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Old 25-06-2013, 11:43 PM   #41
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That is because no one is running 150's !! They are all Ho's so 200 was the obvious limit although this should really have been capped at 200hp not 200Xs, 200Ho etc. adde to this there is already a 150ho class anyway.
France have binned their 100 & 150 classes for that very reason. It is actually working very well as the 150ho's 150 verado etc are happily competing with 200's as they are here.

So they have V200, V200pro Sport 2ltr (3c) and sport 3ltr I dont understand French but everyone seems happy with 35+ entries.
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Old 26-06-2013, 08:11 AM   #42
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xs

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Originally Posted by Adam View Post
Not really true Brian - this was all on legal advice / insurance issues etc.!
what insurance! we were told that national rules did not have to be the same as international rules,and do you really think that changing the name of the class to bcc would make the boats safer in the eyes of so called insurers,grow up and stop pulling the wool over competitors eyes,and dont forget where this canopy rule started and why,remember because i do!!!
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Old 26-06-2013, 08:22 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by OCRDA View Post
France have binned their 100 & 150 classes for that very reason. .
the real reason is they are getting rid of all the old 2 strokes in favour of epa motors and 4 strokes,so your motor is doomed,get real and move forward,stop living in the past
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Old 26-06-2013, 10:23 AM   #44
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the real reason is they are getting rid of all the old 2 strokes in favour of epa motors and 4 strokes,so your motor is doomed,get real and move forward,stop living in the past
Far from it !! our dirty 2 stroke class is still very strong and now the XS has gone away from epa the future is looking even better.
Not to mention the V8 inboards !!
How is the V24 testing going ??
You coming to Six Fours or Menton ??
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Old 26-06-2013, 11:16 AM   #45
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You have done nothing but slag epa motors from day one. Ridiculous.
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Old 26-06-2013, 11:27 AM   #46
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Yep !!
However the 4 stroke Yamaha's are awesome and I would run nothing else on my Ribs or for general leisure. Although I think "Racing" and "EPA" (green) is an Oxy Moron.
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Old 26-06-2013, 12:24 PM   #47
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Ridiculous

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Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
You have done nothing but slag epa motors from day one. Ridiculous.

The way Etec's & xs's run more fuel efficient is by injecting fuel directly into a pocket in the piston after the piston has already travelled up the bore & closed the ports, meaning you get no wasted fuel traveling straight out the exhaust like you do on the conventional 2 stroke engine.
Because the fuel is trapped in a small pocket you still get a complete burn at an air to fuel ratios far leaner than ever possible to run in a conventional engine, circa 40:1.

Unfortunately in order to combat the pressure inside the chamber and be able to inject the fuel against this you need either a large compressor like the xs's to pressurise the fuel rail or a very large charging circuit to drive a massive set of injectors like the etecs....however this saps 5-10% power.

Peak power on conventional AND direct engines is made slightly right of Stoich (14.7:1 AFR) so at WOT the ECU cant run the 'lean burn' mapping yet you are still having to run that compressor/ huge injectors.

So yes pretty silly to use a Direct engine if you are running it WOT all the time...
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Old 26-06-2013, 12:40 PM   #48
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Getting back to the point though
Its a bit ridiculous to ask an engine rated at 200 to race against one rated at 280 or 260 HP
This year,we raced a Bernico with 260 flat out and finished five minutes ahead of the smaller class that included XS ,200s etc,after 40 minutes of racing.

Now whether we were in the right class ourselves racing against twin rigs and V8s we will never know .At least we gave it a go tho !
Racing is Racing at the end of the day.
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Old 26-06-2013, 01:45 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RossM View Post
The way Etec's & xs's run more fuel efficient is by injecting fuel directly into a pocket in the piston after the piston has already travelled up the bore & closed the ports, meaning you get no wasted fuel traveling straight out the exhaust like you do on the conventional 2 stroke engine.
Because the fuel is trapped in a small pocket you still get a complete burn at an air to fuel ratios far leaner than ever possible to run in a conventional engine, circa 40:1.

Unfortunately in order to combat the pressure inside the chamber and be able to inject the fuel against this you need either a large compressor like the xs's to pressurise the fuel rail or a very large charging circuit to drive a massive set of injectors like the etecs....however this saps 5-10% power.

Peak power on conventional AND direct engines is made slightly right of Stoich (14.7:1 AFR) so at WOT the ECU cant run the 'lean burn' mapping yet you are still having to run that compressor/ huge injectors.

So yes pretty silly to use a Direct engine if you are running it WOT all the time...
You have written all this and still missed a key point that you typed. They don't chuck fuel out the exhaust even at wot because of the injector timing. Making them fuel efficient. They burn just what they need.
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Old 26-06-2013, 02:54 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
You have written all this and still missed a key point that you typed. They don't chuck fuel out the exhaust even at wot because of the injector timing. Making them fuel efficient. They burn just what they need.

