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08-10-2008, 07:07 AM
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#81
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: London
Occupation: Electrical Engineer
Interests: Retired Ski Racer, Ski Racing Photography, Steam Railway Fireman
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: London
Posts: 220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larby
On the bright side, i've decided i'm going to rig her with twin yam 225's.
James
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Good choice
Used to ski behind this 21 Ring with 225 yam's and that seemed to go ok in a straight line
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08-10-2008, 07:59 AM
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#82
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Registered User
Country: Guernsey
Occupation: Engineering
Boat make: None, boo!
Engines: Turbines mainly!
Cruising area: The inside of my workshop!
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,646
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yamahaaaaaaa's
jesus! you really can bolt anything to the back of a R21 eh!
They're not the newest engines, late 80's i believe, but they've hardly been used and are in immaculate condition. Having had a good look over them i'm more than happy with the condition of them and that's what matters the most to me!
Not so keen on the cowlings though, if anyone knows of a pair of later yam cowlings (either top & bottom or just tops) I'd be interested.
Cheers, James
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08-10-2008, 08:30 AM
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#83
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: Weston Super Mare
Occupation: Electrical Engineer
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Weston Super Mare
Posts: 6,351
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what about feeding them with water? do they have to low water pickups are are you mounting remote ones?
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08-10-2008, 08:44 AM
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#84
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: Coventry (but from Lee on Solent)
Occupation: Sales Director
Interests: My Boat of course
Boat make: Extreme 21
Engines: Merc V8
Cruising area: Solent
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Coventry (but from Lee on Solent)
Posts: 587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larby
Nope, but i wouldn't mind hitting 100
Not sure if it'll happen but i'm gonna give it my best shot! I'm mainly looking for a combination of low price and reliability, hance yams, not xr2's.
They've had the saddles welded too so hopefully won't fall off the back!
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Whats all the BS about XR2 reliability??
XR2 is a very reliable motor. Just need to bear in mind they are a race motor and need to be looked after properly. I'm sure (and hope) most racers who have raced (or do race) with XR2's would agree.
Nowadays, they are very cheap and light power with plenty of bang for your buck and spares are plentiful!
A pair recently made it round britain (B28) and an XR2 rigged boat has won the class 3 worlds and if I understand correctly your cat was originally designed for and raced with XR2's - it is (was) a 4 litre cat no?
Might sound like a bit of a rant but as an XR2 owner, I just dont really appreciate people publicly slagging them off!
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The Docta
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08-10-2008, 12:57 PM
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#85
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Traveling
Country: UK
Location: Alderholt
Occupation: Aerospace
Boat name: T/T D2S
Boat make: Midas 27' Cat, Argo 16 Cat. Avon Rib Thingy
Engines: Merc 280-ROS -JSRE,65Xs, 75 Stinger, Yam 60
Cruising area: Any Seedy Bar
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Alderholt
Posts: 4,225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flier
do you still have the Birch????
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No I got divorced....................oops sorry misread the last word
(Think they still have that in the C.I. for speeding powerboaters)
__________________
It is impossible to lick your elbow.
Team25Racing.com
At least 75% of people who read this will try to lick their elbow!
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08-10-2008, 02:06 PM
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#86
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: Thorpe Bay
Occupation: IT Director, www.lighthouseit.co.uk
Interests: Boats, Surfing & Snowboarding
Boat name: Isabella / Cool Runnings II / Bella / Sea Pup / Sea Dog / Speedy II / Bernico F3
Boat make: Colvic 35 Suncruiser / Bernico F3 / Phantom 16 / Zodiac 420 YL / RIB / Apollo 9
Engines: 2 x Perkins Sabre 225ti / Mercury Pro XS /Mercury Pro XS 115/ Tohatsu 2.5 / Mercury 25 / Mercury 50
Cruising area: Thames Estuary / River Crouch / Salcombe
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Thorpe Bay
Posts: 932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Docta
Whats all the BS about XR2 reliability??
XR2 is a very reliable motor. Just need to bear in mind they are a race motor and need to be looked after properly. I'm sure (and hope) most racers who have raced (or do race) with XR2's would agree.
Nowadays, they are very cheap and light power with plenty of bang for your buck and spares are plentiful!
A pair recently made it round britain (B28) and an XR2 rigged boat has won the class 3 worlds and if I understand correctly your cat was originally designed for and raced with XR2's - it is (was) a 4 litre cat no?
