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Old 27-09-2009, 08:17 PM   #1
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Phantom 23 bottom pictures

Hi,

I hope you all are well.

I have a 1985 Phantom 25 with twin Merc 2.5 EFI SS engines. I am planning together with a well known boat builder to cut a notch in the transom of my Phantom to achieve a better bowlift. He has been working with Spirit Of Norway Offshore Class One before.

If I am correct the 23 feet Phantom has a notch in the transom. I would be very happy if someone you find out how large it is in centimeters / inches, and if possible add some pictures of the bottom so we can get a closer view of how Steve Baker did it. I know the 23 is different to the 25, but I think a 5-8 inch notch will get the boat out of the water easier. It runs very flat now, and added setback makes the boat sitting very low in the water at the dock.

Hope the best!

Cheeers, ToffenG
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Old 27-09-2009, 10:20 PM   #2
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cant you just fit tabs?
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Old 27-09-2009, 11:07 PM   #3
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Phantom 23 bottom pictures

Hi!

I have tabs. They do not help to get bowlift. Then you need Arnesons Rocker Plates. I see now that the 23 did not have a notch, only a pad on the end of the keel. The 25 has a more rounded keel. I have tried to add 2 inch spacer between the engines and transom. I picked up speed, but the boat sits too low when still. So adding a notch should keep the boat afloat aft as before, but give it a better balance running at speed.

Cheeers, ToffenG
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Old 28-09-2009, 12:51 AM   #4
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Old 28-09-2009, 12:45 PM   #5
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What about Phantom 28? Have the same problem like P25? Or are different designs?
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Old 28-09-2009, 01:30 PM   #6
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No, the 23 doesn't have a notched transom.

As with all the later Baker designs, it has a pad keel that 'morphs' out of the inner most spray rails running aft.

We added a notch to the Extreme 26 (Mike Ring Design) that we raced in 1997 to acheive the same thing you're looking to do.

It worked in that it improved the bow lift and allowed higher speeds (we were doing just shy of 80mph), but this mod, and the moving aft of the C of G that we also did, definitety reduced the boats' rough water ability.

Also, it's worth remembering that the reduced hull volume of an 8" notch will to some degree reduce the bouyancy aft, so your boat will sit lower in the water at rest.
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Old 28-09-2009, 08:10 PM   #7
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Maybe you should fit some toobs to the sides to help keep it out of the water at rest!

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Old 28-09-2009, 09:54 PM   #8
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Hi!

Thanks for your input Jon. I am very satisfied with the rough water capabilties, so your experience will definitly be taken into consideration. It runs very flat and is predictable at high speed. Amazing how fast it can ride when its rough.

I have played with engine height and setback. The propheight is now approx. 1,2 inch below the bottom. When I raised the engine 0,75 inch, I lost bowlift. So the current height seem to be the best.

I will experiement more with props. The fastest per date is a pai of blueprinted Mirage 25 props pulling the boat to 87 mph at 7,400-7,500 rpms. So this translates to a good slip figure. The question is if its much more to gain really. The engines are 2.5 EFI SS (280 hp each) with Brucato PSU's. I see Jon uses 2 x Chopper 28 inch props. I tried a pair last summer, but they were not 100%. So I will try to get hold of a blueprinted pair.

Cheeers, Toffen
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Old 28-09-2009, 11:35 PM   #9
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toffen somewhere i have a pic of your 28 when it was at the factory i seem to remeber it had a single outboard big white job evinrude ?
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Old 28-09-2009, 11:36 PM   #10
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i mean 25
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Old 29-09-2009, 09:31 AM   #11
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Toffen, I would persevere with props etc before I started cutting a perfectly good boat around. It would be a shame to upset the handling.
I think your boat wasn't built particularly light, so maybe if 90mph could be acheived, that might be a realistic top end figure. When I next speak with Steve I'll ask his opinion.
The Mercury Mirages are the fastest props I've tried on my 28, however, that boat doesn't exactly struggle for bow lift, as it's C of G is less than perfect thanks to the silly engines I have installed. Have you tried Bravo 1's, or Hydromotive Intimidator Quad 4's?

rgs

Jon

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToffenGunnufsen View Post
Hi!

Thanks for your input Jon. I am very satisfied with the rough water capabilties, so your experience will definitly be taken into consideration. It runs very flat and is predictable at high speed. Amazing how fast it can ride when its rough.

