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21-04-2007, 12:38 PM
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,891
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IMVHO having the pump permanently live is bad practice.
All the efi systems I've worked on have had a relay on the ECU output to the pump.
The relay is switched by the ECU and is on the positive side of the pump. So the pump body is always grounded.
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21-04-2007, 12:42 PM
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#22
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Registered User
Boat make: Phantom 23
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt
IMVHO having the pump permanently live is bad practice.
All the efi systems I've worked on have had a relay on the ECU output to the pump.
The relay is switched by the ECU and is on the positive side of the pump. So the pump body is always grounded.
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well all the mercury laser systems have it as permanent live.
but yeah i agree, i was saying to my dad that i am going to put a relay as you can hear there is abit of a voltage drop,(when you run it from the ecu and when u run it directly from battery, so yeah i could put the replay onto the live.
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21-04-2007, 02:55 PM
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#23
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hello
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,739
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You really need to drill some holes dude. You just can't rig a boat properly if you're not willing to drill a few mounting holes.
Is the hole where the pump lies on the rubber membrane? Is it possible that the pump has been arcing through the rubber as this could cause that type of damage (and alot more too if you see what I mean)?
Buy a new pump (don't repair the old one, bin it) and mount it using a proper bracket (CYCO makes nice billet ones) to one of the wooden uprights. That means drilling two tiny little holes but as long as you re-seal the wood after drilling all will be okay, It will look a damn site better than having yer fuel pump tie wrapped in on a little rubber mat too.
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21-04-2007, 04:11 PM
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#24
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Registered User
Boat make: Phantom 23
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Boat Dude
You really need to drill some holes dude. You just can't rig a boat properly if you're not willing to drill a few mounting holes.
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Yes I! drilled only holes that were necessary!
What’s wrong with the rigging I done? And it was only 6 holes in the stringers (3 each side to hold the main ally angle which holds the fuel tank down)
I have made the best of the holes I have drilled, I made a bracket that mounts off the fuel tank angle,
This saves,
2 holes for the trim pump
2 holes for the gorilla jack pump
2 holes for the fuel filter
Battery mounting holes as that’s strapped to the angle as well.
Another reason other than drilling holes was that it holds the pumps further forward, so to keep the c.o.g further forward.
It also means that we can store things ether side now as it’s not blocked off with pumps etc
So your comment that you can’t rig properly without drilling a few holes....
6 holes is plenty to hold everything securely!
The bow tank outlets... what’s wrong with using 2 perfectly adequate holes that are already drilled? For the sake of an extra 15 foot of pipe!
The only reason one came off was because the jubalee clip wasn’t tight enough, they along with the steering hoses etc up the top so are supported and there’s not much stress on the connection to skin fitting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Boat Dude
Is the hole where the pump lies on the rubber membrane? Is it possible that the pump has been arcing through the rubber as this could cause that type of damage (and a lot more too if you see what I mean)?
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No it’s where one of the fuel hoses was touching the pump so salt obviously remained there when it was washed out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Boat Dude
Buy a new pump (don't repair the old one, bin it) and mount it using a proper bracket (CYCO makes nice billet ones) to one of the wooden uprights. That means drilling two tiny little holes but as long as you re-seal the wood after drilling all will be okay, It will look a damn site better than having yer fuel pump tie wrapped in on a little rubber mat too
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I’ve got no intention of repairing the old one and using it,
I can’t see the cyco brackets being any better as when salts introduced the dissimilar metals will accelerate corrosion.
but never the less I had already had a nice bracket made up from 10 mm ally but because of the grounding problem, couldn’t use it (didn't know that corrosion would be such a huge problem, although it probably wouldn’t have been if the hose didn’t come off and drench everything.
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21-04-2007, 05:23 PM
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#25
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Registered User
Location: GOLDEN MILE
Boat name: LILY THE PINK AND TERMINATOR 11
Boat make: PHANTOM 21 AND 20
Engines: 2.5 EFI X 2
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: GOLDEN MILE
Posts: 2,475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PuppiesBalls
Pump age??........Roofer?!
