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Old 15-07-2007, 09:29 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verytricky View Post
I know the boat I was going to race in Honda last year broke the saddle and didtched the engine in the sea on the start run of the first race. I was glad at that point I did not run with Honda in 2006.
The way i heard this, Honda were hushing this problem up by repairing broken saddles free gratis to the racers!
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Old 15-07-2007, 10:52 PM   #42
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The 150 boats over here had the same problem, so Honda have fitted 225 clamp brackets to the 150 motors for the racing, so much for 'off the shelf' motors
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Old 16-07-2007, 06:36 AM   #43
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WOW, come on guys lets discuss this without "so much for off the shelf motors" crap..
Love them or hate them Honda and hopefully for a very long time will continue to support powerbaot racing.
Making snide comments and slagging them off will only antagonise and have them say it isn't worth the agrevation.
Why is it people in our sport only seek to destroy or run down those trying to boost the sport.
Thanks to HONDA and P1 are getting the sport on to TV and more publicity since the "Express" pulled out.
Honda is on Channel 4 National Telly.........got to be good..
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Old 16-07-2007, 10:46 AM   #44
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Tim,

I think the issue several of us have is not with the breaking of the boats - I have wrecked the V24 more times than most - It is the actions of the racers on the water.

They bully each other out of the racing line, regularly thump each other, and totally ignore competitors when thrown into the water!

That is just wrong!

You think Honda will run away because of some badmouthing on Boatmad? I think Honda will close up and go when those idiots kill someone out there.

Accidents happen! This is fact. Powerboating is a dangerous sport.

But what you see on the video is not accidents, it is stupidity, agression and a complete lack of care. That is what I found really disturbing.
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Old 16-07-2007, 12:20 PM   #45
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Guys,

As a powerboat fan i like the boatmad site and regulary check it out to see whats going on, i also follow the honda series and think what they are doing is brilliant. however every time i look on this site there is always someone slagging the series off, i find this very hard as i know for a fact that alot of people work very hard to keep the series running as it does.

do i detect that people are in fact jelous of what the series has to offer (much more than others) but to scared of what others will think if they jump ship? what have the guys at honda done to upset you lot they are in fact trying to achive the same thing but for some reason there efforts are going unoticed. so what if there boats are not as fast as the 2 litre boats or who cares if they are not as stable as a v24. The guys that race with honda have fun both on and off the course, and i think this is what you guys have forgoten how to do.

i think that honda have done well for themselves and will carry on doing well.

i have had my say, now you can carry on slagging .
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Old 16-07-2007, 12:47 PM   #46
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There will always be a bit of ribbing about who's boat is better - that's to be expected between racers & classes. Honda have done wonders for the sport abnd you have to applaud them for continuing to support the sport as they do.

As far as the saddles go, it's not that big a deal since I believe honda warranty the motors. V24's break their stringers and leak water into the exhausts. All boats have their foibles.

There are however 2 issues raised by Marc that should have some attention drawn to them.

1 is about the number of impacts between boats that appears to have a blind eye turned to it. Or does it? Maybe we need enlightenment.

2 is the tendency of the 225 boats to roll. Looking at the vids you can see quite clearly the boats have little or no roll recovery. They reach a comparitely small roll angle and are beyond the point of no return. It's no fault of a single component, but a number of design features cascading together.

I agree with Marc that both of these are a big deal since the net result of either means it's only a matter of time before someone gets injured. And nobody wants that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy20 View Post
Guys,

As a powerboat fan i like the boatmad site and regulary check it out to see whats going on, i also follow the honda series and think what they are doing is brilliant. however every time i look on this site there is always someone slagging the series off, i find this very hard as i know for a fact that alot of people work very hard to keep the series running as it does.

do i detect that people are in fact jelous of what the series has to offer (much more than others) but to scared of what others will think if they jump ship? what have the guys at honda done to upset you lot they are in fact trying to achive the same thing but for some reason there efforts are going unoticed. so what if there boats are not as fast as the 2 litre boats or who cares if they are not as stable as a v24. The guys that race with honda have fun both on and off the course, and i think this is what you guys have forgoten how to do.

i think that honda have done well for themselves and will carry on doing well.

