does seem a bit worrying that in such circumstances both crews get automatic yellow cards. Certainly things need to be cleaned up - probably more so in the one design classes, but .....

Can think of so many instances (pretty much every start) where you are totally trusting the other competitors to drive without making mistakes or have a gear failure. So how much space to you have to leave if you totally want to rule out the possibility of contact? Certainly too much for competitive racing.

Just seems like this one has not been thought through fully.

Adam

[Tony Davis]

Originally posted by Mikey

For La Gran Argentina which picked up a Yellow card for speeding inside the 6knot marker, this rule was not yet in place which is the reason they did not get DQ'ed, but had they done it again, they would have been


To use a JF phrase, "and my arse is a banjo".

DQ'ing Buzzi at Cowes is never going to happen whilst you have the "Somerley Yachting Club" organising the event!!

Isn't this the bloke that won the Cowes - Torquay race a few years ago in a boat with one too many motors, (did have Tim Powell on board though) and if WOP is correct, this year his boat was over length!!!

[Cookee]

The other point about DQ'ing both parties in the cae of a collision is that it could possibly be a tactical collision - remember Senna / Prost? Just goes to show how much thought actually goes into all this sort of thing - endless committee meetings and what comes out? Illconcieved pile of tosh!

[nobwaver]

Quite clearly the RYA see this as an excellent way to stop people racing, after all your just a roudy pain in the bum for them, but as long as you keep paying there rediculous fees there prepared to put up with you.

Measurment certs for one design..... I ask you.


SHIP OUT AND LET UKOBA RUN THE WHOLE JOB

[Jon Fuller]

Originally posted by JBP
Oh by the way true to the sport the first things taught are Safety, followed by sportsmanship.

Then, how to bend a motor without trace! :lol:lol: vital knowledge/skills for racing.

[Ben]

Originally posted by nobwaver
Quite clearly the RYA see this as an excellent way to stop people racing, after all your just a roudy pain in the bum for them, but as long as you keep paying there rediculous fees there prepared to put up with you.

Measurment certs for one design..... I ask you.


SHIP OUT AND LET UKOBA RUN THE WHOLE JOB

Whilst I wholeheartedly agree that the RYA is a waste of space, money and time so far as powerboating is concerned, I think that there might be some resentment/resistance if UKOBA alone tried for a power play.

UKOBA was a very powerful club in the mid 80s, early 90s but is perceived to have wasted vast amounts of racer's money. Whether true or not, this is the belief. When I was appointed UKOBA's Event Director in 96, I put the club on a strict austerity budget to try to change this perception but the old rumours still persisted.

Things have changed for the better in the last year or so with Clive Curtis as the new president and Steve being co-opted onto the commitee but I don't think UKOBA/F4SA alone is in a position to become the sanctioning body for British offshore powerboat racing.

As I stated in an earier post, I thing it's time for representatives from all the offshore clubs to get together and try to come up with a suitable alternative to the RYA and then make applications to the UIM.

[Mikey]

Unfortunately, as with so many things "power corrupts" :mad:

This is the reason it shouldn't be run by one club such as UKOBA or BIBOA or even the RYA for that matter but by the racers and organisers themselves. Unfortunatley even tho this was the idea of the ORC (Offshore Racing Committee), there is still way too much politics to make this group effective.

On the collision/DQ rule, even tho V24 has this rule the RYA was NOT planning to implement this for other classes. As you say, way too much scope to destroy racing with a rule like that :eek:

[JBP]

Originally posted by Johnson
Then, how to bend a motor without trace! :lol:lol: vital knowledge/skills for racing.

We'll let them find that out for themselves when they get into some other classes outside of K then!