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I'd probably had it about 6 months before you got it, Sounds like you've shorted it out and burnt a hole in it, somehow can't see it being a warrenty claim.
Got another new one if you need it
__________________
PLEASE DON'T STEAL...THE GOVERNMENT DON'T LIKE THE COMPETITION
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21-04-2007, 05:47 PM
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#26
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hello
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PuppiesBalls
I can’t see the cyco brackets being any better as when salts introduced the dissimilar metals will accelerate corrosion.
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Cyes are powder coated and made from ally which suprisingly enough isn't isn't dissimilar to ally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PuppiesBalls
but never the less I had already had a nice bracket made up from 10 mm ally but because of the grounding problem, couldn’t use it.
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Bolt it to a none metalic part of the boat like say I dunno the wooden upright , or re make it from an insulating material!!!
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21-04-2007, 06:05 PM
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#27
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hello
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PuppiesBalls
we had 2 skin fittings at the back of the boat (1 each side) we chose to run the bowtank over flow down the sides of the boat and to the skin fittings at the back
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One reason people put the over flow in the side just in front of the driver's seat is so the driver can see when the tank is full and lift the pickup.
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21-04-2007, 09:19 PM
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#28
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Registered User
Location: Scotland
Interests: Hole maker
Boat make: Humber Ocean Offshore
Engines: KAD 300/DPX
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 958
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When you mount your new pump, you need to use a relay as Matt suggested, because otherwise the casing is at a positive potential and any dampness, salty or otherwise, will work as an electrolyte and it won't be long before you have another corrosion hole. If it were mine, I'd be greasing up the outside of the new pump and sliding it into a piece of rubber tubing with a hose clip at each end. I'd also be covering the end with some form of cap. You could then put a big P-clip or U-bracket around it and mount it knowing it's not going to let you down.
__________________
JW.
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21-04-2007, 09:28 PM
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#29
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Registered User
Boat make: Phantom 23
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Boat Dude
Bolt it to a none metalic part of the boat like say I dunno the wooden upright , or re make it from an insulating material!!!
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material such as plastic/rubber maybe?
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21-04-2007, 09:39 PM
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#30
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Registered User
Boat make: Phantom 23
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Boat Dude
One reason people put the over flow in the side just in front of the driver's seat is so the driver can see when the tank is full and lift the pickup.
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Yep but if it hadnt all been chaos and i had assesed the situation, i would have only seen the overflow spray coming out of the left skin fitting, however if it was at the front, yes we would have been able to see it was full up as i could with it when its on the back except i would have to turn round when filling it up, but i as the 2 skin fittings would be right next to each other then it would be very hard to tell if 1 was disconected!
i am going to run a small pipe(speedo type) from the over flow and put a minuture skin fitting, like on a model boat, so it can be mounted in the bottom of the dash plate, that way there will be a small spray when its full up, wont need to drill any more holes in the boat, and you wont get a facefull of water when it does over flow as it does when the overflows are on the side! (as it did on my uncles p16)
yes i understand that it would be easier and cheaper to just drill another 2 holes in the side of the boat, but then we would have 2 neglected skin fittings on the back of the boat and its stuped for the sake of buying some extra hose and being abit more creative with the over flow.....
besides, when your going along at 50 mph and the its over flowing it looks cool with the water spraying upwards out of the back of the boat from both sides side
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21-04-2007, 09:41 PM
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#31
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Registered User
Boat make: Phantom 23
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jw.
When you mount your new pump, you need to use a relay as Matt suggested, because otherwise the casing is at a positive potential and any dampness, salty or otherwise, will work as an electrolyte and it won't be long before you have another corrosion hole. If it were mine, I'd be greasing up the outside of the new pump and sliding it into a piece of rubber tubing with a hose clip at each end. I'd also be covering the end with some form of cap. You could then put a big P-clip or U-bracket around it and mount it knowing it's not going to let you down.
