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Old 29-04-2004, 09:01 PM   #1
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genuine phantom, jon fuller plis read

can anyone help me to identify a real phantom from some of these new phoney phantoms made by different companies,i recently found a beautiful p 21 in holland on euro boats.com only to be told by the owner that the boat was actually built in holland by some company called ekarku or similar ,[my dutch is non existent and the sellers english was sketchy to say the least],it seems that there are a lot of these 4 sale in holland ,ranging from boats built in 93 right up to 2003,ok so after 2000 when steve baker packed up i can understand that these would be built by someone else,but are they any good,are they the same ,ore are they crap,i,ve heard rumors of copy 28 in belgium that the floor was coming apart after only a short time.are there any pre 2000 phantom copies out there ,i,ve also seen a 21 1993 phantom again in holland,but how can i tell its a genuine p21 not one made in holland by someone else
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Old 29-04-2004, 11:30 PM   #2
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Steve was sent some pictures of a 21 by the Dutch police a couple of years ago, and asked to identify whether or not it was a genuine UK boat, or a copy.

From the outside it would have been very difficult indeed to tell the difference, but the structures were done in quite a different way, so he was able to say it was a fake.

He never did find out why the Dutch police were so interested in the boat.

So the answer is, it could be quite hard to tell unless you're familiar with the construction methods of the genuine article.

I'm sure some of the copies (there are many I think) are very good, but I wouldn't want one on priciple.
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Old 30-04-2004, 02:16 AM   #3
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Bakers Dozen!

Jon,

you'll have to excuse me as its late and i'm very pissed! Funilly enough, been to see a band called " British Sea Power"


Just thought i'd ask the question.

Regardless of the European copies. If (theoretically speaking) I where to buy a boat produced from Steves moulds, by a reputable company that he agreed the rights with.... that may have adapted his lay-up somewhat.......

am i permitted to call this a Phantom?

or do i have a fake/ copy?

Not trying to give the game away or nought!!


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Old 30-04-2004, 08:53 AM   #4
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Good question, I think Steve still owns the name 'Phantom boats', Clive Jones (new builder of the 16/18 models) calls his boats 'phantom uk', so I don't know what Trio mouldings intend to call their 20/21/23.
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Old 30-04-2004, 10:20 AM   #5
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it would help if brin @ trio would bring his prices down,at the moment they are expensive and as far as im aware he hasnt sold any
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Old 30-04-2004, 10:56 AM   #6
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They proboably need to keep the price of the Phantoms up to compensate for the lack of Crompton Ribs they were building.
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Old 30-04-2004, 12:28 PM   #7
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so back to my prediciment,does it mean an old say p 21 in holland made in 1993 is copy, or is it the more likely that the fakes were made after 2000,do these fakes have the same hull serial nos as the proper ones
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Old 30-04-2004, 12:40 PM   #8
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Phoneys have been made for years, if you find a boat that you're interested in, post the hin here, and we'll try and find out for you.
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Old 30-04-2004, 01:23 PM   #9
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Thanks Jon, you're a star!
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Old 30-04-2004, 08:27 PM   #10
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OK so do Solent RIBS really use phantom hulls?

Missus
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Old 04-05-2004, 10:07 AM   #11
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Missus, no they are based on a Tohatsu moulding from Porters, but very similar quality and the tubes for both boats are from Henshaws. So in reality they are very similar and the only difference is likely to be the style and quality of the fittings and consoles which the first owner chooses.

Although you might be right the original Tohatsu might have been based on a Phantom,

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Old 04-05-2004, 12:39 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by terminator
Although you might be right the original Tohatsu might have been based on a Phantom,
Or the "original" Tohatsu might have been based on a BWM that might have been based on a Phantom . . .

John
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Old 04-05-2004, 01:59 PM   #13
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I thought the BWM was a splash of the Revenger hull! You ribbers nick every feckin thing don't you!
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Old 04-05-2004, 02:14 PM   #14
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The BMW Deepseas came from Pauls previous firm, "Raider Ribs" which came from a moulding obtained from a Cheshire firm eons ago (mid - late 80s). Unfortunately the cheshire firm also sold a set of moulds to Northcraft which is why their hulls are very similar and bang went any chance of Royalites.

The Tohatsus are a totally different shape so don't think they are BMW Deepsea related but the only ones who know for sure will be Porters. Porters may have called it a day on the BWMs and started again, they certainly have the experience to make a new mould from scratch.

Not sure where the Rapier hulls came from but the upturned spray rails at the front are very reminisent of Fairey huntress/swordfishes etc. Do Revenger hardboats have upturned spray rails at the front ?

Towards the end Paul did also flirt with 21' moulding for racing and built some Ribs out of carbon fibre, think they were called "XP" and based on either a Phantom or Ring (memory is fading now but money is on the Ring) so this could be evolution of Solent Ribs.

Anyone else fill in the gaps ?

T
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Old 04-05-2004, 02:35 PM   #15
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Quote:
I thought the BWM was a splash of the Revenger hull! You ribbers nick every feckin thing don't you!
Yup,

but then so do speed boat manufacturers, how about this for the first planing hull ?

http://mcs.open.ac.uk/dac3/OurNavy/turbinia.htm

35 knots isn't to bad given the date was 1897.

T
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Old 06-05-2004, 11:27 PM   #16
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Hmm a BWM XP21 on e bay, anyone identify were this hull came from then ?

T

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...477370619&rd=1
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Old 07-05-2004, 08:06 PM   #17
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Pretty sure it's not a Phantom
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