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View Poll Results: Are 4-stroke outboards 'there' yet?
Yes 4 13.33%
No 8 26.67%
Nearly 4 13.33%
2-Stroke 4 eva! 12 40.00%
An egg-whisk is an eggwhisk is an eggwhisk. Yawn. 1 3.33%
I'm holding out for hydrogen fuel cells! 1 3.33%
Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 25-07-2006, 01:29 PM   #1
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Are 4-Stroke outboards 'there' yet?

As per title:

Do you think that 4-stroke outboards are now a viable alternative to 2-strokes; or do they still have a little way to go yet?

Got to thinking about this 'cause my mate has just replaced his 2-stroke SeaDoo Challenger with a newer 4-stroke one & gained about 20% more top-end & 50% better economy!
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Old 25-07-2006, 02:38 PM   #2
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I love mine - uses hardly any fuel is less noisy (hardly know its on at idle) dosnt smell at low revs - starts first time every time. More torque for pulling skiers / wakeboarders. The Yam dealer said he had never seen a F100 go wrong! Nice

The XR2 stank and smoked, broke down all the time it did sound good when it worked, buts three hours in the Xr2 cost me £70 - 80 in petrol plus the oil. The fourstroke costs me about £15!
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Old 25-07-2006, 03:02 PM   #3
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Gotta be a 2 stroke for me, you can't beat the performance and the sound of a screaming efi sends shivers down my spine.
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Old 25-07-2006, 03:20 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by roofer
Gotta be a 2 stroke for me, you can't beat the performance and the sound of a screaming efi sends shivers down my spine.
Whats the Verado 275 sound like? Any one any experience of this motor on the water?
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Old 25-07-2006, 03:23 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Silversurfer
Whats the Verado 275 sound like? Any one any experience of this motor on the water?
Seen a 250 and its whisper quite.
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Old 25-07-2006, 03:28 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by roofer
Seen a 250 and its whisper quite.
Is it fast has it got any punch? Apart from the noise - can always drill holes if you need too! I loved the sound of the XR2 but the exhaust was a bit like the boys with Fiat punto 1L engines and a 5inch tail pipe!

Look at me I am deaf?
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Old 25-07-2006, 03:35 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Silversurfer
Is it fast has it got any punch? Apart from the noise - can always drill holes if you need too! I loved the sound of the XR2 but the exhaust was a bit like the boys with Fiat punto 1L engines and a 5inch tail pipe!

Look at me I am deaf?
I read a report in an american mag which said the opti's beat it in every department ie, fuel consumption, speed and acceleration.

And besides have you seen the size of one they are feckin huge.
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Old 25-07-2006, 03:43 PM   #8
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Small ones are definitely there - my Honda 5 is without doubt the best small outboard I've ever owned. It uses hardly any fuel and you don't have to mix it. More importantly it always always starts first or second pull. As an auxiliary it's the only choice, it even has a charging circuit so it'll run the nav lights if the proper engine lets you down at night!

Big ones I think it depends what you want. If you are not after absolute performance/weight then they are a good option but perhaps not if that is not what you want. The economy and reliability are still factors though.
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Old 25-07-2006, 04:02 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by wasonlydoing10knts!
Small ones are definitely there - my Honda 5 is without doubt the best small outboard I've ever owned. It uses hardly any fuel and you don't have to mix it. More importantly it always always starts first or second pull. As an auxiliary it's the only choice, it even has a charging circuit so it'll run the nav lights if the proper engine lets you down at night!

Big ones I think it depends what you want. If you are not after absolute performance/weight then they are a good option but perhaps not if that is not what you want. The economy and reliability are still factors though.
I went two stroke for the tender tohatsu 2.5HP was lighter to carry! Still only uses egg shells worths of fuel.
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Old 25-07-2006, 05:07 PM   #10
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Can't argue with the weight thing - the honda is pretty heavy, never checked, but I'd guess about the same as 10 ish hp 2 stroke. Fortunately I never have to carry mine!
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Old 25-07-2006, 05:16 PM   #11
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There was an article in Sports Boat and Rib comparing the two on the same boat i.e four stroke vs two stroke will dig out and scan if anyones interested engine about the 140HP mark I think.
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Old 25-07-2006, 05:47 PM   #12
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I think the opti design has flaws and I could see merc doing a major revision in not too many years.