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Cheers for the advice dude,
I was saying to my dad that im going to put a relay just before i posted on here, as you can hear a slight increase in the pump speed from when its running from the ecu/engine to when you groung it.
Anyone know where i can get one from?
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22-04-2007, 12:33 AM
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#32
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Registered User
Location: Scotland
Interests: Hole maker
Boat make: Humber Ocean Offshore
Engines: KAD 300/DPX
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 958
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PuppiesBalls
Anyone know where i can get one from?
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You could use a standard 30amp auto one available from a motor accessory shop for a couple of quid. Although they are usually plastic bodied, it won't stand a proper dunking. Perhaps someone else may know of a type which is watertight.
Easy to wire up...but you'd be best checking which connection is which on the type you get.
__________________
JW.
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22-04-2007, 12:45 AM
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#33
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hello
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,739
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Thats a lovely drawing mate!!! Seems I have some competition!!!
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22-04-2007, 08:28 AM
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#34
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Registered User
Country: England
Location: Hertfordshire
Occupation: Airline Operations.
Interests: Rum. Pirates. And West Cornwall pasties.
Boat name: Any suggestions?
Boat make: Ring 18
Engines: Mercury 200 Black Max
Cruising area: The Bay of 'E'
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 369
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Best relays out there are either 'Bosch' or 'Potter & Brumfield'
I've fitted them inside engine bays for many years on cars and they've never once let me down. The cheap ones tend not to be sealed very well and have low-grade internals.
Not cheap, at about a fiver a pop, but then the best never is.
'Quality is remembered long after price is forgotten' as Aldo Gucci famously said!
__________________
Boat: (Noun) - A hole in the water, lined with fibreglass, into which you pour money.
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22-04-2007, 09:41 AM
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#35
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,891
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Have a look at merc part no. 882751A 1
Or as Burnett says.
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22-04-2007, 12:09 PM
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#36
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Registered User
Country: Job Centre
Location: In a box
Occupation: Chaos's gofer
Interests: Skiving
Boat make: Spectre 30
Engines: 2 x Promax 225
Cruising area: In the bath
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: In a box
Posts: 5,201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt
Have a look at merc part no. 882751A 1
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Think I've got a new one of those still in the packet. £5.00 + postage.
__________________
Chaos for Moderator.
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23-04-2007, 12:01 AM
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#37
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: Weston Super Mare
Occupation: Electrical Engineer
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Weston Super Mare
Posts: 6,351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PuppiesBalls
i am going to run a small pipe(speedo type) from the over flow and put a minuture skin fitting, like on a model boat, so it can be mounted in the bottom of the dash plate, that way there will be a small spray when its full up, wont need to drill any more holes in the boat, and you wont get a facefull of water when it does over flow as it does when the overflows are on the side! (as it did on my uncles p16)
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Nice, so now when the bow tank is full it will piss into your lap and be like you've wet yourself
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23-04-2007, 12:07 AM
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#38
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Registered User
Country: England
Location: Hertfordshire
Occupation: Airline Operations.
Interests: Rum. Pirates. And West Cornwall pasties.
Boat name: Any suggestions?
Boat make: Ring 18
Engines: Mercury 200 Black Max
Cruising area: The Bay of 'E'
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 369
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I couldn't work that one out either. Surely a level switch operating a warning light would be better?
__________________
Boat: (Noun) - A hole in the water, lined with fibreglass, into which you pour money.
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23-04-2007, 12:07 AM
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#39
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hello
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,739
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You could get one of those things on the side of kettles, then when the ball gets to 8 tea cups you would know your bow tank is full.
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23-04-2007, 12:10 AM
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#40
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Registered User
Boat make: Phantom 23
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,693
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yep we had that idea but as the bowtanks lower, it wouldnt work because of gravity.
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