Re spray - Page 2

deepvee · 17-07-2012, 10:38 AM

looks great, huge, just out of interest john, you seem to know everything about phantoms, did you ever work with steve baker, or just know him as a mate, and has he ever been out in your 28 ,ps sorry for going off topic

Jon Fuller · 17-07-2012, 10:46 AM

Not 'worked' with him, other than what we did together on the 28 (I did quite a bit on it myself prior to it leaving 220 London Road), he is a friend, but never managed to get him out on mine, he's getting on a bit now (sure he wouldn't mind me saying that).
His workforce at the time were a bit more interested, as unlike Steve, they'd not really done any boating! especially in a 28, so we had a day out with two of them (Alan & Derek) and their other halves. I think it was a bit of a rude awakening for them.

deepvee · 17-07-2012, 10:49 AM

any idea how many 28 s were ever built, also 16 / 18/ 20/ 21, because all hulls are numbered, i suppose steve would have an idea of how many boats he produced ?

Jon Fuller · 17-07-2012, 10:51 AM

14 sport decks (mk I & II) and one cruiser deck.

Mine is a MkII sport deck (one of 5) and the last 28 built. In fact, almost the last boat 'period' from Phantom, only a P23 and a couple of OCR/Ski race boats came after mine prior to them closing the doors for good. The Recreational Craft Directive was the last straw for Steve, so only race stuff, or home completion (mine) were built after the new RCD ruling came in as these were exempt.

deepvee · 17-07-2012, 10:59 AM

wow end of an era, but all there efforts will be around for years, also john i was looking thro the gallery and noticed an original phantom brochure, im not sure whose it was, just wondered if you had it or had scanned it and could send me a copy ?

Jon Fuller · 17-07-2012, 11:08 AM

It was steve macgreggors, I have a scan somewhere, will look it up.

deepvee · 17-07-2012, 11:09 AM

thanks

RossM · 17-07-2012, 11:32 AM

http://boatmad.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4031

ELK · 17-07-2012, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john walmsley

Hi
I paint cars for a living. The overall finish would look the same if painted and prepped corectly,a decent 2k paint or lacquer would be just as hard.

It would be more fragile then the gel coat though. Best to paint it the same colour as the gel.

Hope this helps. John

Ok, so my problem here is that I'd want to change its colour, I take it then that that would be a no no?

Jon Holmes · 17-07-2012, 04:34 PM

No, you can change its colour and it will look great as it leaves the paint shop but from their on it will be downhill al the way! Remember, if you paint a white gelcoat boat white any scratches will not be so obvious. If you paint a black boat white it will look awful once it has a few scratches on it unless you keep it wrapped in cotton wool or re-paint regularly.

What exactly do you want to achieve? If you want to use it for racing just paint it and off you go. If you want to make a tired and faded hull look like a million dollars, forget it. You can't polish a turd!

ELK · 17-07-2012, 05:08 PM

Thanks Jon and others for help.

Sorry to drag this on but..

Assuming the boat is already painted a colour and white underneath 'original gel' is it reasonable to assume that the new paint could be rubbed right back and off to start again or would you then be damaging the hull too much? Ie is there a limit to how many times a hull can take this treatment?

Jon Holmes · 17-07-2012, 05:29 PM

You need to know why the boat was painted in the first place? Gelcoat repairs, crazing, cracking, faded etc.

If the paintwork on the boat is good and sound and the hull requires no repairs then it is possible to flat the paint back and re paint over the top. If the paint is bad and repairs are needed, I would want to take the paint all off back to the gelcoat so i could decide whether it was sound enough to warrant any further expenditure. Paint can hide a multitude of sins (hence Jon Fullers comment about it devaluing a boat. If a buyer can't see what is under the paint he is likely to think it is hiding something and look elsewhere).

If a hull is painted the Gelcoat first has to be sanded to provide a key for the new paint. This abrading removes a small amount of gelcoat reducing the overall thickness. When the paint is knackered, someone else strips the paint off and starts the process again thus reducing the thickness of the gelcoat further still. As to how many times this can be done to a grp hull, well that would depend to a certain degree on the thickness of the original gelcoat and the extent of sympathy exercised by the person doing the re-paint each time and as time is money it is unlikely that it has been done carefully each time. Also vinyl ester is better suited to the loss of gelcoat as it is reported to be resistant to osmosis, a condition that Gelcoat is there to protect the GRP from in the first place.

Once again, what do you want to achieve?

Jon Fuller · 17-07-2012, 05:46 PM

If the boat in question is a Phantom, they only have a single application of gelcoat, then a touch up of the 'sparse' areas.

All in the name of lightness and keeping the gel layer thin and flexible, but it doesn't help when it comes to pre paint prep, as explained by Jon. It's waffer thin, just like an after dinner mint.

Jon Holmes · 17-07-2012, 05:49 PM

"After Dinner Mint"! Lol

ELK · 17-07-2012, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Holmes

You need to know why the boat was painted in the first place? Gelcoat repairs, crazing, cracking, faded etc.

If the paintwork on the boat is good and sound and the hull requires no repairs then it is possible to flat the paint back and re paint over the top. If the paint is bad and repairs are needed, I would want to take the paint all off back to the gelcoat so i could decide whether it was sound enough to warrant any further expenditure. Paint can hide a multitude of sins (hence Jon Fullers comment about it devaluing a boat. If a buyer can't see what is under the paint he is likely to think it is hiding something and look elsewhere).

If a hull is painted the Gelcoat first has to be sanded to provide a key for the new paint. This abrading removes a small amount of gelcoat reducing the overall thickness. When the paint is knackered, someone else strips the paint off and starts the process again thus reducing the thickness of the gelcoat further still. As to how many times this can be done to a grp hull, well that would depend to a certain degree on the thickness of the original gelcoat and the extent of sympathy exercised by the person doing the re-paint each time and as time is money it is unlikely that it has been done carefully each time. Also vinyl ester is better suited to the loss of gelcoat as it is reported to be resistant to osmosis, a condition that Gelcoat is there to protect the GRP from in the first place.

Once again, what do you want to achieve?

Sorry Jon if I appear to be avoiding this question. I just have a couple of options open to me and wondering what might be involved and what might be possible.

You've been really helpfully on this one, much appreciated

Jon Holmes · 17-07-2012, 06:24 PM

No Problem.

Cookee · 18-07-2012, 08:47 AM

You could always wrap it, That's how ours is done ..........

Paul E · 18-07-2012, 09:16 AM

Wrapping is a great option these days, although the surface needs to be good underneath, and all chips/scratches filled first.

ELK · 18-07-2012, 09:57 AM

Great idea, I'd love to go black on a boat, any ideas of cost for this process, again say 21-23 feet? And anyone around south coast that could do it?

Paul E · 18-07-2012, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ELK

Great idea, I'd love to go black on a boat, any ideas of cost for this process, again say 21-23 feet? And anyone around south coast that could do it?

Around £350 for materials I'd guess, on my boat we were able to get both sides out of one length as the roll was wide enough. Used about 12m total I think. Any good sign writers should be able to help you, I'm lucky that my brother is a sign writer so I didn't have to pay labour!