How did I miss it.........it was the first point in my previous post.


The overlap (time that both intake & exhaust ports are open) at high revs is absolutely minute(see below*) so the actual quantity of charge escaping is very minimal, far less than the parasitic loss of the compressor.

Direct injection engines have their advantage at low revs, but up the top they use more fuel just to run the redundant system and fight the irregular combustion chamber shape(pocket in the piston)

Look at the 3.0L 300X against the 3.2L 300XS despite having a smaller capacity it makes yet makes 25 more horsepower!

All engines have their place, direct injection isn't, and never will be suited to running WOT.


*Even on my ported engine the intake duration is 120 degrees, which at 7000 rpm equates to 0.0028 sec .....hardly enough to 'chuck the fuel out the exhaust port'
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Old 26-06-2013, 03:44 PM   #51
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I am telling you straight from experience that a v4 DI motor uses less than a carburetor I3. So while you are quoting figures at me I have seen a bladder tank go down after racing then filled it again.


Can anyone do a pissing in the wind smiley for this forum? I think it would get used a lot
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Old 26-06-2013, 04:01 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
I am telling you straight from experience that a v4 DI motor uses less than a carburetor I3. So while you are quoting figures at me I have seen a bladder tank go down after racing then filled it again.


Can anyone do a pissing in the wind smiley for this forum? I think it would get used a lot

Paul you need to compare like for like which I why I said the 300X to 300XS,

Block & porting is very similar
Same Material & size piston rings
Same Motorola ECU
Same Intake manifold
Same oil injection system

A 20 year old petrol injection car wouldn't do the same mpg as a modern petrol injection car would.

So its not fair to compare a modern, refined engine to an old badly designed engine, Its well known that carbed engines are jetted rich because they don't have the advantage of temperature sensors or an ECU to add extra fuel on hot days.
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Old 26-06-2013, 04:22 PM   #53
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Old 28-06-2013, 05:14 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racing Pirate View Post
Last night at a Bermuda Power Boat Association AGM they banned my 200xs from running in class with XR2's and told me I would have to race against the Merc 280's. And the main protestors who is here on BM Forums said he don't care if Mercury made my motor to replace the XR2 (which he has),this is Bermuda rules.
I just wonder why xr2's weren't banned when they came out,and started to whoop their predecessors.and come to mention it,the predecessors on their predecessor? It could go all the way back to canoes. At the end of the day the man with the xr2 needs to keep up with the times.Stop making the rules suit himself,and except newer motors might be a tad quicker.
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Old 28-06-2013, 07:27 PM   #55
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Andymac it is not a XR2 class, it is a 200 carb NO fuel injected class. Hey 200Xs is the future, it needs to take over the 280's class as they are expensive and will be hard to get parts soon.
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Old 28-06-2013, 09:46 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andymac View Post
I just wonder why xr2's weren't banned when they came out,and started to whoop their predecessors.and come to mention it,the predecessors on their predecessor? It could go all the way back to canoes. At the end of the day the man with the xr2 needs to keep up with the times.Stop making the rules suit himself,and except newer motors might be a tad quicker.
Xr2 became the standard for uim and was only really used in the European market from what I understand. You could still use a black max as it was 2ltr but obviously the xr2 was a racing motor.

I stand to be corrected though
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Old 29-06-2013, 02:39 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savage racing View Post
Andymac it is not a XR2 class, it is a 200 carb NO fuel injected class. Hey 200Xs is the future, it needs to take over the 280's class as they are expensive and will be hard to get parts soon.
Funny how you say its not an XR2 class when you imported an XR2 specifically to run in that class and no other...i wonder why...lol!!! If not what was your reason to import the motor...definitely wasnt to run in Mod. D class.

The rule states... To be a stock engine,an outboard motor must be sold and advertised by an outboard company as being manufactured in a standard production series,with all parts being interchangeable with those parts used in the construction of a normal pleasure engine. (There are certain modifications allowed in the Stock class,but an offshore midsection,alien cowl and speedmaster gearcase are definitely not among those options)

Im never known Mercury Marine (not Mercury Racing) to sell and advertise a 200hp 2.0L (or 2.5L) black max carburated powerhead with a offshore midsection,2.5 alien engine cowl and speedmaster gearcase as being manufactured in a standard production series motor..... Maybe i missed something over the years???

Also i like how you said "it needs to take over the 280's class!" Just say thats were you want me to run!
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:19 PM   #58
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Well we finally got things sorted out and it's FINAL we will not be running in the Mod D Class.
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