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18-11-2006, 01:29 PM
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#21
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Registered User
Country: Belgium
Location: near Ghent
Occupation: engineer
Interests: boating, wakeboarding, snowboarding, fitness
Boat name: Outlaw
Boat make: Phantom 21ft
Engines: Yamaha 200hp
Cruising area: Zele / Kanaal Gent-Terneuzen
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: near Ghent
Posts: 473
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Bad news : I don't think my next boat will be that P20 I was talking about. This morning I visited the guy that sells his "mint condition '94 P20". It turned out to be a big disappointment.
Hull : P18, dutch people can't measure (6m should 've been 20ft), transom badly repaired. Surely older than '94. Didn't even look for HINnr.
Trailer : single axe, no registration, not in good condition
Steering: not the promised hydraulic, it was a single cable with slack (on a 225hp 65mph boat!)
Engine : 225hp VRO Johnson with open exhaust. Bad white shaft repaint. No serial tag, but found possible matching number on his registration card. Raker prop a bit damaged.
The owner proclaimed his VRO was a 4-stroke , he didn't ad oil for the last 2years (only ran it 2 times). Testrun with cooling waterhose was surpisingly good. I saw blue smoke, but didn't find the VRO oil tank.... I don't wanna risk it, this engine is surely older than '94 and probably waisted...
Man... it looked so pretty on the picture... It was a wreck
http://www.marktplaats.nl/index.php?...-29028-4128-33
The search continues...
At least this thread learns me that I'm looking for the good stuff : P20 or P21
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18-11-2006, 06:27 PM
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#22
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Registered User
Country: england
Location: the grim north
Occupation: robot
Cruising area: tyne
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: the grim north
Posts: 915
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i think it says 84 in the ad but my foreign is not good
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18-11-2006, 10:34 PM
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#23
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: Swansea
Occupation: Computer Director
Interests: Anything with an engine
Boat name: Too Blue
Boat make: RIB 9m
Engines: Suzuki 225efi
Cruising area: Bristol Channel/Irish Sea
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Swansea
Posts: 101
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Quote:
Originally posted by Johnny Boat Dude
What type of Bernico are you refering to? Cyco's Bernico F2 was absolutley stunning in the rough. Everyone who ever drove or went in it including many P20 and P21 owners would all coment on just how stable and easy it was to drive when it roughed up.
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I think it was a Bernico 18ocr - great in calm and moderate conditions but when it got horrible it wasn't as quick.
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18-11-2006, 10:36 PM
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#24
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Registered User
Country: Belgium
Location: near Ghent
Occupation: engineer
Interests: boating, wakeboarding, snowboarding, fitness
Boat name: Outlaw
Boat make: Phantom 21ft
Engines: Yamaha 200hp
Cruising area: Zele / Kanaal Gent-Terneuzen
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: near Ghent
Posts: 473
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Nono , it says "1994", and this was exactly the date of 'first registration' on his dutch registration card...
But the boat and motor are much older, it could be an 84 :-)
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19-11-2006, 01:48 PM
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#25
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: Weston Super Mare
Occupation: Electrical Engineer
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Weston Super Mare
Posts: 6,351
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Toffy next time you see an advert post the link on here before you go and look at it to avoid disapointment as alot of people can tell you what the hull is from just a glimps of a picture
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19-11-2006, 04:35 PM
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#26
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: London
Occupation: Electrical Engineer
Interests: Retired Ski Racer, Ski Racing Photography, Steam Railway Fireman
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: London
Posts: 220
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Re: boat behaviour of different hull types
Quote:
Originally posted by Toffy
but not as good as a ring which 'slides' more and doesn't hook...
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I can confirm that Rings do hook, i was in the observers seat of a 21' that hooked and probably wasn't holding on too well, i ended up going for a swim - not a nice experience
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19-11-2006, 06:14 PM
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#27
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Registered User
Country: Scotland
Location: Kirkcudbright
Interests: Boats n Lambrettas
Boat make: Boatless
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Kirkcudbright
Posts: 978
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What's the cause of boats hooking? Is it down to conditions,driver error,inexperiance or design fault in the boat ?
