Ballast drain arrangement

Ratman · 27-05-2013, 03:03 PM

Looking for advice. I have a Phantom 18 with a ballast tank and the usual pickup on the transom. The tank drain is a ball valve mounted to a bath or sink drain through the (lower) transom, the nut securing the drain to the transom is corroded. So, I need to take it all off, clean it up and refit with a new nut and re-seal. The ball valve works OK but there is nothing to actuate it as there is no hand control for filling and emptying of the tank - it looks like a cable control was once used. I have contacted Salmons about a control but am yet to hear.
I am looking for help on how best to proceed - do I retain the transom drain? Is a sink outlet really how it should be or is it a bodge? It does look like a bodge to me. Any recommendations for an alternative or at least one that doesn't look like a bath? I have searched other threads, a (1.5") Lever Gate Valve from Aquafax has been mentioned. Should I scrap the ball valve and use on of these. OR should I start again block the transom hole up and fit a pumped arrangement?
I would appreciate any help, I'm not looking to do a cheap job, I do want it right. Thanks in advance

NIC SURRY · 27-05-2013, 06:30 PM

I think I have the original set up on my boat,I have a Brass Lever valve that is mounted through the hull with only a brass flange showing on the outside.On the inside is a valve operated by a cable to a lever at the front.and a lower able scoop mounted on the transom as the pick up.I've had issues with tank mounted in the front trying break out of the floor mounting so make sure its mounted securely and the hoses can't slip off the fittings. I hope this helps Nic

Ratman · 27-05-2013, 08:22 PM

Hi Nic, thanks for your reply and yes it is helpful. If you could possibly post some pictures of the valve, pickup, cables and operating levers? I'd be very grateful. Alternatively p.m. me - I can give you an e-mail if its not possible to attach pictures to a personal message.
The Ballast tank is secure, it is made of GRP and looks to be part of an original factory installation. The boat is approx 90/91 manufacture.

Since my original post I have removed the remains of the back-nut but the outlet ain't going nowhere, its solid.

Steve Salmon · 28-05-2013, 03:16 PM

Hello Ratman
Ref: Your ballast system. The Control units that I make have a 3 position locking devise for Pick-up, Hold and Dump. As long as the Water Pick-up that you have fitted to your boat has the same full cable travel (Morse 33C) it should be fine to fit one of my controls.
Our water pick-ups also allows you to dump without the need for additional valves etc.
There is some information on our rather out of date web site www.candbcomposites.com or if you can email me a couple of photos I'll see what I can do to help.
Kind Regards,
Steve Salmon

Ratman · 29-05-2013, 07:21 PM

Steve have sent you a p.m. in response.

Burty · 30-05-2013, 10:52 AM

Ratman, from what you describe that is the standard arrangement from the factory. You have 2 choices, either run 2 separate levers ( 1 to fill and 1 to empty) or get one of Steve's lovely combined ones. His combined pickups and dumps are good too however it would be difficult to retro fit as your drain spigot in the tank will be bigger than the drain outlet in his pickup, you will also have to fit another breather in the side of the boat. Plus glass up the existing drain hole and drill another further up the transom.

DoubleSix · 30-05-2013, 05:18 PM

I have one of the single lever systems - it could be a Salmon one as the boat is an ex racer with some Salmon bits on. The ballast system uses just one penetration in the transom. the pick-up mechanism has two holes in the inner stainless steel sliding tube on the leading face. One of them aligns with the hull penetration (for the tank filling/emptying line) when the pick up is lowered below the transom such that it fills the tank. the other hole aligns when the pick up is up so the tank drains by gravity. "hold" is provided by putting the sliding tube in a pre-marked position where no holes are aligned with the tank filling/emptying line. So only one lever is required to achieve all three positions "fill", "hold", and "empty".

It is a very simple system. It only flaw is that the hold position is not a perfect seal so the tank will slowly drain in time. Just a top up every few minutes if needed, you know when its full as you get a face full of spray from the overflow located on the hll just forward of the driver!

Ratman · 30-05-2013, 11:43 PM

Thanks for your feedback so far gents; It’s all helping me crystallise my thoughts.

I've seen a photo of a Phantom with a sink waste outlet on the low down on the transom same as mine so it is possible this is the standard setup.

The pickup on mine is a stainless steel, square section tube that is moved up/down by cable approx. 55mm. I don't know the make but it’s a fairly standard fit.

The dump valve is 1.25 inch BSP. I've not measured the tank outlet diameter but the pipe is consistent with the valve, that is to say large, over an inch. The dump valve lever has an operating travel of approx. 90mm. The lever is a bit rough and home-made so, I'll probably make a new shorter lever for the valve so the throw coincides with the pickup travel, which should allow a single lever operation. That's my thinking so far. I'm a bit vague on some of the operating lever details and whether or not I can adapt the existing items to suit but that looks the best option at the moment. I'm not ruling out other solutions.
Regards, Ratman.

Steve Salmon · 31-05-2013, 10:24 AM

Hi Chaps
I agree about the flaw in the fabricated pick-up, although it is due to it being a square tube running inside of another square tube with no O Ring seal. I've been supplying those since the late 80's and have always emphasized the fact that it will leak.
The other choice we do is a cast stainless steel bodied pick-up which is cnc machined with a Nylon Inner. It has a Quad ring which seals when in the hold position and an O Ring which holds the grease in the self lubricating slider.
The big daddy of them all is the ones we supply to the RNLI for their Atlantic 75 and 85 RIBS.
We did the cast pick-up mainly for people who wanted to be able to store water in the ballast tank without it leaking over the floor. The fabricated pick-up works fine for racing and it normally comes down to bugets, with the fabricated costing £95 against the cast £250.
I'm always up for feedback from racers and quite happy to modify designs to suit your requirements. In the case of the water pick-up the feed back from Jon F was the the cast pick-up is too small, mainly down to us trying to be too fancy pants with it. Also the guy that polishes it moans that there is too much shape in it and it's difficult to polish.
So, the next gen cast pick-up will be bigger and simpler, but will seal.
As far as getting a face full of water when it's full, maybe move the vents.
Cheers.