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Old 15-05-2009, 10:55 AM   #1
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Thread split from 'Tax Rebate for sale' thread by JF.

http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/F206697

Is this "phantom" the same type of "phantom" as Tax Rebate?

Reading through some of the posts on here I thought I had seen The Joker mentioned... and this add mentions The Joker...
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Old 15-05-2009, 02:16 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy21 View Post
http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/F206697

Is this "phantom" the same type of "phantom" as Tax Rebate?
Yes, though without the steps.

The seller of this "Phantom" is a previous owner of the other stepped "Phantom".

http://boatmad.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9556
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Old 15-05-2009, 03:29 PM   #3
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Did the same person build both ? this one was built by raf!!!re the other one on b and o is listed as being built by high performance marine is it the same company ? couldn't find a site for h p m the raf!!!re one seems dead. There seems is be a mkt for the 28 although small does the person in spain who bought the mouldings / rights build any ?
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Old 15-05-2009, 04:56 PM   #4
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Clive Baker bought both boats either from, or through, Nico Bertels (Bernico)

High Performance Marine?? poetic licence if you ask me. 'Sterling' on this forum could tell you who built them.

I believe there is a connection with Raffshore & Nico with these copies.

The stepped one was I think an experiment, and probably wasn't intended to endure the rigures of serious offshore use, or racing. Though Chaos has a pic of another identical stepped 28 from Europe, so who knows how many they made. Raff claimed about 2, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if it were 22.

It was used in the Round The Island basic a few years back, and suffered a fair bit of damage to the deck, which was repaired by a guy that used to be based at Merlin Quay. But as Clive & his daughter Kelly said, "we're happy".

Del, if you genuinly bought this boat thinking it was a Phantom product, I'm sorry the bad press could affect your sale, that's a rough deal and very unfair.
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Old 15-05-2009, 05:07 PM   #5
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Quote:
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couldn't find a site for h p m the raf!!!re one seems dead.
raf!!!re website including pictures of a model called a Phanton 28
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Old 15-05-2009, 05:09 PM   #6
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raf!!!re website including pictures of a model called a Phanton 28
Or as they call it, a Phanthom 28, and......

....'No wave is high enough, no engine big enough'
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Old 15-05-2009, 05:11 PM   #7
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Or as they call it, a Phanthom 28
'n' and 'm' key, too close together on my keyboard
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Old 15-05-2009, 05:14 PM   #8
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'n' and 'm' key, too close together on my keyboard
Did you build their website then?

edit> I see, you made a typo too. lol

their site calls it a PHANTHOM
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Old 15-05-2009, 05:17 PM   #9
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Did you build their website then?
Must admit with my spelling, I could have done, but i'm afraid not

Just simply entered 'Raffshore' into google and hey presto
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Old 15-05-2009, 05:31 PM   #10
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Phantom

Using all steamed ups link it does say phantom in the gallery as when i have been on the site before it was phanthom
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Old 15-05-2009, 05:42 PM   #11
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Quote:
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Using all steamed ups link it does say phantom in the gallery as when i have been on the site before it was phanthom

Still does:

Browse to 'models' and scroll down.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

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Old 15-05-2009, 05:46 PM   #12
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If you use the link and click gallery there is no extra h on my screen but i dont know how to do a screen shot, Del
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Old 15-05-2009, 05:48 PM   #13
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The site is an old one I think under news it mentions a new site but that's it.Tried emailing several times with no reply.
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Old 15-05-2009, 05:49 PM   #14
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Quote:
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If you use the link and click gallery there is no extra h on my screen but i dont know how to do a screen shot, Del
Yes, it's correct in the gallery, except of course, it's not actualy a Phantom at all.
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Old 15-05-2009, 08:02 PM   #15
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So why are these copies not being cut in half then??

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Old 15-05-2009, 08:36 PM   #16
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Jon would know better than me but I don't think Steve Baker sees it as good value going for a claim.

The fact that they have splashed them in the first place with no regard for intellectual property is one thing and if they're not being made anymore I'm not sure it's a huge problem.

BUT, to then actually sell them as an original i.e. using the name Phantom, I think is downright misrepresentation of their product and probably the buyers of them should be bringing the action.

It's also not only insulting to owners of originals, but possibly damaging to the value of their own asset so perhaps they should do something about it.
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Old 16-05-2009, 08:56 AM   #17
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BUT, to then actually sell them as an original i.e. using the name Phantom, I think is downright misrepresentation of their product and probably the buyers of them should be bringing the action.
You would bring an action on the grounds of Malicious Misrepresentation...
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Old 16-05-2009, 09:47 AM   #18
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no, I just wanted to put a random post up with words like litigitious, misrepresentation, malicious, asset and insulting in it cause I knew me old mucker would bite.

Waasup. Thought you were dead mate.

I thought I may have overstepped the mark including the word intellectual and had frightened you orf
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Old 16-05-2009, 09:59 AM   #19
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Banter aside though Martin, what should be done with these pr*cks?

Delboy here is a clear example of someone getting caught financially. Steve Baker has obviously lost out.

I've recently seen a number of posts maligning the name Phantom on other forums (fori?) that have stemmed from models that definately didn't come out of Kent.

If it wasn't for Boatmad making the knowledge available to the masses the situation would a damn sight worse.

Consider doing up a raceboat and spending shedloads of money only to find that some git had taken a copy of the hull form and then produced another boat and sold it with the name D2S. Where would go with that?

To me it's the same as owning a house in the middle of a Wimpey estate and claiming on the sales particulars that it was built by St George.

So they are like estate agents. Does that get across how I feel about it
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Old 16-05-2009, 10:18 AM   #20
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To be fair, Delboy paid a fraction of the value of a genuine P28 for his Berniraff and is asking a realistic price for it's sale. Even with the mechanical issues it had when he bought it, it would have been 2 or 3 times that price he paid if it were real. So no one is knocking Delboy for his actions.

The issue is boats like the other one mentioned in this thread, where the vendor is asking 40k for a copy, thats had significant gell work on the running surface following the whole bottom having the pox from living in the drink.

The buyer of that boat will most likely pay a Phantom price for a repaired Eurotrash copy without knowing, and there's a chance, though very slight, that the vendor might forget to mention it's not the 'Real McCoy', or maybe even being told it's superior to the originals.

If he finds problems, and believes it to be a genuine boat, and publically slags it's build quality off, the value of my boat, and that of Martin's and Taz's could all be affected. How can that be fair? Not to mention the good name of Phantom boats getting bad press.

And so it goes on....
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