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Old 13-08-2013, 09:15 PM   #181
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15 is the best we can do!

Not a secret, but the BPRC team think it is time to take a rest from running this Event.

Enjoy the Cowes Classic 2013!
Oh boll###s, I have not fulfilled a huge desire to compete in this legendary race, and it seems the writing may be on the wall.
Will be there as part of the spectator fleet to watch the start, but not the same if we know this is the last one.
Thank you Mike and John for keeping it going for so long.
Very kindest regards
James
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Old 13-08-2013, 09:32 PM   #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wickedtopspeed View Post
Oh boll###s, I have not fulfilled a huge desire to compete in this legendary race, and it seems the writing may be on the wall.
Will be there as part of the spectator fleet to watch the start, but not the same if we know this is the last one.
Thank you Mike and John for keeping it going for so long.
Very kindest regards
James
Still a few boats that would be happy to have a paying passenger - No doubt they will PM you James.
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Old 13-08-2013, 09:47 PM   #183
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John Moore deserves a medal for getting the entries in for this years race, and pulling it together once more. The problem is that to put this event on you have to work for almost six months for NO reward.

Well done and thanks John, if this is the last year, lets make it a great race and enjoy it!
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Old 13-08-2013, 10:01 PM   #184
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agreed top job john well done and thank you !! i might have a seat
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Old 13-08-2013, 10:02 PM   #185
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The Italians are very jealous of the entry list for this year's race, see the post today on Roma Offshorespeed race 2013 page on Facebook. One up to BPRC I 'd say!!
Thanks you John and co for keeping the dream alive!
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Old 14-08-2013, 08:59 AM   #186
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Ctc

As one of the ORDA committee who put on Torquay ,I know only to well the difficulties of putting on race as we are now talking about only a average of ten boats per race .
Unfortunately with costs now so high to run a successful event and accommodate all class's you need at least 20 boats to break even .
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Old 14-08-2013, 09:38 AM   #187
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Somehow there needs to be a way to get costs down and reduce all the red tape.

In reality you need 20 boats (maybe slighty less with the Marathon boats) just to make it an event rather than a club gathering.

Good luck to the organsiers and clubs in finding a solution.
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Old 14-08-2013, 09:51 AM   #188
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ADAPT OR DIE….
In 1961 a race to Torquay was instigated by Sir Max Aitken to test and develop the cruising boats of the day into safe reliable means of enjoying the water by individuals and families. Over the first 10 years the race openly welcomed designs of craft in all shapes and sizes from hydrofoils to catamarans ie: Bombadillo, Hydroski, Dart 38, Sea Kife and Fat Cat and they set a maximum limit on the engine of 1,000 hp in total. Sadly the next decade, although exciting, saw the whole purpose of the event descend in to a pursuit of power that resulted in it’s death throes.
Today that same race exists by the skin of its teeth but with the horsepower powering these sea monsters reaching upwards of 2,000hp….way above what the average boater could ever handle, let alone afford’ and as for safety at sea? The reliability of such craft is dubious to say the least and the costs have driven all save a lucky few from the sport and along with them the spectators. The same thing happened with the smaller classes of racers and the number of entrants barely total more than a dozen.
With spiralling fuel costs is it not time we reinvented the game… re- introduce the experimental class, the one off designs and the hybrids…set the max engine output in total to 500hp. . . if motor manufacturers and Formula 1 can get the same or more power from half the engine size why can’t the marine industry? Its time to stimulate the grey cells!
And as for boat designs, has there really been anything new since the RIB which is basically a deep V with a rubber ring? All attempts at reinventing the hull form from wave piercing to tri hulls, sea darts and other such thoughts have been consigned to the mists of time because of the power quest!
In these days of H and S when calling such events races all manner of killjoys emerge to put the damper on such a gathering… whereas a trial would invoke less hostility especially if green fuels, hybrids and experimentals attracted media attention. Let’s revive Tony Needell’s Index of Performance, encourage the privateer back with their home built specials… make an award to the designers for without their input nothing can move forward!
And as for starts… have a pre trial over a measured mile then start them slowest first fastest last and let the elements sort them out, maybe then the powers that be would then allow the RYS startline?
Let’s bring back spectacle to the sport and for god sake simplify the numbering system . . . please! ! !
The first 50 years has served its purpose, craft are now seaworthy, today we have to work to a new set of rules.. with economy as its root…the motoring world has shown it can be done it is now up to the marine world to take note and adapt or die.
Mike James
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Old 14-08-2013, 10:50 AM   #189
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Cowes Classic 2013 - Official Programme

These will be posted out on the 24th of August.