i have had my say, now you can carry on slagging .
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Old 16-07-2007, 12:49 PM   #47
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Tricky I totaly agree it IS agresive racing as is OCR but unfortunately the hooray henry's will ruin it with bad driving, it does make great TV, but to much negative reporting linked with the inevitable nasty accident that is lurking around the corner.
What I was trying to say was that just don't give HONDA to think about dropping out before they have too.
Having looked at the footage from Germany, and I was not there and do not know the whole story, it was indeed a bizzare incident. I know I haven't raced for a few years but nevr in 30 years seen anything like it and it, like Monte Carlo fatality in '90 it does bring the spot light onto the sport after the event rather than before when it is clear the OOD ( not the A H on here) is not doing his job, If they don't stop to help someone in the water then they should be disqualified and banned from 3 races as with dangerous driving, which some is............................................
Like most officials they think they know it all !! and in fact know sweet fanny adams
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Old 16-07-2007, 02:02 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
I seem to recall an RYA rule from the Dredge era (I might even still have the bulletin somewhere) that if two boats collided with or contacted each other, both would be disqualified.
Ben hit the nail on the head with this quote,

Surely its about how its managed, that will keep this series running,and not about stating some facts on Boatmad!!
So called (Hooray Henrays) should be weeded out through disqualification, although it is racing and accidents will happen.
If anyone can remember the days when Ford brought out the RS 200spectators killed on its first outing, how quick did Ford pull out!!
Fact. large companies do not keep involved when major injuries or fatalities occur.
Apart from the above i never miss it when its on TV looks great fun.
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Old 16-07-2007, 02:09 PM   #49
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tim, have you ever been to a honda event or do you just watch small clips that people post on boatmad? because if you were there am sure you would see a diffrent side. i agree that the 225's can somtimes go over but i have seen bat boats go over i have even seen two revengers go over, when you push hard in a boat you are going to be on the edge a bit. i feel that there is no point fight the honda fight anymore as what ever honda does it will always be wrong in the eyes of the "boatmad gang" still they made it this far without you.
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Old 16-07-2007, 02:51 PM   #50
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Yep, been to watch em.
Watched em fall over.
(Would you like me to break out my copy of "Ship Stability for Masters and Mates")
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Old 16-07-2007, 04:01 PM   #51
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Andy, Yes i have after 30 years I stopped racing professionally. Then most races every year I brought my yacht up from Helford River in Cornwall to do safety at most events!!! Called putting back in.
So yep seen a few races, and in 30 years racing never seen ought like the driving in Honda...
If we drove like that in Class 1 we would have been banned straight away................FOR LIFE.
Oh and stupidly got involved with the old gaurd funny handshake brigade at UKOBA.
Does that qualify me to have an opinion?????????????????????????????????
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Old 16-07-2007, 05:04 PM   #52
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You appear to think the opinions are anti Honda, but that's not the case. It's the drivers and the boats. And, I suppose a small part honda because they haven't had the sense to put a stop to all the 'contact' that has become the norm. I wouldn't wanna see that in a class with boats that handle well, let alone Honda 225!!

BTW, the majority of the people who think the contact, and encouraged poor driving is bad for the sport, are racers, or ex racers, not spectators. So they know a bit about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy20 View Post
tim, have you ever been to a honda event or do you just watch small clips that people post on boatmad? because if you were there am sure you would see a diffrent side. i agree that the 225's can somtimes go over but i have seen bat boats go over i have even seen two revengers go over, when you push hard in a boat you are going to be on the edge a bit. i feel that there is no point fight the honda fight anymore as what ever honda does it will always be wrong in the eyes of the "boatmad gang" still they made it this far without you.
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Old 16-07-2007, 06:04 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Fuller View Post
You appear to think the opinions are anti Honda, but that's not the case. It's the drivers and the boats. And, I suppose a small part honda because they haven't had the sense to put a stop to all the 'contact' that has become the norm. I wouldn't wanna see that in a class with boats that handle well, let alone Honda 225!!

