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Old 30-12-2009, 07:36 PM   #41
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Old 30-12-2009, 10:49 PM   #42
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Larby,

What kind of money have you been quoted to make the hull sound again?
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Old 31-12-2009, 07:47 AM   #43
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Old 17-01-2010, 06:38 PM   #44
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Well, i got a bit of time this weekend so I cracked on with the hull. More great news...

Ground the stringers out, they were in about 20 pieces each, no surprises there!

Sadly i then found that all the surrounding glass was delaminated. Inbetween the stringers and the bottom of the 'v' is a 7" wide strip of balsa, this is well and truly soaked in something, feels/looks like sunflower oil, smells like marzipan but I'm guessing it's water, not salty though.

It seems the structures of the hull were built in some time after the hull skin was made, so they're not chemically bonded together as one, they're two seperate bits stuck (ish) together.

My issue now is that I can't just flap disk the area around the stringers as this has all delaminated to a varying degree. My only option would be to cut out and remove all of this glass somehow, along with the balsa, to try to get back to the outer skin.
I started doing that today and promptly managed to cut straight through the bottom of the hull. Much swearing followed and I promptly gave up. I really can't see repair being viable any more?

Anyone got any suggestions or opinions before I chainsaw the hull in half?

I really couldn't be more down about it all. I put everything i had into buying this boat thinking that it was from a reputable manufacturer so would be good and strong, spent ages checking all i could before i bought, and now it turns out I bought the one 'back door' boat that trio (or whoever it was) made to the standard of a bath tub.

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Old 17-01-2010, 06:50 PM   #45
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That's rough!

I feel extremely sorry for you there. everyone knows how I feel about cowboy outfits knocking out a load of shite, ultimately damaging the good name of the boatbuilder proper. In this case, we/you have no idea who actually laminated it, or decided on the laminate schedule, or timing of how it all went in. and as we know from the Gav/Extreme saga, the timing is more important than many realise. Fortunately for those on the receiving end of the Gav saga, TD stands by the product and things get sorted (eventually )

Have you called Pete Berrows and told him?

I think some fierce grinding (take no prisoners) and wack plenty back in, then some decent longits. It might end up heavier than you really want, but hey, it'll float, be strong and not be a total loss that way. Gotta be worth at least considering.

If you feather back all the delamed area, as close to the skin coat as you dare, and go in with plenty of combi, doubling at least what you think it should be and extra under the longits, you'll be ok. (proper longits mind!) If you could get some scaff boards long enough, they're great quality and all the grain goes the right way. Still don't see how you can sucessfully join at the engine bulkhead though. Would want them to run aft.

Balsa's lovely, if it's done right, and looked after.
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Old 17-01-2010, 06:57 PM   #46
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Well, i got a bit of time this weekend so I cracked on with the hull. More great news...

Ground the stringers out, they were in about 20 pieces each, no surprises there!

Sadly i then found that all the surrounding glass was delaminated. Inbetween the stringers and the bottom of the 'v' is a 7" wide strip of balsa, this is well and truly soaked in something, feels/looks like sunflower oil, smells like marzipan but I'm guessing it's water, not salty though.

It seems the structures of the hull were built in some time after the hull skin was made, so they're not chemically bonded together as one, they're two seperate bits stuck (ish) together.

My issue now is that I can't just flap disk the area around the stringers as this has all delaminated to a varying degree. My only option would be to cut out and remove all of this glass somehow, along with the balsa, to try to get back to the outer skin.
I started doing that today and promptly managed to cut straight through the bottom of the hull. Much swearing followed and I promptly gave up. I really can't see repair being viable any more?

Anyone got any suggestions or opinions before I chainsaw the hull in half?

I really couldn't be more down about it all. I put everything i had into buying this boat thinking that it was from a reputable manufacturer so would be good and strong, spent ages checking all i could before i bought, and now it turns out I bought the one 'back door' boat that trio (or whoever it was) made to the standard of a bath tub.

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Old 17-01-2010, 06:57 PM   #47
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I haven't called Pete as right now I'd rather run him over. It was him who requested the 'cheap' part, and i wouldn't be surprised if it was him who did the latter part of the glassing.
Like you, i just can't see why you'd build a boat like this, it's diabolical. How pete slept after selling it on and not telling the poor sucker is beyond me.