Might sound like a bit of a rant but as an XR2 owner, I just dont really appreciate people publicly slagging them off!
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Personally (Based on own experience) I think they suck in the reliability stakes. But by god they sound great!
I have a Yamaha now starts first time everytime (never had a problem in 4 years). If you want to go fast get a Merc, if you want to get home buy a Yam!
__________________
Loving the Spitfire with a 25HP Mercury
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08-10-2008, 02:18 PM
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#87
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Registered User
Country: UK
Occupation: Designin' Stuff
Interests: Boating/4x4s/Fast Cars
Boat name: Namotu
Boat make: Extreme 24
Engines: 383 Mag Stroker
Cruising area: Channel Isles
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 557
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silversurfer
Personally (Based on own experience) I think they suck in the reliability stakes. But by god they sound great!
I have a Yamaha now starts first time everytime (never had a problem in 4 years). If you want to go fast get a Merc, if you want to get home buy a Yam!
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Careful... I've seen some of these Yam Vs Merc arguments on youtube... Next thing we'll be hearing about "moy maiytes gott a yammahar an e ses ver well rubesh cos thair cr@p an e nows wot es torkin aboat cos hees ad wel tons of boauts"
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08-10-2008, 02:22 PM
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#88
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Registered User
Country: UK
Occupation: Designin' Stuff
Interests: Boating/4x4s/Fast Cars
Boat name: Namotu
Boat make: Extreme 24
Engines: 383 Mag Stroker
Cruising area: Channel Isles
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 557
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Oh, and the cat looks slick Larby! She'll be happy round herm next summer!
Sorry your having problems with it... kinda looks like something I could have put together myself!
Where have you found these Yams then? Are they local? Dont know if you saw the deflated rib by the slaughter house, just behind Kev W's blue rib.. The defkated rib had an old 200 on which is now for sale I think...
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08-10-2008, 02:47 PM
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#89
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Registered User
Country: Job Centre
Location: In a box
Occupation: Chaos's gofer
Interests: Skiving
Boat make: Spectre 30
Engines: 2 x Promax 225
Cruising area: In the bath
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: In a box
Posts: 5,201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silversurfer
Personally (Based on own experience) I think they suck in the reliability stakes.
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Really depends how it's maintained, only a problem if you have a chimp work on it!
__________________
Chaos for Moderator.
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08-10-2008, 03:35 PM
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#90
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timtap
Country: England
Location: Paignton Devon
Occupation: Ex Marine Engineer , Licencee
Interests: Photography, Real Ale .
Boat name: Shooters Too
Boat make: Scarab 22SC
Engines: Mercruiser 270hp
Cruising area: South West
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Paignton Devon
Posts: 333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Davis
Really depends how it's maintained, only a problem if you have a chimp work on it!
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A bit unfair on chimps !!!!!
See this : http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1765302
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08-10-2008, 05:17 PM
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#91
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Registered User
Country: uk
Location: poole
Occupation: retail
Interests: sport and being lazy
Boat make: ring rib
Engines: merc xr2
Cruising area: bournemouth bay
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: poole
Posts: 1,681
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Docta
Whats all the BS about XR2 reliability??
XR2 is a very reliable motor. Just need to bear in mind they are a race motor and need to be looked after properly. I'm sure (and hope) most racers who have raced (or do race) with XR2's would agree.
Nowadays, they are very cheap and light power with plenty of bang for your buck and spares are plentiful!
A pair recently made it round britain (B28) and an XR2 rigged boat has won the class 3 worlds and if I understand correctly your cat was originally designed for and raced with XR2's - it is (was) a 4 litre cat no?
Might sound like a bit of a rant but as an XR2 owner, I just dont really appreciate people publicly slagging them off!
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Have run XR2 on pleasure boats since 86/87 and not encountered many problems although I would have them rebuilt every 4/5 years, and I believe the only reason they did not throw a rod etc is because I generally kept them in the 3-4K rev range and with no extended period of revving above 5500 rpm and as the later ones had a rev range up to 7000 it was well bellow that, the downside the later ones probably produce their 190-200hp from 6300 onwards so at 5500 you were probably making 170+ hp but hey they lasted longer I personally recon if you rev em high for long periods they probably will have problems and sooner rather than later ... just my 2 pennyworth
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i can na give her any more captain
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08-10-2008, 07:16 PM
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#92
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Registered User
Country: USA
Location: Las Vegas - Nevada
Occupation: Pit Boss
Boat name: smokeless
Boat make: Hallet 25
Cruising area: Lake Mead
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Las Vegas - Nevada
Posts: 14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluFin
No I got divorced....................oops sorry misread the last word
(Think they still have that in the C.I. for speeding powerboaters)
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know where your coming from partner................