David Sewell, Editor of Raceboat International has produced an Official Programme of this year's event.

Feuturing the history of the Cowes Torquay, entrants and courses.

You can pre-order your copy now!

UK ORDERS £4.50 inc p&p

OVERSEAS ORDERS £5.50 inc p&p

http://raceboatinternational.com/cowes.htm
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Old 14-08-2013, 11:09 AM   #190
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HTS..... solid as a rock

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Lloyd View Post
It would be great Jonathan if you could tell us how HTS handled those difficult seas in the Prologue recently and what speeds you were getting. Obviously she is a bit different ride to Miss Daisy!

ML.
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Hi Mike
Well she's a step up from Miss Daisy as you might imagine. Both boats benefit massively from a heavy dose of tab, giving you either more comfort or more speed for the same level of discomfort! They were always the Achilles heel of MD as the 'leisure' Bennetts were not up to the job(your friendly mockery still rings in my ears!).
We're still experimenting with HTS, with a possible tab upgrade for the winter. In the mean time a bow ballast tank should be in for the CTC which will reduce the reliance on the tabs for now.
Mike Bellamy's drive system has been very impressive. Our main concern has been whether the rooster tail has been big enough! If that's the main issue then it must be good!
I have to say though I've been mighty impressed overall. The liferaft drill was uppermost in my thoughts on that first leg of the prologue off North Foreland when the seas were mountainous. Having nearly sunk my Huntsman 28 in heavy seas with a split hull in big waves I was unsure of a 44 year old boat with a 30 year museum history. She really is absolutely solid though, the proverbial brick outhouse. Several times we fell sideways off a big one and the only damage was to the crew. One piece of toerail trim was lost (now repaired) in the whole race.
The engines have been brilliant. Although only 300hp for now Perkins are working on producing higher HP models this winter and we may benefit from those upgrades as they appear in the market place.
Speeds varied from 20 knots in the worst conditions to 35 in 'average channel chop' on the way to Guernsey and 51(GPS) in the slick south of Jersey on day 3. MD would have been 5-7 knots less for the same conditions.
Let's hope we will still be racing next year. All praise to John Moore for all his hard work and of course to you Mike for previous years. I hope something can be pulled out of the hat to keep this fantastic sport alive. As a relative newcomer it strikes me that Marathon is so different(and ultimately safer) to all other 'powerboat racing' that we could justify asking for fewer restrictions/rules etc and therefore cost.
All the best
Jonathan
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Old 14-08-2013, 11:28 AM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THUNDERBOLT View Post
ADAPT OR DIE….
In 1961 a race to Torquay was instigated by Sir Max Aitken to test and develop the cruising boats of the day into safe reliable means of enjoying the water by individuals and families. Over the first 10 years the race openly welcomed designs of craft in all shapes and sizes from hydrofoils to catamarans ie: Bombadillo, Hydroski, Dart 38, Sea Kife and Fat Cat and they set a maximum limit on the engine of 1,000 hp in total. Sadly the next decade, although exciting, saw the whole purpose of the event descend in to a pursuit of power that resulted in it’s death throes.
Today that same race exists by the skin of its teeth but with the horsepower powering these sea monsters reaching upwards of 2,000hp….way above what the average boater could ever handle, let alone afford’ and as for safety at sea? The reliability of such craft is dubious to say the least and the costs have driven all save a lucky few from the sport and along with them the spectators. The same thing happened with the smaller classes of racers and the number of entrants barely total more than a dozen.
With spiralling fuel costs is it not time we reinvented the game… re- introduce the experimental class, the one off designs and the hybrids…set the max engine output in total to 500hp. . . if motor manufacturers and Formula 1 can get the same or more power from half the engine size why can’t the marine industry? Its time to stimulate the grey cells!
And as for boat designs, has there really been anything new since the RIB which is basically a deep V with a rubber ring? All attempts at reinventing the hull form from wave piercing to tri hulls, sea darts and other such thoughts have been consigned to the mists of time because of the power quest!
In these days of H and S when calling such events races all manner of killjoys emerge to put the damper on such a gathering… whereas a trial would invoke less hostility especially if green fuels, hybrids and experimentals attracted media attention. Let’s revive Tony Needell’s Index of Performance, encourage the privateer back with their home built specials… make an award to the designers for without their input nothing can move forward!
And as for starts… have a pre trial over a measured mile then start them slowest first fastest last and let the elements sort them out, maybe then the powers that be would then allow the RYS startline?
Let’s bring back spectacle to the sport and for god sake simplify the numbering system . . . please! ! !
The first 50 years has served its purpose, craft are now seaworthy, today we have to work to a new set of rules.. with economy as its root…the motoring world has shown it can be done it is now up to the marine world to take note and adapt or die.
Mike James
Hi Thunderbolt,
Some of the most sensible words i have ever seen written on boatmad, i was present at the first Cowes-Torquay as a young boy and regard myself as very fortunate to have seen all the development in the early days. My late father was a circuit racer and our other pastime was watching offshore, as you say innovation was actively encouraged in the early days a good lot of which has been forgotten or re-invented many years later by someone claiming originality. I think to try and encourage potential sponsors and improve public opinion, removing A class, reducing the weight limits for all the other classes and allowing home built and marinised engine and drive systems would be a good start and then in 2 or 3 years time remove B class that way you will encourage development to make the smaller classes faster and more efficient.I would love to be involved but i am not motivated by the current rules or all the red tape.
As this may be the last Cowes-Torquay it seems quite fitting that we have decided to go to Torquay to spectate as i was there for all the previous Cowes-Torquay events and most of the Cowes-Torquay-Cowes races.