I think the etec design is excellent (you can even pull start some of them with a flat battery) and much simpler/streamlined design.
Look how diminutive the 200 etec is. It's just a shame they've not built a 200HO on a 15" shaft that can be homolagated for racing (Mr Bombardier, if you're listening, I'm ready for a nice development/sponsorship package. )

I don't like the 4 strokes outboards at all, and I can't see there being any need for them in the market place. The verdodo is a ridiculous motor designed to appeal to the american love of superchargers and the old tower of power mercs It's a lovely piece of design, but it's as fuel efficient as the old OMC V8's!
And just wait until they've sat on the back of a boat for a few years and the rotors are all scored with salt deposits. Mmmm.
(Same applies to the optis really with the air compressor).

I think Honda did well with the big 4 strokes, they filled a market gap while the 2 strokes were old tech, but until the 4 strokes really leap ahead again to DFI (which hasn't really taken off on the cars yet), I can't see why anyone would buy one.

Even on portable motors, the 4 stroke is much heavier than the 2, so is less portable. Mebbe there's a place for them on the back of sailboats so sailors don't have to put up with the 2 stroke smell while they potter around at 4 knots with a 5hp motah.

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Old 25-07-2006, 05:58 PM   #13
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Merc vs Etec stats here http://forums.screamandfly.com/forum...ghlight=verado

Honda will do you a 5 year warranty on their Four Strokes thats some faith in their design.
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Old 25-07-2006, 06:00 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Silversurfer
Merc vs Etec stats here http://forums.screamandfly.com/forum...ghlight=verado

Honda will do you a 5 year warranty on their Four Strokes thats some faith in their design.
Lots of threads on powerhead design problems on the opti on S&F as well.
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Old 26-07-2006, 08:23 AM   #15
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We've had a Honda BF225 & Etec 250 on an 8m boat.

The Honda was quiet, smooth but heavy.

The Etec is quiet (compared to an Opti, but not as much as the BF), uses less fuel than the BF & is light. Very impressed.

A mate has a Seado Sportster with 3 cylinder supercharged 215 hp 4 stroke. It's very fuel efficient & small. Can't help thinking that it would make an excellent outboard. Are Bombardier missing a trick here?
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Old 26-07-2006, 08:32 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Silversurfer
Whats the Verado 275 sound like? Any one any experience of this motor on the water?
We've been running a Verado 250 since May on our demonstrator and the acceleration from standstill is amazing - I think the WOT consumption is probably awefull, but it does get a lot better once you back off a bit. It's incredibly quiet and even at flat out it's still not at all noisy. We have the optional foot throttle and it take a bit of getting used to throttling it because it's so quiet!

I should say we run an XS200 on the race boat and love the noise!
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Old 26-07-2006, 09:10 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Silversurfer
Whats the Verado 275 sound like? Any one any experience of this motor on the water?
NOT on the water but with 10' chain and the rope i dont think one has dragged yet and are excellent for sinking moorings.
Whilst the smaller engines are good there is quite a way to go on the bigger engines just the shear weight is affecting boat design & construction. There is a big difference on re-build costs when they come round. I shudder to think how much a 275 Varado would cost if you did a crank or charger
Edit: whats a full strip & build with say a crank , couple of pistons & valve gear cost any ideas anybody?
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Old 26-07-2006, 11:09 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brambles
A mate has a Seado Sportster with 3 cylinder supercharged 215 hp 4 stroke. It's very fuel efficient & small. Can't help thinking that it would make an excellent outboard. Are Bombardier missing a trick here?
This is the very engine that got me thinking about 4-stroke vs 2-stroke.

Mate had a Challenger 2000 with a 2-stroke Merc M-Jet 240HP, then swapped it for a newer, slightly smaller Challenger with the 215HP Rotax 4-stroke. Old boat had more 'Holeshot' but was 10mph slower & used 60 litres of fuel where the new one will use about 40 litres for the same time out and max out at nearly 60mph. I have to admit I was suprised at how good it was.

I believe the M-Jet was basically the top end of a 225 Opti sitting on top a Jet unit. If that's so then the Rotax could make a top O/B. Sounds excellent as well, kind of like a maniac's souped up Dyson!


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Old 26-07-2006, 11:14 AM   #19
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Torque is the problem. Jets can be designed to rev to the sky and don't need much torque to get them spinning, "slip" is incredibly high on a jet. The same motor coupled to a prop on a rib full of divers would struggle.
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Old 26-07-2006, 11:56 AM   #20
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I agree torque is the problem, that elusive divide between hp and torque one being a mathematical equation of the other, a good spread of torque throught a usefull rev range would be ideal, I would imagine torque was of great importance in boating as the drag of a hull on water creates friction, and it's relatively heavy to move. Look at an f1 car loads of HP used to be 900+ but not a lot a torque, not a problem though it's light and once screaming around the track it's close ratio gear box keeps the engine in it's most efficient performance range, a dragster, few gears, needs instance push loads a torque loads a Hp
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