Alimony is like buying oats for a dead mule
in C.I. - Speeding Powerboaters - Nope its only for cat owners who dont know the difference between a pussy and a cat (animal rights and all that !!!!!!!!!)
Its not a beautiful thing
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08-10-2008, 07:41 PM
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#93
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Registered User
Country: Guernsey
Occupation: Engineering
Boat make: None, boo!
Engines: Turbines mainly!
Cruising area: The inside of my workshop!
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,646
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burty
what about feeding them with water? do they have to low water pickups are are you mounting remote ones?
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They're fitted with nosecones but have std pickups, I'll be running remote ones yeah...
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Docta
Whats all the BS about XR2 reliability??
A pair recently made it round britain (B28) and an XR2 rigged boat has won the class 3 worlds and if I understand correctly your cat was originally designed for and raced with XR2's - it is (was) a 4 litre cat no?
Might sound like a bit of a rant but as an XR2 owner, I just dont really appreciate people publicly slagging them off!
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It's based on my personal experience having killed 3. Yes, they are a race motor, and have to be treated as such. No one will tell me you can get 200hp as reliably from 2 ltrs as you can from 2.6 ltrs.
Yes a pair did make it round RB08, and the one that won the worlds was one of those engines. Testament to moose for building them, i'm sure they got rebuilt just before all of this, try running them for the next 5 years and see how they fair, it's not what they do.
This is a public forum and i will post my opinion whether you like it or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy21
Oh, and the cat looks slick Larby! She'll be happy round herm next summer!
Sorry your having problems with it... kinda looks like something I could have put together myself!
Where have you found these Yams then? Are they local? Dont know if you saw the deflated rib by the slaughter house, just behind Kev W's blue rib.. The defkated rib had an old 200 on which is now for sale I think...
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Hi Andy, can't wait to start building her back up, she'll be lovely when i'm done!
The motors are from a guy i know, they are local, they've been stored for years. They used to ski race on a P25 so are all prepared for the hammering i'm going to give them!
I wouldn't want that motor on the rib, it's a long shaft for starters, is prob in poor condition and doesn't have the saddle plated, cheers for the pointer though!
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfun
Have run XR2 on pleasure boats since 86/87 and not encountered many problems although I would have them rebuilt every 4/5 years, and I believe the only reason they did not throw a rod etc is because I generally kept them in the 3-4K rev range and with no extended period of revving above 5500 rpm and as the later ones had a rev range up to 7000 it was well bellow that, the downside the later ones probably produce their 190-200hp from 6300 onwards so at 5500 you were probably making 170+ hp but hey they lasted longer I personally recon if you rev em high for long periods they probably will have problems and sooner rather than later ... just my 2 pennyworth
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Couldn't agree more. Mine would spend the vast majority of their llives getting a hammering so would break down, regularly. I will be getting the yams rebuilt every now and then, but i'd bet any amount they'd last longer under the same usage than the mercs!
If anyone can build me two xr2's with 200 hours from new and known history on 20" legs with counter rotating gearboxes and sell them to me for £3200 with steering, wingplates, tie bar and every part needed to totally rebuild both then i'd love to hear from them, i doubt this'd happen though!
Hence why i'm buying the yams!
James
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11-10-2008, 08:40 PM
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#94
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Registered User
Country: Guernsey
Occupation: Engineering
Boat make: None, boo!
Engines: Turbines mainly!
Cruising area: The inside of my workshop!
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,646
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Interior ripout!
Got down to the boat again today and attacked the interior and stern...
Interior first, I removed all the carpets and the ply floor that hadn't been glassed. Seemed to be normal household ply too!
Under this was yet more of the 2x4 i've found everywhere else! Seemed to be made from the offcuts from the lovely transom bracket.
Got all of this wood out to take things back to how they used to be, it'd been screwed through the sides with 4" wood screws that had all rusted... Removed it all with a crowbar!
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11-10-2008, 08:49 PM
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#95
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Registered User
Country: Guernsey
Occupation: Engineering
Boat make: None, boo!
