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07-05-2013, 04:45 PM
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#21
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Senior Member
Country: UK
Location: Devon
Occupation: Garage Proprietor
Interests: PowerBoat Racing
Boat name: If Only
Boat make: Bernico F3 OCR, Bernico Prototype Inboard, and some Ribs
Engines: Yamaha Pro V 115
Cruising area: UK, France
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Devon
Posts: 3,095
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Cigarette Top Gun 41 chucked the crew of 5 out at speed and would have continued around in circles just the same had it not gone some distance up the bank, so not a simple RIB issue
Wireless Kill Switches are available but still need to be on the driver (Coastkey)
Unfortunately it comes down to education and keeping the lanyards attached to your life jacket.
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If Only
National Outboard Immersed Propeller Mono Record 103mph
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07-05-2013, 06:57 PM
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#22
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Registered User
Country: england
Location: surrey
Engines: none at the mo
Cruising area: south coast
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: surrey
Posts: 472
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rib accident
the rib accident is just a freak accident, you cant condemm ribs because of it, if somenoe gets killed in a ford escort you cant condemm that make of car, ive always thought that it would be easy to get swept off the deck of a rib because they are so open, but buoncy wise, i think many of us have experienced turning around in the harbour mouth because it is to choppy to go out in a small hard boat, but the ribs fly out still looking stable and buoyant, and safe
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07-05-2013, 07:11 PM
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#23
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Registered User
Country: Guernsey
Occupation: Postie
Interests: Heavy Heavy Metal
Boat name: Slayer II, Slayer, Pen15
Boat make: Phantom 19G-R, Bernico F2 Extreme, Ring 15
Engines: Evinrude 115HO, Yam 90
Cruising area: Channel Islands
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,460
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In general I've found them to be much more 'forgiving' than a hard boat, but that is a pretty sweeping generalisation. Jockey seats are a lot safer than just having a simple upholstered box to lean against like a lot seem to have these days to increase deck space
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07-05-2013, 08:46 PM
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 174
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Ribs
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepvee
the rib accident is just a freak accident, you cant condemm ribs because of it, if somenoe gets killed in a ford escort you cant condemm that make of car, ive always thought that it would be easy to get swept off the deck of a rib because they are so open, but buoncy wise, i think many of us have experienced turning around in the harbour mouth because it is to choppy to go out in a small hard boat, but the ribs fly out still looking stable and buoyant, and safe
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I have already said on he that I am not knocking ribs after all the RNLI use them to save lives my question is changing the centre of gravity to much higher one could be the reason why all end up in the water when the boat hooks and only asked would it be better to lower the deck in way of seating where the hell did you get condemn from on this thread.
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08-05-2013, 08:03 AM
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#25
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Registered User
Country: england
Location: surrey
Engines: none at the mo
Cruising area: south coast
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: surrey
Posts: 472
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ribs
Quote:
Originally Posted by russ williams
I have already said on he that I am not knocking ribs after all the RNLI use them to save lives my question is changing the centre of gravity to much higher one could be the reason why all end up in the water when the boat hooks and only asked would it be better to lower the deck in way of seating where the hell did you get condemn from on this thread.
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i wasnt saying you or anyone on here has condemned ribs, it was just my point of view, just expressing my opinion if thats ok with you
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08-05-2013, 08:42 AM
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#26
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BananaShark Member
Country: UK
Location: Salcombe South Devon
Occupation: Racer and builder
Interests: Winning races
Boat name: BananaShark
Boat make: BananaShark 34' Race
Engines: Twin Yanmar BY 260's
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Salcombe South Devon
Posts: 4,638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russ williams
Hi Cookee do you think the ride hight on some of these high performance ribs are just to high and the counter lever effect is so high no one stands a chance of staying in the boat.should decks be dropped in way of high speed seating as apposed to fitting large fuel & water tanks ,then having no room to drop the deck.