I've driven all sorts of boats since I was about 10years old and have found that any boat driven too hard in the wrong conditions can do something unexpected,having said that a more experienced driver might just trim out a bit or throttle back a tad and get away with it.
I reckon a lot of bad things have been said about perfectly good boats that have been down to the driver.
Your thoughts please.
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19-11-2006, 06:40 PM
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,724
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Quote:
Originally posted by mike k
What's the cause of boats hooking? Is it down to conditions,driver error,inexperiance or design fault in the boat ?
I've driven all sorts of boats since I was about 10years old and have found that any boat driven too hard in the wrong conditions can do something unexpected,having said that a more experienced driver might just trim out a bit or throttle back a tad and get away with it.
I reckon a lot of bad things have been said about perfectly good boats that have been down to the driver.
Your thoughts please.
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i agree with you! a bad workman always blames his tools!
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19-11-2006, 06:44 PM
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#29
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Registered User
Country: UK
Boat name: Johnny-Rude
Boat make: a few
Engines: Seagull with hi five prop
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 284
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Would tend to agree with you Mike K for the average boater, however when guys are top level racing I think it steps up a gear and pure race craft takes over. ............ Do you feel a BUT coming on. When daddies little rich kid jumps into a fast, car, boat or bike things sometimes tend to go horribly wrong
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Cheers
Brian
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19-11-2006, 06:46 PM
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#30
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Registered User
Country: Job Centre
Location: In a box
Occupation: Chaos's gofer
Interests: Skiving
Boat make: Spectre 30
Engines: 2 x Promax 225
Cruising area: In the bath
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: In a box
Posts: 5,201
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wild Thing
When daddies little rich kid jumps into a fast, car, boat or bike things sometimes tend to go horribly wrong
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__________________
Chaos for Moderator.
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19-11-2006, 06:50 PM
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#31
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: London
Occupation: Electrical Engineer
Interests: Retired Ski Racer, Ski Racing Photography, Steam Railway Fireman
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: London
Posts: 220
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wild Thing
When daddies little rich kid jumps into a fast, car, boat or bike things sometimes tend to go horribly wrong
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The driver in question had over 20 years experience of driving performance boats, so me thinks not in this case
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19-11-2006, 06:55 PM
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#32
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Registered User
Country: UK
Boat name: Johnny-Rude
Boat make: a few
Engines: Seagull with hi five prop
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 284
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not a dig, all steamed up mr rossi falls off mr alonso spins, shit happens when racing or pushing the envelope
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Cheers
Brian
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19-11-2006, 07:03 PM
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#33
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Registered User
Country: Scotland
Location: Kirkcudbright
Interests: Boats n Lambrettas
Boat make: Boatless
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Kirkcudbright
Posts: 978
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Quote:
Originally posted by all steamed up
The driver in question had over 20 years experience of driving performance boats, so me thinks not in this case
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So what do you think caused it ?
Even top drivers get it wrong sometimes.
I know I have and I've been driving for over 40 years.
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19-11-2006, 07:03 PM
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#34
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: London
Occupation: Electrical Engineer
Interests: Retired Ski Racer, Ski Racing Photography, Steam Railway Fireman
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: London
Posts: 220
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wild Thing
not a dig, all steamed up mr rossi falls off mr alonso spins, shit happens when racing or pushing the envelope
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Fair point, all i know is that it fcukin hurt, first hitting the side of the boat, then hitting the water and if, maybe i'd been holding on properly i might have stayed in the boat
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19-11-2006, 07:33 PM
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#35
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Registered User
Country: Belgium
Location: near Ghent
Occupation: engineer
Interests: boating, wakeboarding, snowboarding, fitness
Boat name: Outlaw
Boat make: Phantom 21ft
Engines: Yamaha 200hp
Cruising area: Zele / Kanaal Gent-Terneuzen
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: near Ghent
Posts: 473
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Quote:
Originally posted by mike k
What's the cause of boats hooking? Is it down to conditions,driver error,inexperiance or design fault in the boat ?
I've driven all sorts of boats since I was about 10years old and have found that any boat driven too hard in the wrong conditions can do something unexpected,having said that a more experienced driver might just trim out a bit or throttle back a tad and get away with it.
