New Diesel Engine - Buck Marine Diesel

[Jon Fuller]

I'd like to just point out that the current argument tween Boatless again & TimBilly is a US-US thing, not a US-EU thing.

So TimBilly, whilst taking place on (virtual) British soil, you're critic is a fellow citizen, not a Euro chap.

JF

[cfun]

sounds like Boatless is giving some Harsh love ...

Loves the idea

Harsh because it's a hard world out there and they better get used to it if they want to succeed

and as they say perhaps Boatless is no one's fool as to how things work in this big ole world

[Boatless-Again]

Originally Posted by Jon Fuller

I'd like to just point out that the current argument tween Boatless again & TimBilly is a US-US thing, not a US-EU thing.

So TimBilly, whilst taking place on (virtual) British soil, you're critic is a fellow citizen, not a Euro chap.

JF

Shhhhhh... It only makes him look bad. The world is big enough for everyone and I've seen enough of to know that every country has it genius's too.

[motorvator]

Originally Posted by Boatless-Again

Sorry, but you are DENSE. This is not a reference to weight by the way.

Read my comments without getting hot headed. I could care less where or who made this engine. Understand this is constructive criticism not a personal attack. If you don't want to be treated like a dumb hillbilly, then don't act like one.

1. Torque, I'm still correct on that. You are only able to make 1225 lbs at your 3,000 rpm level. Accept it and move on.

2. Cummins QSM11, 715 hp @ 3,000 rpm. No where near 2,500 lbs.

3. Owners don't give a rats ass. They have dealer support and it is never their azz hole and elbow in the bilge, its someone else, meaning the engine support guys who are factory trained to work and service these engines under warranty.

I am not saying that the design is not great, not needed, not warranted. Just you need more sizzle than that to make the engine sell. Yes it is neat to the mechanics but they can't afford the engine much less the boat to put them in. This will pay off in the FUTURE as the second, third owner will be far more concerned about service after the manufacturer's warranty has expired. Please note, a used boat can have a manufacturer's warranty on the engines if the new owner has the dealers rebuild and certify the engines. Your sizzle has far more bearing toward the next owner than the first buyer.

4. Don't present yourself, nor acknowledge yourself to be a f'n hillbilly. As for US history is full of your Dumb Hillbillies being the president of your country. Don't let your birth demographics limit your abilities. Be more self confident, more assertive and professional and you will be more successful. Look North to the little redneck that owns Fountain Powerboats. It didn't limit him so don't let it limit you.

5. A large part of being professional is being prepared and having facts do the talking for you. My comments are to the fact that you have no facts. If you went into any meeting with dyno sheets, an actual engine that could run on a stand or better yet on a dyno in front of people you would get their respect and attention and possibly some of their money.

You have been on a lot of Internet sites talking about this engine (great) but you have dodged any concrete answers to power and torque. Even boat manufacturers can run the plug and say it did this before they teak and refine it for the customers. What is your "this"? It is not that hard and if it is a secret, then you should have not come onto the Internet speaking about it. Believe me, the investors will be 10X worst on you than I am being and they will not give you any advice to help you.

Like the Dragons, the better you are prepared the easier it is to get money out of them.


6. & Final. " am kind of curious because you seem to have that "not designed here" mentality. Which of the large engine manufacturer's do you work for?"

For someone who says they get agitated when people do not read, you need to read and COMPREHEND.

I never said it can't be good, nor is it not great, never said there was no confidence in the design nor merits.

I said you talk crap and do not back it up with facts.

Post your HP and Torque curves. Tell the world that you've put this engine in a truck, a car, a farm tractor or heaven for bid a boat and it performed as follows.......

Get on with it.

Boatless, I don't know if it's just the written word but the only one coming across as dense here is you. The man has tried to explain in every post that we are talking about a work in progress but you continually jibe him for exact figures and calling him out for not having them.

I'm lost, do you have something against them?

The point you seem to be missing is that apart from volvo with their 40 series I'm pretty sure this is the first bespoke designed marine diesel for years with most manufacturers taking a road duty engine and adapting them to marine use with a drastic reduction in expected life.

Where the hell do you get the statement that owners don't give a rat's arse. One of the first things that people tend towards when buying new is an eye for the resale value and I guess that engines that are easily bought back up to speed will be a factor.

I find it fascinating that someone has the balls to actually do it and would support it rather than put them down at every opportunity.

[Boatless-Again]

I can see your UK's Genius.

I did not put him down, rather I offered free advice that would make him much more presentable and salable which is what he is searching for. He just did not seem to have the tack to absorb an ego and take it and build upon it.

Like I've asked. What are the #'s? If you cannot answer for him, please step aside and don't block him from speaking. And please note to you and him, I was not the first too ask him any questions that he did not answer. I just asked what are the #'s and based upon his estimation of power provided what the torque would be (it's all about math) and he got upset.

[lain]

Originally Posted by Boatless-Again

Promote it when there is something to promote. Imagine what the Dragons would say

I dont see why building interest in this engine can't be done before the hard numbers are proven, as far as I'm concerned that's all part of marketing and something I've been taught to do for maximum effect (all part of social marketing)

Originally Posted by Boatless-Again

I did not put him down

From an outsiders viewpoint I'd say you didn't just put him down but were quite rude in your manner calling him "dense" and a "f'n hillbilly"

I'm not sure if this is your attempt at humour but to me it doesn't come across like it.

Personally I don't deal with people who come across so blatantly rude, why should I. So I wouldn't expect anyone else to take it either. Maybe if you toned it down a bit BuckMarine would be more willing to answer your questions rather than becoming defensive themselves and perhaps we could all find out more about their engine.