Engines: Turbines mainly!
Cruising area: The inside of my workshop!
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,646
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Dash & Electrics
The electric rigging in this boat is the only part which can make the transom job look professional!
Every wire (except for 2) was red 1.5mm. It was run through household conduit down each side of the boat, the conduit had holes made in it with a pair of pliers, giving a nice jagged sharp edge - perfect
All of these wires went to a lovely household junction box and on to the battery via... yep, 1.5mm red wire again!
Behind the gauges was a complete birds nest of wires, i got the motor's loom out of the middle and then cut the rest out. I removed all the gauges and put em to one side.
Also found the salmon controller for the bow tank while i was there... found out why it wasn't moving too (apart from all the silicone blocking the pickup)... the cable was snapped. Oh joy.
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11-10-2008, 08:55 PM
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#96
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Registered User
Country: Guernsey
Occupation: Engineering
Boat make: None, boo!
Engines: Turbines mainly!
Cruising area: The inside of my workshop!
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,646
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Forgot to add the pic of all the wires and bits of 2x4 from the floor... oh, and my mate's number plate!
Took the lifting eyes out of the front of the tunnel while i was down off the boat... thank god they've missed the bow tank... some quality drilling here Seeing what they were fixed through, i'm suprised they didn't rip straight through when she was lifted!
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11-10-2008, 09:00 PM
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#97
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Registered User
Country: Guernsey
Occupation: Engineering
Boat make: None, boo!
Engines: Turbines mainly!
Cruising area: The inside of my workshop!
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,646
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Dash re-shape
When i took er out for a spin with Pash, my knees really only just fitted under the dash and i didn't like the layout at all, the gauges were all at different levels too!
It'll be the same idea as before but higher up and deeper, then the gauges will be fitted in the dash bit, not the part behind it where they used to be. It'll also have a bit more shape to the bottom part when it's rebuilt too...
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11-10-2008, 09:05 PM
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#98
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Registered User
Country: Essex
Location: Great Stambridge Essex
Occupation: Director Paving company
Interests: Boating/Squash
Cruising area: Essex Marina/crouch southeast coast
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Great Stambridge Essex
Posts: 2,033
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Are you slating the previous owners for there add ons or saying you bought a boat that you wish you didnt cos you never looked into properly? i think you have got to remember your buying a boat thats prob 20 years old, the rigging has proberly been added and bodge time after time
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11-10-2008, 09:25 PM
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#99
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Registered User
Country: Guernsey
Occupation: Engineering
Boat make: None, boo!
Engines: Turbines mainly!
Cruising area: The inside of my workshop!
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,646
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Some more stern ripout...
Well i still haven't managed to get those bits of 2x4 out of the middle, i swear there's some sort of dark force keeping them attached to the boat!!
From removing the 'centre transom thing' the middle of the stern was wrecked. The only way was to cut the whole lot out and start again...
First i took the two supports out of the middle, these just came out with a hit from the hammer and took all of the glass from the floor with them. Good job there then!
I then marked and cut down each side and gave it a swift kick from inside the boat. The whole lot flew off and was followed by a load of water. I really don't know where all of this water has come from... it looks like it's been underwater!
I stuck my finger in the puddle that remained on the top of the transom so you can see how deep it is...
First photos show the removal of the supports on the inside...
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11-10-2008, 09:32 PM
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#100
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Registered User
Country: Guernsey
Occupation: Engineering
Boat make: None, boo!
Engines: Turbines mainly!
Cruising area: The inside of my workshop!
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,646
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taz
Are you slating the previous owners for there add ons or saying you bought a boat that you wish you didnt cos you never looked into properly? i think you have got to remember your buying a boat thats prob 20 years old, the rigging has proberly been added and bodge time after time
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Are you saying that because i decided not to buy your engines??
As I've stated several times now to people who didn't read the thread properly, i bought this as a project. I looked around the boat for almost a whole day, including taking her out and was well aware that i was intending to completely rebuild her properly.
Yes she is a 20 year old boat, however all of this bad work was done by the one owner before Martin and yes, i am slating him because i find his work so amusingly bad.
If you want to know the reason... It's so that everyone can have a look at the state of her and have a comparison to look at as i put her back together.
It's supposed to be a light hearted and informative thread about rebuilding a boat that's had some really poor work done on it in the past, i don't see why some people have nothing better to do than criticise. If you don't like it for some reason then simply don't look!
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