BTW, the majority of the people who think the contact, and encouraged poor driving is bad for the sport, are racers, or ex racers, not spectators. So they know a bit about it.
I think most would agree with Jons Fullers comments,
Having a go at (the boatmad gang) a group of people who share an interest in boats but come from all walks of life and countries to discuss ALL aspects of boating are not a gang!
I take it Andy20 you work for a Honda Garage?
I have found this site very useful seeing how other people have overcome technical problems, getting contacts and some very witty guys, along with projects being under taken.
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Old 16-07-2007, 06:17 PM   #54
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Well i race Honda 225 i also have a 150 which my son races i have raced Honda for 3 years before that ribs and 2lit,we have had 2 incidents in 3 years hardly the picture you guys are trying to paint,all the spills are filmed by on board camaras and helicopters thats what makes good tv ,now we had spins etc in ribs but these were never filmed ,get my drift, we are in lowestoft in 2 weeks come and see us
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Old 16-07-2007, 07:17 PM   #55
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cider daze im sure ur very experienced to comment on the questionable stability of the 225s as a direct comparison to ur old boat for example. Someone close to honda once told me the ribs (r8) were a great deal more stable in corners than race boats as the lines are so rounded on the racers from hull to top side, yet the rib tubes act like a wide set reverse chine and stop em going oops all the time!! But most stepped hull boats are gonna be less stable in corners none the less!

The 150s are also fitted with 225 saddles i believe in uk.

Interesting ur lad races, thats very good and will only help to keep the sport alive. I wonder if the lack of fear factor in younger people plays apart?? The driers dont seem to flinch in the videos when they hit each other!! Amases me!!

Funily one of the 150 boats seen in that video once cut me up one sunny day in the solent, getting all onboard soaked with spray and scaring the lesser experienced crew! I took chase with every intention to ruin the guys face had i not been foiled by my family! Ive since found out hes a school lad!! So im glad the kill cord was pulled!
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Old 16-07-2007, 07:26 PM   #56
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[QUOTE=cider daze;112809]Well i race Honda 225 i also have a 150 which my son races i have raced Honda for 3 years before that ribs and 2lit,we have had 2 incidents in 3 years hardly the picture you guys are trying to paint,all the spills are filmed by on board camaras and helicopters thats what makes good tv ,now we had spins etc in ribs but these were never filmed ,get my drift, we are in lowestoft in 2 weeks come and see us[/QUOTE

I may take this up, sounds like a great weekend, i can bring a boat down and watch from the water, providing you don't run in to me !!
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Old 16-07-2007, 07:37 PM   #57
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I'd bring the Midas too when it's done, be late in the year. love to go out & run with you 225 guys
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Old 16-07-2007, 08:04 PM   #58
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Your right stepped hulls are very unstable in corners my rib was stepped and that went over in a corner in flat conditions in fact 4 boats went over that day now if they all had camaras and helicopters filming would you slate all those drivers this i think is my point you are seeing the bad bits because it makes good tv.
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Old 16-07-2007, 08:20 PM   #59
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Having been involved with incident fall out recntly with the likes of the MAIB, insurance loss adjustor etc and seen what it puts everyone through I wish that the Honda series the best of luck and that things don't go pear shaped.

Discapline and application of the rules gets the racers attention and would go a long way in refining the race series to keep the excitement yet reduce the potential for incident, basic training would also assist , they do it if you buy a 'new' jet ski so why not a race boat for the very first time, not exactly the same as recreational boating
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Old 16-07-2007, 08:35 PM   #60
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Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by cider daze View Post
Your right stepped hulls are very unstable in corners my rib was stepped and that went over in a corner in flat conditions in fact 4 boats went over that day now if they all had camaras and helicopters filming would you slate all those drivers this i think is my point you are seeing the bad bits because it makes good tv.
David
Nobody wants to slate your racing.
If we wanted to slate the Honda racing, i have a very embarrasing fact that i Will PM you because it is not for all Boatmad readers to hear about, and i heard this even though i live 550 miles away and know it is fact.
If you then want me to post this on your head be it!!!
If i were to slate Honda racing then this would have been posted by now.
Please stop getting your knickers in a twist, nobody wants to in your words (paint a picture) against your racing, anyway we talk boats,and are no good at painting can i suggest colour by numbers! try googling it.
After talking to various racing people, and correct me if i am wrong, at meetings ie Cowes it would seem the honda class are very cliquey when approched by others maybe this does'nt help with how you are seen by others.
Is it not the bottom line nobody here wants to see anybody being hurt, thus possibly impacting on OUR sport.
I have just spent a week at Windermere in the Lakes, and because of all the do gooders, safety etc, i spent a week going around at 10mph (safety gone mad)
Regards Garry
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