I reckon a lot of bad things have been said about perfectly good boats that have been down to the driver.
Your thoughts please.
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I think you're right! A lot depends on the driver. The fact that boats 'hook' in corners depends on speed, trimangle, surface conditions, boat setup, boat load, throttle control, hull-type, ... but the key factor is the driver !
I had to learn to drive my Ring 16ft 140hp Evinrude, and indeed it hooked sometimes. It just takes a lot of practice, experience and feeling to drive that 'perfect corner' at high speed. Same for driving at high speeds in a straight line. Driving a V-bottom is a high-speed balancing act. I think I'm able to drive my boat pretty much on the limit now.
At the end of this season I've let a waterski race driver take the wheel of my Ring. This guy, Frank, is probably the best boatdriver I know. He runs his Bernico 19ft 280hp right on the limit, a magnificient sight to see. I couldn't believe he jumped in my boat, and drove right away that 'perfect corner' + got upto top speed of 65mph...
=> The driver is the key factor.
However, what I would like to learn in this thread, is the influence of the hull-type.
Heaving read all of your reactions above, I can imagine phantoms hook just a bit quicker than rings... ?
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19-11-2006, 07:45 PM
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#36
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hello
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,739
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A bit quicker as in 'going a bit quicker' or as in 'earlier on'?
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19-11-2006, 07:49 PM
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#37
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Registered User
Country: uk
Location: poole
Occupation: retail
Interests: sport and being lazy
Boat make: ring rib
Engines: merc xr2
Cruising area: bournemouth bay
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: poole
Posts: 1,681
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Both Ring and Phantom hook in my book given the right circumstances, going back to the 80's me and the lads had both Ring's and phantom's all were standard layup ie nothing special for racing, with a 24p chopper on a Merc 200 of it's day both did within 1 mph of the other around 62-63mph. You can feel when it's a hooky day wave length height etc, in one race two phantom's hooked just a fraction in front of us, then 2 laps later we hooked, I damaged my hand plus gashed it open so had to retire and see the st Johns people for attention great guys and there own time, afterwards having a chat with the other's they said the boat was just to loose and just like us the bow tank did not work, just my take on it
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i can na give her any more captain
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19-11-2006, 08:06 PM
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#38
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Registered User
Country: Belgium
Location: near Ghent
Occupation: engineer
Interests: boating, wakeboarding, snowboarding, fitness
Boat name: Outlaw
Boat make: Phantom 21ft
Engines: Yamaha 200hp
Cruising area: Zele / Kanaal Gent-Terneuzen
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: near Ghent
Posts: 473
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I meant 'earlier on'... which means I think rings are better...
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19-11-2006, 08:35 PM
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#39
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: UK
Interests: Cars, boats n Drink
Engines: 2.5 EFI
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 49
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It was mentioned that the boat was for ski-racing?
Well I have been lucky to ski behind a few boats and i really prefer Bernicos, followed by the ring in terms of the water it produces. I feel the Bernico are much more suited to the rougher type of water and tend to kock the tops off a lot better. They also have a better look in my opinion.
But again it depends on the driver and the whole set up, on how the boat fairs in the water and corners.
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19-11-2006, 09:41 PM
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#40
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Registered User
Country: Belgium
Location: near Ghent
Occupation: engineer
Interests: boating, wakeboarding, snowboarding, fitness
Boat name: Outlaw
Boat make: Phantom 21ft
Engines: Yamaha 200hp
Cruising area: Zele / Kanaal Gent-Terneuzen
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: near Ghent
Posts: 473
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Quote:
Originally posted by Burty
Toffy next time you see an advert post the link on here before you go and look at it to avoid disapointment as alot of people can tell you what the hull is from just a glimps of a picture
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Thx Burty ! I'll do that... , I have 2 more possible projects.
For the one mentioned above, there was only 1 picture on-line. It really looked promising, but you can't see much in the picture. Moreover, the seller promised me on the phone a boat in "absolute mint condition"... I was convinced that it was wirthwhile to go on site.
It turned out to be a wreck ; the seller didn't even know a 2stroke from a 4 stroke, and probably waisted his engine
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