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Old 16-05-2006, 12:02 PM   #1
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Bertram 38 Competition

A friend in Italy is doing some research on numerous old classic racers and needs to know more about the following:-

Ted Toleman Bertram - (Peter S/Carlsberg) - what was it before (Natural Light?Benihana?) and what became of it, where is it now etc.

Dog Gone - previously Visions of Guernsey. Same as above (believed to be the last ever 38 racer ever made). Where now etc???

Thanks for any info received.
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Old 16-05-2006, 01:05 PM   #2
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A 38' Bertram has recently gone over to europe, Gordon McMath has some details I think.
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Old 16-05-2006, 01:09 PM   #3
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The old Toleman Group is now in Germany
The old Dog Gone is in Portugal
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Old 16-05-2006, 01:48 PM   #4
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The new Dog Gone might be doing the Cancer Charities Race!
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Old 16-05-2006, 03:00 PM   #5
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Think Tolmans was the Ex Benihana purley on the grounds that was the one Smitty Smith throttled
have a look on http://www.historicraceboats.com for more info that would be a good place to post the question
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Old 16-05-2006, 06:48 PM   #6
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FlapJack
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Old 16-05-2006, 06:49 PM   #7
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Natural Lite No9
looking at the deck screen lines I reckon it's still Rocky Akoi's one which apart from paint was how it looked when it first came over.

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Old 16-05-2006, 08:28 PM   #8
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Thomas in Germany has one of the bertrams I have put a link below to the cigarette he has for sale check out the third photo you will see the bertram on the back of his truck.

http://www.boatshop24.com/web/en/suc...nzahlgesamt=65

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Old 16-05-2006, 09:29 PM   #9
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Bertram History

It was built in 1974 and Preston Henn was its first owner,it was called Bertram 49er,he then sold it to Howard Quam who renamed it Flapjack.Ted toleman bought it and named it Toleman Group-Peter Stuyvesant-Carlsberg, it was under this last name that it raced in 1986 and came 3rd in the CTC.He also used it to set a cross channel record with "Smitty" throttling, this was shown on a tv program hosted by Noel Edmunds.Alan Clark then bought it from Toleman and used it loads,even overtaking "Aviator" whilst airborne !! Alan then decided to strip the "420"s and rebuild them back to the original horsepower.Myself and Alan used it to spectate at Cowes about 5 years ago and I have some great memories of us charging (responsibly) around the solent.One rumour i was told and im sure PJC will be able to confirm or deny this and the other info i have posted,was that back in the days when shaving the skegs off to increase max speed was fashionable, the boat hooked and an unfortunate passengers neck was snapped as a result of the hook!! PJC is this true ?
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Old 16-05-2006, 10:07 PM   #10
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So Flapjack it was then. Lovley looking boat hope it lives on
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Old 16-05-2006, 10:08 PM   #11
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Apologies for changnig the subject, but Gordon, you need one of these!
http://search-desc.ebay.co.uk/search...rclo=&saprchi=
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Old 16-05-2006, 10:29 PM   #12
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And don't fkkn outbid me, OK!
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Old 17-05-2006, 08:08 AM   #13
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The mystery solved! Thanks chaps. Any further updates anyone wishes to add gratefully received.
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Old 17-05-2006, 08:11 AM   #14
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p.s. Is it me or was the 38 Competition one of the most beautiful designs ever? Yes it was wide, yes it was slow by todays standards, but boy oh boy, what a stunning looking machine.
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Old 17-05-2006, 08:37 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Maxim Gibson
The new Dog Gone might be doing the Cancer Charities Race!
I was in Tony Hamiltons workshop on Monday looking at the new boat - just a few finishing touches and the boat will be ready, he really wants to do the Cancer Charities race - the sound of twin Lambos again!
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Old 17-05-2006, 01:20 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by JASON
Thomas in Germany has one of the bertrams I have put a link below to the cigarette he has for sale check out the third photo you will see the bertram on the back of his truck.

http://www.boatshop24.com/web/en/suc...nzahlgesamt=65

Jason
The Toleman Group(1980)-Peter Stuyvesant(1982)?-Carlsberg(1983)? was one of the Flap Jacks of Howard Quam but not the first,former Bertram 49er of Preston Henn,because it was badly damaged in the Benihana race in 1978.
In 1979 Quam buy a second Bertram and renamed Flap Jack again.
Then Mr. Toleman bought it from Quam to race the 1980 offshore season.

I don't know was Bertram 38' is the white of Thomas in Germany,but it have the same inscription "Bertram 38' Competition" like that of the first 38' of history,the boat of Sammy James in 1973-74.
We don't see better the boat in Germany but I think it was the former 38' of Toleman.
At least I think that Mr.Toleman have had two Bertram 38'.
The first,former Flap Jack,1980's Toleman Group.
Then he bought the former Benihana from Rocky Aoki and renamed it Peter Stuyvesant in 1982,then Carsberg in 1983.
This last maybe is the Bertram 38' of Thomas in Germany.
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Old 17-05-2006, 01:23 PM   #17
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errr will sombody give Ted a bell & clear this one up
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Old 17-05-2006, 01:33 PM   #18
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The 38 that went to Germany a few months back, is definitely the old Ted Toleman boat. it sat in Southampton for many years, under the name 'Ocean Thunder' as Gordon has already said.

As Nige says, very sexy shape!
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Old 17-05-2006, 01:51 PM   #19
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Old 17-05-2006, 02:04 PM   #20
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Sorry,but Gordon said nothing about the Bertram 38 in Germany.
Gordon wrote that the Toleman Group was the former Bertram 49 er-Flap Jack and I answer that I think is not true.
I'm not in a "bell"....
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