Air in the steering Hydraulics

The Force · 07-05-2007, 11:33 PM

Help!!!

Ive got a lot of movement in the ram on my steering - if I lean up agains the engine I can move it over 12 mm or so.

So - I assumed it was air - I have pupmed over 5 litres of dextronII through - held the ram in every which position possible and every combination of ram in / ram out you can think of, and followed all the advice on the threads here I could find.

It is a Seastar helm and a single hydrive Ram - I am now thinking the problem could be more than just air. There is a small amount of play in the helm which I assume is air being compressed in the system, but I cant get any out.

Any ideas?

At speed the engine is going side to side and bleeding off speed....

Burty · 08-05-2007, 08:34 AM

You will never get all the play out of that steering system, i haven't seen them with that type of ram but sea star now do a Alison styl rear cylinder with less play in it for that reason. Where is the 12mm measured? cus if at the prop thats very good

roofer · 08-05-2007, 10:31 AM

Burty just curious, how do you control boat at high speed with play in steering ?

The Force · 08-05-2007, 10:38 AM

Hiya,
The 12 mm is on the Ram - which equate to about 40mms each way on the prop.
I was out with my friend on sunday, he has a yamaha 115 on a rib with the centre Ram set up (seastar).
I tried pushing his engine and it was rock solid - like pushing a brick wall - the only difference with mine being I have the side mounted ram. (and a heavier engine) - Interestingly the ram returns to it orginal position after you push it - so Im assuming its air rather than seals - but totally baffled. Even tempted to buy a new helm or ram - but I dont know which one? to buy even.

Burty · 08-05-2007, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Force

Hiya,
The 12 mm is on the Ram - which equate to about 40mms each way on the prop.
I was out with my friend on sunday, he has a yamaha 115 on a rib with the centre Ram set up (seastar).
I tried pushing his engine and it was rock solid - like pushing a brick wall - the only difference with mine being I have the side mounted ram. (and a heavier engine) - Interestingly the ram returns to it orginal position after you push it - so Im assuming its air rather than seals - but totally baffled. Even tempted to buy a new helm or ram - but I dont know which one? to buy even.

Thats loads, i was wondering if you had 12mm at prop.
Does a sea star ram work on an unbalanced system???

Burty · 08-05-2007, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roofer

Burty just curious, how do you control boat at high speed with play in steering ?

You will never get all the play out of hydraulic steering but can get it down to a couple of mm i guess thats why alot of you guys run wire steering

BluFin · 08-05-2007, 12:36 PM

See if your mate is up to swapping the ram over. If you keep the slop then it\\\'s the helm with a possible LRU if available. If he gets it, then the ram, least you wont make a couple of hundred squigglies mistake, you can do it dry without even getting the boats wet, but a good bleed of each first.
(Sorry LRU- Line replaceable unit- spare parts)

The Force · 08-05-2007, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burty

Thats loads, i was wondering if you had 12mm at prop.
Does a sea star ram work on an unbalanced system???

The helm is seastar, the ram is Hydrive - apparently this combination recommended by Marc Pascoe to the previous owner of the boat.

Only a presumption, but i presume the seastar helm is unbalanced as the ram takes more turns in one direction than the other according to the seastar manual....

Unfortunatly I cannot swap with my mates ram, he is away and Im going racing this weekend - leaving Thursday. Its going to be a pit of a follow everybody around from behind if I dont get this sorted.

JamesM · 08-05-2007, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Force

There is a small amount of play in the helm which I assume is air being compressed in the system, but I cant get any out.

Thats normal, you get a small amount of wheel movement before the valves open. You may even be able to hear the clicking as they open when you initialy turn the wheel.

Also for the record 12mm of play at the prop is alot.

JamesM · 08-05-2007, 12:59 PM

Its the ram setup that determines if its a balanced or un-blanaced system, not the helm. The helm will either be compatible with an unbalanced system or it won't. As far as I'm aware the 1000PSI Seastar helms are compatible with both but the 1500PSI Seastar Pro helms are only compatible with balanced setups.

CB1 · 08-05-2007, 10:18 PM

Thats bollox Burty. There should be no play what so ever in a decent hydraulic set up. Most play is caused by worn bushes rather then the ram.We have an italian set up and the trailer moves before the steering.

Burty · 09-05-2007, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CB1

Thats bollox Burty. There should be no play what so ever in a decent hydraulic set up. Most play is caused by worn bushes rather then the ram.We have an italian set up and the trailer moves before the steering.

I got no play in mine either. However you can turn the steering slightly before the engine starts to move but i believe this is due to the valves operating. I know you cant get all the play out of the sea star rams because of the design, thats why they went over to the alison style on the pro versions.

The Force · 09-05-2007, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burty

I got no play in mine either. However you can turn the steering slightly before the engine starts to move but i believe this is due to the valves operating. I know you cant get all the play out of the sea star rams because of the design, thats why they went over to the alison style on the pro versions.

Seems like I have a problem - either bleeding incompetance (scuse the pun!) or something is not quite right - oh well - hand it over to the pro's at Torquay tomorrow and wait for mr big bill

Jon Fuller · 09-05-2007, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CB1

Thats bollox .We have an italian set up

They're best in reverse gear aren't they?

RossM · 10-05-2007, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burty

I got no play in mine either. However you can turn the steering slightly before the engine starts to move but i believe this is due to the valves operating. I know you cant get all the play out of the sea star rams because of the design, thats why they went over to the alison style on the pro versions.

our (new) capliano helm has that play your talking about, not sure what it is, but it cant be air in the system because there is no play at all if you try to swing on the engine but you can turn the wheel abit, and theres no resistance, like there is when its pumping the oil.
is there any way to get rid of this?

JamesM · 10-05-2007, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Me

Thats normal, you get a small amount of wheel movement before the valves open. You may even be able to hear the clicking as they open when you initialy turn the wheel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burty

However you can turn the steering slightly before the engine starts to move but i believe this is due to the valves operating.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuppiesBalls

our (new) capliano helm has that play your talking about, not sure what it is, but it cant be air in the system because there is no play at all if you try to swing on the engine but you can turn the wheel abit, and theres no resistance, like there is when its pumping the oil.
is there any way to get rid of this?

No its normal, you get a small amount of wheel movement before the valves open. You may even be able to hear the clicking as they open when you initialy turn the wheel.

P.S. ECHO..................