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Old 02-06-2013, 08:21 PM   #1
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P1 crash today

http://www.thisishullandeastriding.c...#axzz2V5QJDYD8


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Old 03-06-2013, 07:54 AM   #2
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Mmmmm First race?
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:20 PM   #3
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probably tried to go round a corner ! lol
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Old 03-06-2013, 05:51 PM   #4
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Yep, you can tell its an American design can't Ya!
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Old 04-06-2013, 08:05 AM   #5
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Quote:
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Yep, you can tell its an American design can't Ya!
Actually it isn't, they are built in the USA but the boat was designed in house by an Italian.
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Old 04-06-2013, 08:42 AM   #6
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and split/crack just for fun
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Old 04-06-2013, 09:00 AM   #7
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Build

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Actually it isn't, they are built in the USA but the boat was designed in house by an Italian.
I was gob smacked , when in drivers to see glass hanging out the bottom sides of these boats the build of boat is totally dodge to say the least.
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Old 04-06-2013, 09:53 AM   #8
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Quote:
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Actually it isn't, they are built in the USA but the boat was designed in house by an Italian.
Now I am surprised! Italians generally have a good eye for style. This must have been done with a glass one.
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Old 04-06-2013, 11:37 AM   #9
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Now I am surprised! Italians generally have a good eye for style. This must have been done with a glass one.
Did not some of them get made in Mexico which had quality issues?


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Old 04-06-2013, 01:20 PM   #10
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Quote:
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Did not some of them get made in Mexico which had quality issues?


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By Mexicans in the Fountain factory I was told!
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:41 PM   #11
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There you go John I wasn't too far away lol

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Old 04-06-2013, 08:47 PM   #12
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P1 Panther

I understood that the newer ones are stripped and rebuilt in the UK to make them suitable for racing. Even though they are designed and sold primarily as "race boats"...
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Old 04-06-2013, 09:02 PM   #13
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P1 Panther boat test Southampton Water
Monday 15 April

At the ORC meeting 1 March it was agreed that the ORC would conduct boat tests on the above in order to evaluate the key points of decision raised under item 7 of the minutes. Due to the tight time scales involved and the availability of ORC members none of the committee was able to attend. It was therefore agreed by the ORC Chairman that JP would arrange to meet with Neil Holmes and carry out the required tests. The testing was carried out in Southampton Water using the race training practice circuit, two boats were provided for the test, Typhoo in standard 2012 race set up and Helvetica Wealth modified to ORC requirements.
This report sets out the findings of the tests.
The ORC required P1 to complete the following actions prior to testing:
1. The engines should be lowered as much as possible
2. The engine lifter jacks should be disabled
3. Removal of as much weight as possible from the bow area to improve longitudinal centre of gravity
4. Boats should be tested using different props
5. The steering should be modified to reduce number of turns.
As previously stated two boats were provided for testing purposes, Typhoo in standard 2012 racing set up i.e. no modifications to steering, no ballast added, standard Bravo 1: 26 inch pitch propeller.
Helvetica Wealth was provided with the ORC modifications as listed below:
1. The engine lifter had been lowered to its lowest possible setting; approx. 75mm below standard. The engine was lowered on the lifter to maximum possible setting approx. 65mm below standard, it is not possible to lower the engine further as it fowls the aft cowling.
2. The engine lifter was disabled
3. No additional weight was placed in the boat and the bow tank was disabled
4. The boat was fitted with a Laser 2: 25inch pitch propeller
5. The steering was modified with new hydraulic hoses with a slightly larger diameter than standard
Upon arrival JP and NH discussed the technical developments and modifications since the inception of the series, this is more fully described in the separate report from Neil and a further document from P1 (Panther Initial History). In addition to this a CD is provided showing the results of testing of the Panther boat in a variety of sea conditions during the winter.
This technical review was followed by an in depth discussion regarding the powerboat race training syllabus provided by Neil. I am of the opinion that the race training provided is of an extremely high quality and covers all of the elements necessary to train those new to the sport or those returning for refresher courses. I would however re-emphasise the importance of competitors getting as much “seat time “ as possible before racing as there is no substitute for experience and time in the boat.
On completion of this part of the review we joined the boats and proceeded to the test area, as there was only one person in each boat additional weight was provided to the co driver’s position in order to replicate the additional crew. For the first test session Neil was driving Helvetica and I was driving Typhoo.
The conditions on the day were wind SSW 25-30 kts, sea state choppy with random wash from ferries and commercial traffic, visibility good with some spray. The course is approximately 1.4nm in length with four 90° turns taken in an anticlockwise direction.
The agreed format of the testing was as follows, NH initially driving Helvetica would drive at speed around the race course and JP in Typhoo would follow as closely as possible behind with the brief to place the boat on the wash/wake and monitor performance, stability and handling characteristics especially when crossing or riding on the wash. The results of this test are as follows:
Steering: The steering was adjusted to approximately 75% tension. I drove the boat at full speed around the course only backing off slightly when required, the steering whilst heavy was responsive and required less than half a turn to take each of the 90°corners. At no time was it necessary to wind the wheel excessively and the feedback from the wheel was positive and easy to appreciate. It is not possible to pin turn corners with these boats as speed is scrubbed off very quickly, the boats must be driven smoothly and the steering allows for this to be done accurately.
Stability: The boat was driven at full speed and positioned just behind Helvetica in the following situations:
1. Cornering left on inside of wake leaning to port at full speed
2. Cornering left on outside of wake initially leaning to starboard but then turning to port
3. Crossing wake in both directions
4. Cornering whilst encountering wash from commercial traffic and on wake
5. Cornering into wind, wind on beam, wind astern
At no time during the above tests was it possible to de stabilise the boat although it was necessary to apply corrections to prevent chine walking and maintain overall control of the boat. In my opinion this was no more or less than would be required of other boats in a similar situation.
Windscreen: The windscreen was a typical polycarbonate construction found on P1 Panther boats, the screen had optical imperfections which whilst not ideal did not in my opinion prevent me from safely reading the water or sea conditions. During the tests some spay was present but in these conditions did not adversely affect performance.
General Notes: The P1 Panther as a race boat is heavy, has moderate to poor acceleration but is relatively smooth to drive. The boat did not exhibit any dangerous tendencies or vices and in my opinion is no more or less dangerous to drive than many other similar boats. It is important to recognise however that a step hull boat handles differently to a non-step hull and additional driving skills are required. Having completed approx. 40 minutes of testing in Typhoo we swapped boats, I now followed in Helvetica and the following results were observed.
Steering: The steering on this boat was tensioned to approx. 50% of tension and although it was still heavy in my opinion it was slightly more responsive than that found on Typhoo. It should be noted that the steering can be adjusted to suit the drivers preference and sea conditions of the day. Again it was not necessary to excessively wind the wheel and the boat was easy to control.
Stability: In general the boat was less stable than Typhoo, the Laser propeller gave rise to much more bow lift and this resulted in the boat skying as we passed over some of the larger commercial washes. Cavitation and chine walking were also more evident probably due to the decreased pitch. Despite these characteristics the boat never became seriously de stabilised during the tests.
Windscreen: This boat had a similar screen and the same comments apply.
Conclusions: In my opinion the revised set up on Helvetica resulted in a less stable platform, there were no positive reasons to adopt these changes other than the driver’s personal decision to change the tension of the steering. I would therefore recommend the following:
1. Engine heights be set at 2012 levels or as Typhoo set up
2. Engine lifters be permanently disabled as there is no advantage to using them
3. Standard production propellers as per 2012 season be used
4. No additional weight is placed in the bows and where possible weight reduced.
5. Driver training and seat time for new inexperienced drivers be increased to ensure competence of driving step hulls in all conditions. ORC to define.
6. The Class is kept under review during 2013 and all incidents reported to ORC for evaluation.
Important note:
This report is based on the boats used and the conditions found on the day of testing.
John Puddifoot
RYA Powerboat Racing Manager
8 May 2013
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Old 04-06-2013, 09:18 PM   #14
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Quote:
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I understood that the newer ones are stripped and rebuilt in the UK to make them suitable for racing. Even though they are designed and sold primarily as "race boats"...
This is something I was told last year, after the dabacle of transoms breaking up on earlier models. Newer models were unpacked and re-jigged for racing in the UK.

