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17-12-2006, 01:36 PM
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#41
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Registered User
Country: Belgium
Boat make: Bernico f1 23'
Engines: 2* 4L V8 300 BIG JOHNSON
Cruising area: Viersel
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toffy
Owner told me Nico B. repaired those tabs 2 months ago. I wonder why they needed repair
Don't have experience with these (probably) Kiekhaefer tabs. Do you think they are any good with this boat setup ? (I see they are quite long, single hydro-cilinder, mounted horizontally)
I'm gonna go on-site next saturday to see this boat. Gonna ask for testrun, then or later. What can I expect from these tabs ?
(Did some trimtabs-searching : http://boatmad.com/forum/showpost.ph...09&postcount=4)
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The ram is kiekhaefer, but the blade itself is not kiekhaefer.
Should be ok though. I think they are custom machined or something. Never seen them before.
Anyway, most skiracers have their tabs mounted this way. Why? I don't know!
I think they will be ok.
__________________
__________________
dont know, but ive been told, eskimo dicks are mighty cold
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17-12-2006, 06:23 PM
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#42
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: Weston Super Mare
Occupation: Electrical Engineer
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Weston Super Mare
Posts: 6,351
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All the Bernico's seem to run tabs
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22-12-2006, 11:20 AM
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#43
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Registered User
Country: Belgium
Location: near Ghent
Occupation: engineer
Interests: boating, wakeboarding, snowboarding, fitness
Boat name: Outlaw
Boat make: Phantom 21ft
Engines: Yamaha 200hp
Cruising area: Zele / Kanaal Gent-Terneuzen
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: near Ghent
Posts: 473
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According to Nico Bertels himself the rebuilt engine on this boat should be a '97 225hp Evinrude Vindicator...
Don't think that's the one in the pictures above, right ??
Gonna go inspect boat + engine tomorrow
T.
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22-12-2006, 05:49 PM
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#44
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Registered User
Country: Belgium
Boat make: Bernico f1 23'
Engines: 2* 4L V8 300 BIG JOHNSON
Cruising area: Viersel
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 42
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Powerhead change maybe? That cowl is not of a vindicator (as i recall it)
__________________
dont know, but ive been told, eskimo dicks are mighty cold
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22-12-2006, 06:24 PM
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#45
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Senior Member
Country: netherlands
Location: Mijdrecht/holland
Occupation: truck repair
Interests: fast boats/porches
Boat name: bernico cat
Boat make: bernico 26 cat 2x 2,5,s
Engines: merc,s 2,5 EFI,s
Cruising area: ijselmeer
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mijdrecht/holland
Posts: 382
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vindicator
By saying vindicator ,nico probably means to say that it is a fingerport block.
Older style blocks don,t have that ,I mean their all loop charged (from 1987),but the fingerports have 2 extra holes in the pistons and 2 in the cilinder,fingerport blocks started as johnson /evinrude V6 225 HP from 1993 and up.
Fingerports have also different cooling system ,as they have an open deck instead of a closed drilled deck.
I,ve never saw a 200 fingerport,but it could be exist.
Fingerport have more torque at bottem end ,and make more horsepower.
As for the F1 3,6 litre V8 ,they did make 550 HP ,but only with the help of a shot nitro,those 3,6 L where doing about 425 or so.
Sterling
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22-12-2006, 06:38 PM
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#46
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Registered User
Country: Belgium
Boat make: Bernico f1 23'
Engines: 2* 4L V8 300 BIG JOHNSON
Cruising area: Viersel
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 42
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'97 225hp Evinrude Vindicator
I think that takes every possible explanation away.
If it's a fingerported block, Nico would say it's a fingerported block (or brought up to Vindicator specs if idd Vindicators are fingerported).
The engine you are reffering to is the omc 2nd effort. The engine between a production v8 and the F1. But you are right that when that F1 did it's run it needed a shot of nitro (100 hp boost) to get to 550hp.
F1 v8 were 3.0L 3.3L 3.5. Never heard of a F1 3.6.
190L/hour @ 8500-9000 rpm. Got to love those v8s :-)
__________________
dont know, but ive been told, eskimo dicks are mighty cold
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22-12-2006, 06:52 PM
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#47
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numbskull
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irapesheep
'97 190L/hour @ 8500-9000 rpm. Got to love those v8s :-)
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__________________
.
"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
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23-12-2006, 09:36 PM
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#48
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Registered User
Country: Belgium
Location: near Ghent
Occupation: engineer
Interests: boating, wakeboarding, snowboarding, fitness
Boat name: Outlaw
Boat make: Phantom 21ft
Engines: Yamaha 200hp
Cruising area: Zele / Kanaal Gent-Terneuzen
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: near Ghent
Posts: 473
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How how how ! as Santa tends to say...
I have some more engine info below...
I went to see this boat. It turned out the best of the boats i've recently seen...
Gonna go for a second visit shortly to measure compression and do a testrun.
- Boat's fine. My main concern is the engine. So far I didn't hear the engine running... No tagplate, some numbers on the engine block. Seller doesn't know exact specs nor year of manufacturing. Engine tuned by Nico Bertels in 2002. It "looks fine" to me...