I had been cutting it out in sections, hence cutting through the hull as it varies from 1" to 5mm in places. Maybe a flap disk would be better.
Do i need to be crapping myself this much about going right through?

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Old 17-01-2010, 07:02 PM   #48
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Do i need to be crapping myself this much about going right through?

James
No.

if you go through here & there, once all the new laminate is in, dressing those bits underneath with a dremel and doing local gel repairs is a walk in the park.

Don't skimp on the laminate!
I'd probably glass something down the centreline too, to make up for the balsa that won't be there. a simple former, and loads of combi. remember, it sits on the trailer on that centreline.

The shit work is all that grinding out and feathering. putting the new stuff in will be quite therapeutic and rewarding.
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Old 17-01-2010, 07:29 PM   #49
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Dowdy - I really would love to go for no.3 but we're having to buy a flat sooner than thought now, so i just haven't got that option.
I did have an offer to buy the revenger, but i was holding off until I knew the full picture. Now i know this she'll either be repaired by me, or cut in half. I don't do selling crap, i know all too well what it's like to be on the recieving end!

Jon - As you said I'm gonna have to go all the way to the transom now. The balsa runs all the way to the back so it'll all be sodden. If this part is delaminated then I can only assume the back bit could be.

The odd thing is that it doesn't seem to be. At some stage someone has modified the hull by removing the rear 3 feet (the length of the engine bay) of the middle strake, the one the longit sits in. This begs the question 'what the hell is the longit now sat on?! The gel repair underneath is a bit cracked, but it all seems structurally sound. In the engine bay it's like a different builder built the boat. All the glass is nice and thick, all properly done and no apparent delamination. With the joins in the stringers, it makes me wonder if someone has already re-done the longits at the back? This is what's making me think of trying to leave that bit as is.

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Old 17-01-2010, 07:50 PM   #50
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Jon - what kinda effect do you think the extra laminate will have on speed? She seems very very thin at the mo (hull flexes under my feet), and seems to be made purely from chopped strand.
The area of delamination is pretty much everything under the chine, so quite a large area!
What is 'combi'? Is it the woven one or the one that's stitched together?

I've got a friend who makes pools so can get all the glass and resin cheap, shame i can't use the glassing gun they use to make pools, man that'd save some time!!

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Old 17-01-2010, 07:53 PM   #51
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I wouldn't worry about the weight, if you look into it, carrying an extra 10 galls of fuel would likely weigh more, but this NEEDS doing, so don't worry.

A floppy bottom is slow anyway, it needs to keep it's shape, so you might not see any difference if it's stiffer
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Old 17-01-2010, 07:55 PM   #52
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Dowdy - I really would love to go for no.3 but we're having to buy a flat sooner than thought now, so i just haven't got that option.
I did have an offer to buy the revenger, but i was holding off until I knew the full picture. Now i know this she'll either be repaired by me, or cut in half. I don't do selling crap, i know all too well what it's like to be on the recieving end!

Jon - As you said I'm gonna have to go all the way to the transom now. The balsa runs all the way to the back so it'll all be sodden. If this part is delaminated then I can only assume the back bit could be.

The odd thing is that it doesn't seem to be. At some stage someone has modified the hull by removing the rear 3 feet (the length of the engine bay) of the middle strake, the one the longit sits in. This begs the question 'what the hell is the longit now sat on?! The gel repair underneath is a bit cracked, but it all seems structurally sound. In the engine bay it's like a different builder built the boat. All the glass is nice and thick, all properly done and no apparent delamination. With the joins in the stringers, it makes me wonder if someone has already re-done the longits at the back? This is what's making me think of trying to leave that bit as is.

James
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Old 17-01-2010, 08:09 PM   #53
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Ha ha, no, definately no more littleuns! This one I've got is having a serious effect on the boat fund!!!

Jon - Maybe thats why she was never that fast!! Considering she's built like a bath and very narrow, I'd expected it to be quite quick, there must be something holding it up!

Do i need to worry about it losing shape with all the inside cut out? it's only sat on the vinery floor and propped up at the back at the mo.