I am curious what Boatless-again does for a living and why you pretended not to be from the other side of the pond, as if you are talking from a position of expertise it would nice to know where it's come from?

[TimbillyOSU]

Boatless, as I have tried to get across to you, this is a work in progress. I will not be giving you any numbers because they are not close to where they should be because we are not running the injectors that we should be. What we have right now is a "proof of concept" engine. It proves that we can make this engine as we have designed it and it will run. I'm not saying it has produced the numbers that we expect yet because it hasn't.

I also never called us hillbillies. I said that is what the ignorant people seem to think we are. As for that Fountain guy... he just filed bankruptcy a few weeks ago...

I was not arguing with you that 700 hp at 3000 rpm was 1,225 ft-lbs. I was saying that max torque will be 1,400 ft-lbs but will be developed at a lower rpm. Look at any other torque-hp curves and you will see the same thing. However, these numbers are still ESTIMATES.

I am also as curious as lain. What is your background?

[marshan162]

Just took a look on the Cummins site, and they quote 'Peak Torque' at lower than 'Max HP' RPM. Just like Buck does, and as far as I remember all engines are rated that way.

There is no need to quote Torque at 'Max HP RPM' because you can work it out for yourself with simple maths, so to quote Peak torque at it's relevent(and most likely lower) RPM is of more use.

[Boatless-Again]

Originally Posted by TimbillyOSU

Boatless, as I have tried to get across to you, this is a work in progress. I will not be giving you any numbers because they are not close to where they should be because we are not running the injectors that we should be. What we have right now is a "proof of concept" engine. It proves that we can make this engine as we have designed it and it will run. I'm not saying it has produced the numbers that we expect yet because it hasn't.

I also never called us hillbillies. I said that is what the ignorant people seem to think we are. As for that Fountain guy... he just filed bankruptcy a few weeks ago...

I was not arguing with you that 700 hp at 3000 rpm was 1,225 ft-lbs. I was saying that max torque will be 1,400 ft-lbs but will be developed at a lower rpm. Look at any other torque-hp curves and you will see the same thing. However, these numbers are still ESTIMATES.

I am also as curious as lain. What is your background?

BINGO. Instead of getting testy and writing a defensive attack at my statements, you just provided what you should have provided in your opening statement.

It clarifies your position, it points to why you are where you are and it yearns that there is more to come (possibly).

Simple communication is not that simple is it. Just state the facts, the rest will take care of itself.

As for your demographic ideologies, those were not an impairment by myself, rather your projection. Take my advice and drop that bit from your approach and you will not have to cross it again. You went to far into your insecurities that they distract from your goal.

And watch that little red neck Reggie, he will own Fountain outright in another month and escape the debt and conditions Mercury put on Fountain Powerboats in the first place. He is no dummy and that is for certain.

As for others, where I am does not necessitate where I am from and it really has no bearing on how much HP and Torque this engine design makes.

Background. Commercial Propeller business (past) and business development with venture capitalist. They care where your torque is rather than what it is. A flat torque ban is great but a torque # just off idle is not as desirable for a yacht achieving top speeds the owners want especially when the load conditions change constantly.

[Jon Fuller]

Originally Posted by Boatless-Again

He is no dummy and that is for certain

Even though he tries so very hard to look like one!

You sure?

Cowes, Isle of Wight, UK 2007. Talk about look out of place.

[baj666]

ime only a simple man of simple means from a simple land but not too simple to spot pure rudeness in an otherwise interesting thread

[Boatless-Again]

Originally Posted by Jon Fuller

Even though he tries so very hard to look like one!

You sure?

Cowes, Isle of Wight, UK 2007. Talk about look out of place.

Nothing is 100% He gets attention and press like no other and he designs one heck of a bottom

Now having taste...

[Jon Fuller]

Originally Posted by Boatless-Again

He gets attention and press like no other and he designs one heck of a bottom

I thought he stepped someone elses design? (Excaliber??) and when you say, 'he designs' does 'he' do it himself?

[TimbillyOSU]

Originally Posted by Jon Fuller

I thought he stepped someone elses design? (Excaliber??) and when you say, 'he designs' does 'he' do it himself?

No, he has a guy with a degree in some form of Marine Design. I interviewed with him. Smart guy...

I actually interviewed there before I found Mike's project.

[Ben]

The original Fountain & Garbrecht Executioner was an Excalibur 31 with the addition of a pad keel and notched transom. The pad keel and notched transom had previously been done by Steve Stepp who got the idea from Allison.

[Boatless-Again]

Originally Posted by Ben

The original Fountain & Garbrecht Executioner was an Excalibur 31 with the addition of a pad keel and notched transom. The pad keel and notched transom had previously been done by Steve Stepp who got the idea from Allison.

Is the "Garbrecht" Gary Garbrecht?

He is the one that sold "Second Effort" to Reggie (propeller business) and they did a stock swap with a one year hold. Gary waited a few months and sold something like $1,000,000.00 worth of stock and flooded the market with Fountain stock putting market shares in the tank.

Reggie and Gary were teammates at Mercury Racing back in the day.

Excalibur was the original boat that Reggie purchased at first (I believe) and merely put his name on it before he made his own boat from that bottom (with mods) of course.

[Boatless-Again]

Originally Posted by TimbillyOSU

No, he has a guy with a degree in some form of Marine Design. I interviewed with him. Smart guy...

I actually interviewed there before I found Mike's project.

Whoever it is, is damn smart as I could not have a clue where to start on making a boat but they are fast with little hp.

Rumor a few yrs ago was that one of the designers from Fountain lost employment there and went to Donzi and he gave birth to the new ZRC series that they have today.

[Ben]

Originally Posted by Boatless-Again

Is the "Garbrecht" Gary Garbrecht?

Yep.