Quote: "I would however re-emphasise the importance of competitors getting as much “seat time “ as possible before racing as there is no substitute for experience and time in the boat". Spoken by someone who HAS the experience. It's not possible to just turn up and race on Day or Provisional Licences in this type of racing. Experience counts.
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Old 05-06-2013, 07:46 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciao View Post
P1 Panther boat test Southampton Water
Monday 15 April


At no time during the above tests was it possible to de stabilise the boat although it was necessary to apply corrections to prevent chine walking and maintain overall control of the boat. In my opinion this was no more or less than would be required of other boats in a similar situation.
Windscreen: The windscreen was a typical polycarbonate construction found on P1 Panther boats, the screen had optical imperfections which whilst not ideal did not in my opinion prevent me from safely reading the water or sea conditions.

John Puddifoot
RYA Powerboat Racing Manager
8 May 2013
That's OK then no reason why they should ever roll over! (but they still do)

With respect I would suggest that in a situation with no safety cover and no incentive to push to at least 100% it is very difficult to recreate a full on race situation with more than one other boat on the course - A fair test? At best I would say inconclusive and only any good for comparison testing of two setups and not the overall ability of the boat to be safe.

By the way those screens are horrible!

IMHO I think that stepped hulls on a tight circuit like P1 are pretty pointless.
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Old 05-06-2013, 09:00 AM   #16
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Are the American's rolling them?
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Old 05-06-2013, 09:49 AM   #17
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Old 05-06-2013, 01:18 PM   #18
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In all fairness the Evinrudes breaking saddles probably don't help the stability either.

The St Cloud video shows flat water and just a few boats with multiple crashes - To me that would be evidence enough of the inherent instability of the boat, especially given the amount of testing and development by very experienced racers and race instructors that presumably was aimed at making them as safe as possible?
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:23 PM   #19
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I spoke to Asif Rangoonwala about these boats in Monaco back in February.

"Hey Man, not a good brand fit for P1 Superstock that we lost a life last year".

Dave Holley, the sponsor of the boat turned round and said, "Not great for our name either".

Peters & May pulled their support from P1 Superstock this year.

When are people going to work out these boats are not fit for purpose?
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Old 06-06-2013, 12:08 AM   #20
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I think it's the boats breaking motors imho. But we can speculate but on the flip side if you look back and look at any old footage of the history it tells a tale.
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