Oh, and there's a longit down the centre too, seems ok but i may as well take it out too. There's a bit of a hook at the back.

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Old 17-01-2010, 09:45 PM   #54
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Just as a thought and you'd know allot more than me about it JF ...

Gordon mentioned about a guy who had the Revenger 25ish mould somewhere and it may be possible to strike a deal to laminate a few up, although this was a year or so back and the mould was not in the UK, and also I have no idea how the cost of a new hull build only, would work out against a large investment in doing up a hull in such bad repair
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Old 17-01-2010, 10:51 PM   #55
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As far as i know the moulds are now in sweden. I've asked around and the cost of an absolutely new hull is working out around £6k to £15k.
In the long run this would without doubt be the better option with a much higher resale value, but as a 25 year old with a baby and needing a house, i just simply can't pay out a lump sum like that.
On the other side, with my contact for glass and resin, i can rebuild the revenger bit by bit as and when i've got spare money from cash jobs and overtime. We rekoned about £500 for the materials plus my spare time to do the work.
I can get that past my girlfriend, turning up with a new hull would be a different matter! It's repair the revenger, or be without a boat for 3 years plus, hence how upset i am about the current situation!

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Old 17-01-2010, 11:13 PM   #56
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Ha ha, no, definately no more littleuns! This one I've got is having a serious effect on the boat fund!!!

Jon - Maybe thats why she was never that fast!! Considering she's built like a bath and very narrow, I'd expected it to be quite quick, there must be something holding it up!

Do i need to worry about it losing shape with all the inside cut out? it's only sat on the vinery floor and propped up at the back at the mo.
Oh, and there's a longit down the centre too, seems ok but i may as well take it out too. There's a bit of a hook at the back.

James
i lack in experience in this in the powerboat world (never done anything even close) i have seen a dinghy repaired from a t bone incident on a non true floor with half of the internal structure removed. it was wonky when the repair was finished and all the repairs had to be cut out the boat re flexed back into shape and then re glassed. much smaller job so easy to do. i would make it square as poss with stands that run along 90 deg to the V. thats what they ended up doing with the dinghy.
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Old 18-01-2010, 08:46 AM   #57
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Like you, i just can't see why you'd build a boat like this, it's diabolical. How pete slept after selling it on and not telling the poor sucker is beyond me.James
Unfortunately Larby, boating is an expensive hobby and some people will cut corners in order to get what they want at a price they can afford.

Im sure Pete "Strawb's" Berrow would have slept as well as any other night of the year.
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Old 18-01-2010, 09:14 AM   #58
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Having just looked back through the pictures on this thread, I would say that whoever put those structures in, or decided how they'd be done, doesn't have a scooby doo about the subject. They're shocking! Doing it the way it was had nothing whatsoever to do with cost, and everything to do with having no f*cking idea about the subject in hand, or the loads involved. A total waste of good wood & glass.

I guess the key is, know your limits. If you don't know about something, ask someone who does, asking is usually free.

When we were doing the 32, I was asking Steve Baker stuff literally on a daily basis, because his 40 years of experience was sure to produce something good and dependable, whereas my 30 seconds, wasn't.
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Old 18-01-2010, 02:14 PM   #59
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My thoughts exactly. The best bits are the joins in the longits and the fact they're only half glassed in! They were bedded in pure resin.
I know basically how it all should go back in, with feathering the layers and bedding them down properly, but where could I find the info I need on how to do it exactly right? I'm sure there are several little tricks I should know about, but I don't wanna pester the hell out of someone!

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Old 18-01-2010, 02:38 PM   #60
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Until you've ground the best part of the damage out and posted some pics it's hard to say.
All I can offer is my own humble opinion based on those photos & details.

You mentioned getting/keeping it all true during this process, which is a good point and will need some thought. Luckily, once all that shite is out, the skin will flex with relative ease, and I'm sure with some decent timbers, and weights (as in lumps of cast iron or similar) you'll be able to get to a point where the bottom shapes up ok against a long straight edge, and while it's held that way, get some glass & stiffening in. It can't be 'that' far out at the mo?

It's all a real shame, coz they're a lovely shape, and in the pic of it at the vineyard, it looks great.
J
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