Peter
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Old 14-08-2013, 11:49 AM   #192
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dont limit the hp just the amount of fuel, easy. (5000 hp your only going half way to torquay)
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Old 14-08-2013, 01:43 PM   #193
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Cinzano

Markus Hendricks has very sadly withdrawn the Cinzano entry from this year's race.

The BPRC Chairman wishes all competitors a safe and successful race.
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Old 14-08-2013, 03:01 PM   #194
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''Markus Hendricks has very sadly withdrawn the Cinzano entry from this year's race.''

Thats a great shame, I was looking forward to seeing ' Warpath ' give the old German a good run for the money and I should think Eric will feel robbed of the chance.

It is a shame though because Cinzano is allways a specticle and great to see out on the water.
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Old 14-08-2013, 03:09 PM   #195
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Quote:
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''Markus Hendricks has very sadly withdrawn the Cinzano entry from this year's race.''

Thats a great shame, I was looking forward to seeing ' Warpath ' give the old German a good run for the money and I should think Eric will feel robbed of the chance.

It is a shame though because Cinzano is allways a specticle and great to see out on the water.
Just thought has markus pulled out for fear of not finding his way to and back from Torquay !
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Old 14-08-2013, 03:20 PM   #196
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Just thought has markus pulled out for fear of not finding his way to and back from Torquay !
Eric is gutted was so looking forward to getting the chance to show 558 crew what they have lost and I think it maybe for fear of losing !! Claire
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Old 14-08-2013, 03:49 PM   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THUNDERBOLT View Post
ADAPT OR DIE….
In 1961 a race to Torquay was instigated by Sir Max Aitken to test and develop the cruising boats of the day into safe reliable means of enjoying the water by individuals and families. Over the first 10 years the race openly welcomed designs of craft in all shapes and sizes from hydrofoils to catamarans ie: Bombadillo, Hydroski, Dart 38, Sea Kife and Fat Cat and they set a maximum limit on the engine of 1,000 hp in total. Sadly the next decade, although exciting, saw the whole purpose of the event descend in to a pursuit of power that resulted in it’s death throes.
Today that same race exists by the skin of its teeth but with the horsepower powering these sea monsters reaching upwards of 2,000hp….way above what the average boater could ever handle, let alone afford’ and as for safety at sea? The reliability of such craft is dubious to say the least and the costs have driven all save a lucky few from the sport and along with them the spectators. The same thing happened with the smaller classes of racers and the number of entrants barely total more than a dozen.
With spiralling fuel costs is it not time we reinvented the game… re- introduce the experimental class, the one off designs and the hybrids…set the max engine output in total to 500hp. . . if motor manufacturers and Formula 1 can get the same or more power from half the engine size why can’t the marine industry? Its time to stimulate the grey cells!
And as for boat designs, has there really been anything new since the RIB which is basically a deep V with a rubber ring? All attempts at reinventing the hull form from wave piercing to tri hulls, sea darts and other such thoughts have been consigned to the mists of time because of the power quest!
In these days of H and S when calling such events races all manner of killjoys emerge to put the damper on such a gathering… whereas a trial would invoke less hostility especially if green fuels, hybrids and experimentals attracted media attention. Let’s revive Tony Needell’s Index of Performance, encourage the privateer back with their home built specials… make an award to the designers for without their input nothing can move forward!
And as for starts… have a pre trial over a measured mile then start them slowest first fastest last and let the elements sort them out, maybe then the powers that be would then allow the RYS startline?
Let’s bring back spectacle to the sport and for god sake simplify the numbering system . . . please! ! !
The first 50 years has served its purpose, craft are now seaworthy, today we have to work to a new set of rules.. with economy as its root…the motoring world has shown it can be done it is now up to the marine world to take note and adapt or die.
Mike James
Many good points Mike - and just shows how little the sport moves forward.