Things I know for sure now :
It's a tuned Evinrude/Johnson V6. (Engineblock looks very much the same as my '92 Evinrude V4)
I see an open exhaust, no silencer on carb airintakes (are these special carbs ?), flywheel looks standard (as in my Evinrude nineties V4-V6-V8 manual...)
Found a stamped number on the engine block (right side) : 337514
Found a painted number on the cilinder head : 333809
To my knowledge this looks like "a" nineties Evinrude V6 225hp engineblock...
Can you guys help me with this ? I hope the numbers and pics can be of any use.
- My second concern is the gearcase and prop. I see no water intakeholes just above propshaftcenterline like on my V4. Where's the waterintake ? Couldn't find it, I must 've missed it I guess... I didn't check for a low water pickup at the front. More importantly : Gearcase housing is damaged on the side (surface damage, see pic). Also the tail fin is deformed : owner shortened it. He says he touched the ground one time while pushing the trailer. He damaged it and therefore shortened it....
Do I need a new gearcase and tailfin...?
The prop isn't the one in the ad. This one is painted in black. 3 blade, through the hub exhaust. Owner didn't know specs, says he has indeed a second prop. This one also looks a bit like my raker prop, bit bigger in diameter and no vent holes. Seller clames boat can do an easy 125km/h with it...? Can't wait to do that testrun and GPS measurement
Looking forward to your comments. 'll post some pictures right away...
Greets to ya' all and cheers for the holidays !
T.
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23-12-2006, 09:45 PM
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#49
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Registered User
Country: Belgium
Location: near Ghent
Occupation: engineer
Interests: boating, wakeboarding, snowboarding, fitness
Boat name: Outlaw
Boat make: Phantom 21ft
Engines: Yamaha 200hp
Cruising area: Zele / Kanaal Gent-Terneuzen
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: near Ghent
Posts: 473
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Engine pics
Engine pics
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23-12-2006, 09:47 PM
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#50
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Registered User
Country: Belgium
Location: near Ghent
Occupation: engineer
Interests: boating, wakeboarding, snowboarding, fitness
Boat name: Outlaw
Boat make: Phantom 21ft
Engines: Yamaha 200hp
Cruising area: Zele / Kanaal Gent-Terneuzen
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: near Ghent
Posts: 473
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Engine number pics
engine number pics
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23-12-2006, 09:48 PM
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#51
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Registered User
Country: Belgium
Location: near Ghent
Occupation: engineer
Interests: boating, wakeboarding, snowboarding, fitness
Boat name: Outlaw
Boat make: Phantom 21ft
Engines: Yamaha 200hp
Cruising area: Zele / Kanaal Gent-Terneuzen
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: near Ghent
Posts: 473
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Prop and gearcase pics
prop and gearcase pics
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23-12-2006, 09:52 PM
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#52
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Registered User
Country: Belgium
Boat make: Bernico f1 23'
Engines: 2* 4L V8 300 BIG JOHNSON
Cruising area: Viersel
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 42
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Since that engine (and cowl) looks exactly like my v8, i think it will be around 1985-1990.
Carbs are standard. I've got lots of spares here in case you need some (also from belgium ;-))
Open exhaust? Where? Has the bucket inside the mid been taken away? I don't see an open (offshore-style) exhaust. Maybe i should buy glasses!
Does it have solid mounts?
In my opinion the engine is far too deep in the water, but this could be just the picture.
In case you need a spare prop, you're also welcome. Got three of those here too but they are rvs. 14.5/21 pitch.
From what i know, those numbers are no serial numbers. I have the same problem. Everything has been erased.
Looks ok though.
You're very right to check compression.
Some dutch seller tried to scam me too, always do it!
__________________
dont know, but ive been told, eskimo dicks are mighty cold
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23-12-2006, 10:21 PM
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#53
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Registered User
Country: Belgium
Location: near Ghent
Occupation: engineer
Interests: boating, wakeboarding, snowboarding, fitness
Boat name: Outlaw
Boat make: Phantom 21ft
Engines: Yamaha 200hp
Cruising area: Zele / Kanaal Gent-Terneuzen
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: near Ghent
Posts: 473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irapesheep
Since that engine (and cowl) looks exactly like my v8, i think it will be around 1985-1990.
Carbs are standard. I've got lots of spares here in case you need some (also from belgium ;-))
Open exhaust? Where? Has the bucket inside the mid been taken away? I don't see an open (offshore-style) exhaust. Maybe i should buy glasses!
Does it have solid mounts?
Maybe water inlet holes drilled in the cone, and inlet on the sides welded tight?? It's definately repainted.
In case you need a spare prop, you're also welcome. Got three of those here too but they are rvs. 14.5/21 pitch.
Looks ok though.
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Thanks for your (very) quick reaction
Open exhaust : see extra pic below. Two drilled holes on top of the midsection
It must make this engine sound like thunder on the Belgian rivers... can I just put some plugs in there (since open exhausts are in fact forbidden at the club ?)