I have played with engine height and setback. The propheight is now approx. 1,2 inch below the bottom. When I raised the engine 0,75 inch, I lost bowlift. So the current height seem to be the best.

I will experiement more with props. The fastest per date is a pai of blueprinted Mirage 25 props pulling the boat to 87 mph at 7,400-7,500 rpms. So this translates to a good slip figure. The question is if its much more to gain really. The engines are 2.5 EFI SS (280 hp each) with Brucato PSU's. I see Jon uses 2 x Chopper 28 inch props. I tried a pair last summer, but they were not 100%. So I will try to get hold of a blueprinted pair.

Cheeers, Toffen
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Old 29-09-2009, 09:40 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larby View Post
Maybe you should fit some toobs to the sides to help keep it out of the water at rest!

That's it, you're banned!
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Old 29-09-2009, 09:45 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris View Post
i mean 25

Hi!

Chris; yes it was fitted with a single Evinrude V8 Offshore 3,6 litre. The boat was bought by Jon Benad Ugland in 1985 directly from Steve Baker. I have owned it since 1998. And it will never be sold. I rather have it on a shelf somewhere. Its a classic.

Jon. Thanks

Cheers, Toffen, Norway
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Old 29-09-2009, 03:15 PM   #14
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Hi!

Jon; I forgot to tell you about the props. I am also running a pair of labbed Quad IV X O/B SST props. Top speed has been 76 mph at 7.300 rpms. The props carry the bow good, but the 4 blade also lift the transom. I have tried a stock pair Bravo 26 props, and I managed to squeeze 76 mph there as well. A labbed version may get a couple more. Absolutely a thought.

Evolution 4 is also a worth a try. Unfortunately Tempest 3 blade is not delivered in 25 -27 pich left hand.

Cheeers, ToffenG
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Old 29-09-2009, 04:00 PM   #15
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Mid 70's seems horribly off the pace with that kind of power. Those 25's (albeit lighter ones) ran mid 70's with XR2's @ 200hp.
I think a lot of the 4 litre P25's ran cleavers, which on face value doesn't sound like a good choice, but one has to assume they worked ok.

Maybe Eric Smillie could chip in here, as he prepared and raced a competitive P25 back in the 1930's whilst in his 40's
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Old 29-09-2009, 04:40 PM   #16
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Phantom 25

Hi

G & W Racing

Phantom 25 2 x the 1st XR2 s ( 162 hp ) 2.1 gear boxes 28 inch Mercury cleavers 6200 rpm 73-75 MPH ( prop shaft centres level with bottom of boat )
Possible the best race boat until the CUV

I was only 27 then Jon.


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Old 29-09-2009, 04:45 PM   #17
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I remember chatting with Steve some time ago, and he reckoned that a P25 set up right with the 192hp XR2's 'should' run 80 or more, I guess your figures based on XR2-162's backs that up.

As for 27, bollox! in 1930 you were at least 40.


And why are you logging in as your wife you old fool?
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Old 29-09-2009, 05:45 PM   #18
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Darens P25 with twin Xr2's ran 78 on its first run after being re rigged, it was fitted with ET Lightning's. I think they were 28 pitch.
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Old 29-09-2009, 07:05 PM   #19
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p25

i had a bit of fun a few years back in a p25 twin , race no d66,excellent hull only surpassed by xs sunseeker i had the good fortune to race in with ian sanderson and peter dredge when it was known as quinetiq ithink its now dean gibbs.rbo8 boat , remember being really pissed of because they cancelled the ctc after we all went out to muster due to the rough weather but wede had couple of good days racing prior to that.....still both of them loads of fun ,good luck with your boat
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Old 29-09-2009, 07:18 PM   #20
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Hi!

I truly sorry, I did some wrong numbers here!

Mirage 25 plus: 87 mph at 7.400-7,500 rpms, 1:1,87 gears, 2 persons
Hydromotive 25 4 blade: 86 mph at 7.300-7,400 rpms, 1:1,87 gears, 2 persons
Bravo 26 4 blade: 86 mph at 7.300-7.400 rpms, 1:1,87 gears, 2 persons

For your info the boat ran 76 mph with a single Promax 300 turning a Tempest 25 to 6,300 rpms, 1:1,75 gear, 1 person. So running 87 mph with 2 x 280 is not that far off.

Cheeers, Toffen
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