Do you think top sides are being cut to low for looks and handling goes out the window
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Lowering the deck isn't going to work, you'll end up with less usable deck space and no room for fuel, it also wouldn't make any difference as you would only get down an inch or so in reality. As I said, never been a fan of jockey seats as in a hook you get thrown out, nothing is going to change that.
Sprung no friction throttles will do nothing for what's already on the market and it would make boats harder to drive in choppy conditions.
As OCRDA says there are a few wireless kill switches now but they are more expensive than the standard lanyard and they don't seem to be widely accepted as yet. They also work by submersion as we ll as range so one would have worked in this instance.
Russ - this was a 300hp RIB and it would have had hydraulic steering (no self steering on a boat of this type), if you look at the video the boat is going in quite tight circles and that would have been on the same lock as when the helm left the boat meaning it was hard over at a considerable speed which would go some way to explain what happened. Additionally from the video it was very calm meaning that the boat didn't hook as a result of wave action unless it was crossing its own wake.
Deepvee - This sort of accident will always happen in a RIB before a hard boat because of the seating - inescapable fact - it doesn't mean they should be condemned but respected!
PaulE - Forgiving maybe but many or even most RIB hulls are derived from hard boat designs!
__________________
Cookee
British Champions! RIB Formula 1 2005
National Speed Record Holder at 90.15 (still)
www.bananasharkracing.com
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08-05-2013, 09:00 AM
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 174
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Thanks to all
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cookee
Lowering the deck isn't going to work, you'll end up with less usable deck space and no room for fuel, it also wouldn't make any difference as you would only get down an inch or so in reality. As I said, never been a fan of jockey seats as in a hook you get thrown out, nothing is going to change that.
Sprung no friction throttles will do nothing for what's already on the market and it would make boats harder to drive in choppy conditions.
As OCRDA says there are a few wireless kill switches now but they are more expensive than the standard lanyard and they don't seem to be widely accepted as yet. They also work by submersion as we ll as range so one would have worked in this instance.
Russ - this was a 300hp RIB and it would have had hydraulic steering (no self steering on a boat of this type), if you look at the video the boat is going in quite tight circles and that would have been on the same lock as when the helm left the boat meaning it was hard over at a considerable speed which would go some way to explain what happened. Additionally from the video it was very calm meaning that the boat didn't hook as a result of wave action unless it was crossing its own wake.
Deepvee - This sort of accident will always happen in a RIB before a hard boat because of the seating - inescapable fact - it doesn't mean they should be condemned but respected!
PaulE - Forgiving maybe but many or even most RIB hulls are derived from hard boat designs!
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Thanks to all for your input ,what we can all take from this is all ways put your kill switch lanyard on .
And if I ever build a rib I would consider rails for life lines on high performance models.
Thanks again Russ
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08-05-2013, 09:27 AM
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#28
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numbskull
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
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For what it's worth, anytime I've ever run quickly in a conventional rib, I've always felt very much 'on' it rather than 'in' it and extremely vulnerable, and any sudden change of direction such as a hook would certainly result in a rapid involuntary dismount and rapid exit of the craft. Much rather have some high combing next to me up to shoulder height to keep me in in such an event.
Not saying it's impossible to be thrown from a hard boat at all, but my experience tells me the rapid involuntary exit would be far more likely in a traditional rib hooking at speed, than in a traditional hard sports boat doing the same.
Haw many hard race boats hook throughout a seasons racing, not many crews leave the boat, but a hook in a jockey seated rib would take some staying in in even a moderate hook IMVHO.
Obviously a kill switch won't stop you getting chucked out in the first place, but it would have saved lived in this instance. Very sad.
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"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
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08-05-2013, 09:33 AM
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#29
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Registered User
Country: england
Location: surrey
Engines: none at the mo
Cruising area: south coast
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: surrey
Posts: 472
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involuntary dismount / exit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Fuller
For what it's worth, anytime I've ever run quickly in a conventional rib, I've always felt very much 'on' it rather than 'in' it and extremely vulnerable, and any sudden change of direction such as a hook would certainly result in a rapid involuntary dismount and rapid exit of the craft. Much rather have some high combing next to me up to shoulder height to keep me in in such an event.
Not saying it's impossible to be thrown from a hard boat at all, but my experience tells me the rapid involuntary exit would be far more likely in a traditional rib hooking at speed, than in a traditional hard sports boat doing the same.
Haw many hard race boats hook throughout a seasons racing, not many crews leave the boat, but a hook in a jockey seated rib would take some staying in in even a moderate hook IMVHO.
Obviously a kill switch won't stop you getting chucked out in the first place, but it would have saved lived in this instance. Very sad.
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not a time for smiles i know, but i had to chuckle at the way you put that jon
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08-05-2013, 09:52 AM
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,891
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Are there any UK suppliers of coastkey?
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCRDA
Cigarette Top Gun 41 chucked the crew of 5 out at speed and would have continued around in circles just the same had it not gone some distance up the bank, so not a simple RIB issue
Wireless Kill Switches are available but still need to be on the driver (Coastkey)
Unfortunately it comes down to education and keeping the lanyards attached to your life jacket.
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08-05-2013, 12:52 PM
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#31
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 364
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Cookee - I was always taught that the centrifugal force of the prop would eventually cause the boat to operate in a circle, even if steering was dead-ahead when skipper gets thrown out .....or isn't that the case with fully hydraulic steering?
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08-05-2013, 01:12 PM
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#32
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 54
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No one can say for sure if the boat wheel was hard over, the Driver could have pulled the wheel over as he left the boat .
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08-05-2013, 07:56 PM
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#33
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Registered User
Country: Belgium
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 96
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boats are safe, their drivers not always
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08-05-2013, 08:53 PM
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#34
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: Guildford
Occupation: Charity Audit Partner, haysmacintyre
Interests: Anything with wheels or an engine
Boat make: GTX530, Marshan 21
Engines: 125 Opti/150 Pro XS
Cruising area: Solent
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Guildford
Posts: 78
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This is a tragic event, and we can all summise what may have happened. At least rya powerboat level two teaches you some basics like ensuring you have a lanyard on.
Having never been in a powerboat or rib properly until just over two years ago, all teaching/courses run appear to be carried out on ribs and when they do speed runs I think I does give you a false sense of security in a rib. Perhaps powerboat testing should be carried out in a mixture of powerboats and ribs so that people appreciate the different characteristics. Those of you with a wealth of experience, far more than I, may also find it ridiculous that with a powerboat level two and a £10 fee I have an international certificate which allows me access to European harbours. Without it those far more experienced than me can be rejected access to foreign harbours. More education is key to improving safety but also compulsory training before your able to buy a 50+mile an hour boat/rib/jetski for less than 5k with no knowledge/experience of how to handle it.
Personal opinion.
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09-05-2013, 08:08 AM
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#35
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BananaShark Member
Country: UK
Location: Salcombe South Devon
Occupation: Racer and builder
Interests: Winning races
Boat name: BananaShark
Boat make: BananaShark 34' Race
Engines: Twin Yanmar BY 260's
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Salcombe South Devon
Posts: 4,638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blimp
Cookee - I was always taught that the centrifugal force of the prop would eventually cause the boat to operate in a circle, even if steering was dead-ahead when skipper gets thrown out .....or isn't that the case with fully hydraulic steering?
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If that were the case you would never get a boat to go in a straight line! Non return valves in hydraulic steering prevent any feedback at all reaching the helm meaning that the steering stays where you put it.
Pain-Terra28 - The video shows the boat turning in quite a tight circle, with standard leisure steering even half a turn on the wheel wouldn't result in a turning circle that tight.
Matt - It doesn't look like Coastkey have a UK distributor but Autotether does - http://www.fastnetmarine.com/autotet...alarm-13-c.asp
__________________
__________________
Cookee
British Champions! RIB Formula 1 2005
National Speed Record Holder at 90.15 (still)
www.bananasharkracing.com
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