The whole boat looks very solid. Including the engine mounts, but I think I didn't test it properly. Jackplate is exactly the same as mine. Jackplate is mounted on wooden setback which is quite large. (see pic) Notice that the engine is mounted at it's lowest... Nico told me so. It should go faster when mounted higher off course... So you're right, it probably is too deep in the water.
The boat has on both sides some cracks at the back, just after the back seat at the corner sides... I have pics. Don't know what to think of that. Nico Bertels said to me this boat should be technically OK. The wooden structures at the bottom were rebuilt in '97. Don't know why exactly... 150L Fuel tank is built in, maybe that's the reason? Or was this already standard on a '92 Bernico 21ft? Front deck isn't standard : it's been made longer. It looks very nice, also very nice 2 front seats.. Setup however can't be called 'professional' -> Use of some materials, electrical wiring could be better...
Think you're absolutely right about the waterinlet : welded tight at the sides, inlet holes drilled in the cone, and repainted. What about that deformed tail fin ? Should I worry about that ?
Anyone can help with the engineblock numbers ?
Thx, T.
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23-12-2006, 10:48 PM
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#54
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Registered User
Location: Scotland
Interests: Hole maker
Boat make: Humber Ocean Offshore
Engines: KAD 300/DPX
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 958
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Those holes look like the idle exhaust outlets on my old OMC 150.
And who laid the cover painted side down on the tarmac? Might tell you something about the care taken by the present owner.
__________________
JW.
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23-12-2006, 10:56 PM
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#55
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Senior Member
Country: netherlands
Location: Mijdrecht/holland
Occupation: truck repair
Interests: fast boats/porches
Boat name: bernico cat
Boat make: bernico 26 cat 2x 2,5,s
Engines: merc,s 2,5 EFI,s
Cruising area: ijselmeer
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mijdrecht/holland
Posts: 382
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omc
Toffy
Forgot to tell last time ,it could be a 2,7 liter too,omc made those for a short time ,from what I,ve been seen back then they where 1987-1988 and where having a bridged exhaust like a merc 2,4 EFI or V4 omc
They where very good for modding,but only few where build.
Those have the same pistons as a 3,6 litre V8.
3,6 :8 =450cc 6x450cc =2,7 L
You have to look at the back ,on the exhaust chest ,there is a round tag that sits flushed into the alu ,there is a number that can give the info you need.
If not ,it can be a short block/long block powerhead only ,those came often without numbers /tag.
The 2,5 EFI guy is on a holiday,he,ll be back next week.
sterling
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23-12-2006, 11:20 PM
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#56
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Registered User
Country: Belgium
Location: near Ghent
Occupation: engineer
Interests: boating, wakeboarding, snowboarding, fitness
Boat name: Outlaw
Boat make: Phantom 21ft
Engines: Yamaha 200hp
Cruising area: Zele / Kanaal Gent-Terneuzen
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: near Ghent
Posts: 473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jw.
Those holes look like the idle exhaust outlets on my old OMC 150.
And who laid the cover painted side down on the tarmac? Might tell you something about the care taken by the present owner.
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Euh.... aren't those holes considered an 'open exhaust' then? I thought they were, but correct me if I'm wrong here
Concerning the cowl on the tarmac : I thought exactly the same as you do.
Didn't want to complain about it though, since I saw it was already scratched. It needs a repaint that's for sure.
For the longer term : I know someone who paintbrushes... Since the boat's name is Tazmanian, thinking of putting another devil on the cowl...
But let's see first how this boat and engine behave on the water...
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23-12-2006, 11:42 PM
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#57
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Registered User
Country: Belgium
Location: near Ghent
Occupation: engineer
Interests: boating, wakeboarding, snowboarding, fitness
Boat name: Outlaw
Boat make: Phantom 21ft
Engines: Yamaha 200hp
Cruising area: Zele / Kanaal Gent-Terneuzen
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: near Ghent
Posts: 473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sterling
Toffy
Forgot to tell last time ,it could be a 2,7 liter too,omc made those for a short time ,from what I,ve been seen back then they where 1987-1988 and where having a bridged exhaust like a merc 2,4 EFI or V4 omc
They where very good for modding,but only few where build.
Those have the same pistons as a 3,6 litre V8.
3,6 :8 =450cc 6x450cc =2,7 L
You have to look at the back ,on the exhaust chest ,there is a round tag that sits flushed into the alu ,there is a number that can give the info you need.
If not ,it can be a short block/long block powerhead only ,those came often without numbers /tag.
The 2,5 EFI guy is on a holiday,he,ll be back next week.
sterling
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Hi Sterling !
Thx for that info. Your explanation sounds logical. an '87 or '88 seems possible. Think I got the wanted picture from that round tag on the exhaust chest. No number overthere though... pitty We just know for sure that "LUCIEN" worked on this engine block
Does this mean it is not that 2,7L '87-'88 you're referring to and it can still be any Evinrude V6 engine block out there ???
I got some info from "Wild Thing" on the position of an engine serial number stamped in the engine block. It's in my other thread referring to this engine being an old '80 - '85 235hp V6 Evinrude. I didn't understand his discription of the location. