Resurrect the Cowes - Torquay

[Ben]

Originally Posted by flightracingteam

Just to give a small History lesson the first Cowes- Torquay was held in 61 and was won by a boat called Thunderbolt driven by the great Tommy Sopwith with an ave speed of 25 MPH. The following year it was Tramontana with an Ave speed of 37 MPH. As we all know the speeds did not really get going until the 70's and even then the speeds hit the mid 70's. Like i said times have moved on.

.

Dear Professor Manchester,

Your history lesson is much appreciated but actually between 1961 and 1968 the speeds ranged from 24.4mph to 48.6 mph according to the offshore bible. The quantum leap came in 69 with Aronow driving his Cary 32 and averaging 66.5.

Your humble and grateful student.

Ben

[BluFin]

Dont forget those are average speeds over 250+ Nm, Open water racing not spectator can racing. There is a big difference.

RYA are you conversant with the "Peter Prinicple"

[Matt]

Dear Professor Mazer,
Your history lesson is much appreciated but between 1961 and 1968 the speeds ranged from 24.5mpg to 53.0 mph according to THE offshore bible (Graham Stevens)
Your humble and grateful student.
Matt

Originally Posted by Ben

Dear Professor Manchester,

Your history lesson is much appreciated but actually between 1961 and 1968 the speeds ranged from 24.4mph to 48.6 mph according to the offshore bible. The quantum leap came in 69 with Aronow driving his Cary 32 and averaging 66.5.

Your humble and grateful student.

Ben

[Ben]

Have I mis-read the bible according to Crouse?

[Matt]

What does crouse say surfury's speed was in 67?
http://media.boatmad.com/gallery/v/g...rquay.Pdf.html

[Ben]

Um.......er...............53.

Please don't call on me again Sir.

[blind dog]

does any one know if theres anymore talks on bringing the race back,i would have thought it would need planing soon,

[blind dog]

i was told at the weekend theres a possability the race may run as torquay cowes torquay does anyone know if this is of truth

[Jon Fuller]

I'm hopefull that something will happen re: CTC.

I've spoken to a few people and all agree that if the rules could be sorted so that there's a very simple setup, mebbe only two generic class's, if you don't fit one, you get lumped into the other, a bit like it was with Touring, and Grand Touring and with rules that don't encourage out & out race boats, but rather 'poker run' type boats, there could be quite a few who would have such a boat, for that one race a year, a couple of poker runs, and a bit of performance pleasure boating.

Every year all the old fossils gather at Cowes, they come as much to see their old pals that they haven't seen since the last Cowes, as they do to watch the racing. Those guys would ALL love to do the famed CTC, even if it were run as a Poker Run or ralle, or even as pleasure navigation type race. I include myself in the 'fossil' list.

If there was only that one race each year, they wouldn't be terrified of busting the boat all the time poker running, or pleasure boating because of upcoming events, so they'd actually get used outside of the race arena, making a powerboat a worth while thing to have.

Many of the RB boats will be a tad redundant after june next year, and I'm sure such an event would be perfic for those.

I don't think we should talk burty big bollocks about doing loads of similar events, coz it'd ruin it.

One race a year, not too many rules (if any), ideally no licence, idealy no RYA.

It's enough of an endurance event, to attract those who remember real offshore, and enough of a famous title, that I can honestly say I don't know anyone that I feel would say 'na, not interested'.

Nick and I would be up for it, that's for sure, but the thought of doing a season long load of races, jumping through hoops for organisers whilst throwing £50 notes at em doesn't appeal. The essence for me is the 'One race a year' aspect with no red tape, or dickheads with clipboards.

Probably not run out of the Cowes Yacht haven though, as I think they charge Powerboat P1 £25K for using the haven, which would make this type of thing a non starter.

Tony Hamilton reckons he could have quite a few boats based out of his yard on the Medina, could be a start at least.

I think it's a realistic thing to hope for, as the cost of doing it, still only runs over one weekend, as long as the base on the Solent isn't a crazily priced. I'm assuming the Torbay Yacht club would help at that end of course.

[blind dog]

i got the feeling it had been talked about but running in reverse,i dont know how true,he also said he wasnt sure if p1 were going back to cowes cos of costs amongst other things,all i do know is the ctc is a race you should do at least once and i would for sure

[Jon Fuller]

CTC-1 max engine capacity 13 litre, minimum length 24 feet, minimum weight 1500 kilos. no headers allowed in CTC-1

CTC-2 anything bigger than the above

No canopies, no forced induction petrol engines

Cats in seporate class maybe.

simple, lests go.........

[blind dog]

ile have some of that

[Mike Lloyd]

Tricky one this. P1 still hold the Rights to the CTC until 2009 and then the Rights return to the BPRC. The trouble is they (BPRC) will probably not DO anything with it.

I don't know what P1 would do if 20/30 boats sneaked out of the Medina, lined up in the Solent and shot off to Torquay. I should imagine there would be lawyers from P1 jumping up and down all over the place and certainly the Harbour Master wouldn't be too pleased. I would love to be there though and many others would also.

Frankly the BPRC have got themselves into one hell of a mess with the CTC. They have licensed the race to P1 for a pittance and were walked all over by P1 and then P1 don't run the race, which incidentally they should be doing according to what I have seen. Someone needs to unravel the whole mess but I am a loss as to how. Unless of course you run it as a Rally, race, sorry Rally, down to Torquay, stay overnight and race/rally back next day, could that be possible? Or, do it as a Poker run or is that too ridiculous?

[TonyToll]

Originally Posted by Jon Fuller

CTC-1 max engine capacity 13 litre, minimum length 24 feet, minimum weight 1500 kilos. no headers allowed in CTC-1

CTC-2 anything bigger than the above

No canopies, no forced induction petrol engines

Cats in seporate class maybe.

simple, lests go.........

But this would mean I could'nt run mine

[Jon Fuller]

Originally Posted by OldMan

Tricky one this. P1 still hold the Rights to the CTC until 2009 and then the Rights return to the BPRC. The trouble is they (BPRC) will probably not DO anything with it.

I still don't believe that a bit of paper, can stop say, me, organising an event that happens to run from the solent, to torquay, and back. it's absolutely nuffink to do with them. If it meant running it as a 'form' of poker run, so be it.

All this talk of a club 'owning the rights' to an event, is exactly what I mean about red tape, the RYA, and all the other hoop jumping bollox were expected to swallow, coz they say we have to!

If i decide to have a fast run down to torquay and back, I can, if I choose to invite roger severy along with his boat to run alongside, I can. there ya go, we already have a race! anyone else wanna come?

[Jon Fuller]

Originally Posted by TonyToll

But this would mean I could'nt run mine

what motors u running on the RB?

[blind dog]

if it came to it and you decided to organise it and you want help count me in

[Jon Fuller]

I'm not sure I'm qualified, and also sure there's already plenty of people/clubs that would be happy to if the need for it became strong enough. But, you never know.

I'd seriously love to do it without any connection to the powerboat mafia. their greed would kill it overnight.

If it were this 'once a year' event with most competitors being old timers, who don't race at present in any official classes, non of the drivers would give a shit about about being dragged over the coals by the mafia for competing in an event not sanctioned by them, so they could go 'swivel' as far as I can see.

Bring on the revolution!

[rama]

i'm sure most if not all of the p1 drivers would be up for it too, if you think about it they turn up to race not for the bo**ocks that seems to follow soon after. surely a historic race like ctc would get them all snatching at the bit for something a bit more special than round the cans?

[verytricky]

Originally Posted by Jon Fuller

I still don't believe that a bit of paper, can stop say, me, organising an event that happens to run from the solent, to torquay, and back. it's absolutely nuffink to do with them. If it meant running it as a 'form' of poker run, so be it.

All this talk of a club 'owning the rights' to an event, is exactly what I mean about red tape, the RYA, and all the other hoop jumping bollox were expected to swallow, coz they say we have to!

If i decide to have a fast run down to torquay and back, I can, if I choose to invite roger severy along with his boat to run alongside, I can. there ya go, we already have a race! anyone else wanna come?

There is, as far as I know, nothing stopping you from running such an event without any race club, RYA or UIM involvement. However, any RYA affiliated club and any RYA licence holder would get 'done' for participating in such an event, and a non-licence holder may find their right to hold a licence later would be refused, rendering participation in any future event run under UIM or RYA rules difficult.

But if you are determined to run 'outside' the system, you have the law on your side, giving you the right to do so. However,,, not having the RYA onside will make it more difficult to get official sanction from the harbourmasters. Not having that will have impact on insurance if you were to have a 'race'. Racing without specific insurance for racing means that any damage caused by anyone participating is not covered by your standard insurance, which will be hugely financially disasterous if something went wrong. Getting insured without the backing of the officially recognised body is interesting, but not impossible.

In summary, you can definately do it, but it would probably be better to organise it 'within the rules' by using an RYA affiliated club, and running it as a basic race, with event licences for the competitors. An RYA affiliated club may be able to negotiate a financial deal with the RYA for a block of event licences, and getting the various permissions or approvals to run the event from the harbourmasters will be a lot easier!