All other motorsports continuously develop rules, restrict power when need be and keep in touch. Except powerboating!

I've been banging on about economical and modern classes for many years - but there is so little support.

Marathon racing really brings it home. If ever there was a type of racing to promote efficiency! Instead we have an entry class where you can have 600hp of diesel, weight limits too high and not related back to horsepower, A class that is noy really in touch with reality, etc. Must make it very difficult for organsiers to make our psort to look in tune with modern times and enviromental issues that we all face - like it or not.

How great a class would be - 450hp max single engine / 30' max, light weights. No allowance for pretol, inboard / outbaord or diesel - just simple rules and let people innovate through design and build!
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Old 14-08-2013, 05:32 PM   #198
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Spectator boat

As this could be the last CTC race I am looking for a boat to take out a couple of photographers plus a few family and friends who want to watch their sons ,husbands who are competing in the race .
The only place to be , providing weather is ok is the first turn mark at two buoys any takers .
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Old 14-08-2013, 05:42 PM   #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Daisy View Post
Hi Mike
Well she's a step up from Miss Daisy as you might imagine. Both boats benefit massively from a heavy dose of tab, giving you either more comfort or more speed for the same level of discomfort! They were always the Achilles heel of MD as the 'leisure' Bennetts were not up to the job(your friendly mockery still rings in my ears!).
We're still experimenting with HTS, with a possible tab upgrade for the winter. In the mean time a bow ballast tank should be in for the CTC which will reduce the reliance on the tabs for now.
Mike Bellamy's drive system has been very impressive. Our main concern has been whether the rooster tail has been big enough! If that's the main issue then it must be good!
I have to say though I've been mighty impressed overall. The liferaft drill was uppermost in my thoughts on that first leg of the prologue off North Foreland when the seas were mountainous. Having nearly sunk my Huntsman 28 in heavy seas with a split hull in big waves I was unsure of a 44 year old boat with a 30 year museum history. She really is absolutely solid though, the proverbial brick outhouse. Several times we fell sideways off a big one and the only damage was to the crew. One piece of toerail trim was lost (now repaired) in the whole race.
The engines have been brilliant. Although only 300hp for now Perkins are working on producing higher HP models this winter and we may benefit from those upgrades as they appear in the market place.
Speeds varied from 20 knots in the worst conditions to 35 in 'average channel chop' on the way to Guernsey and 51(GPS) in the slick south of Jersey on day 3. MD would have been 5-7 knots less for the same conditions.
Let's hope we will still be racing next year. All praise to John Moore for all his hard work and of course to you Mike for previous years. I hope something can be pulled out of the hat to keep this fantastic sport alive. As a relative newcomer it strikes me that Marathon is so different(and ultimately safer) to all other 'powerboat racing' that we could justify asking for fewer restrictions/rules etc and therefore cost.
All the best
Jonathan
I am sure I am not the only one Jonathan who will have enjoyed all of that info on how HTS is running. She is indeed a legend. Have a great race and a safe one and thanks for the compliments.

ML.
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Old 14-08-2013, 06:00 PM   #200
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Does anyone know why has Cinzano pulled out?


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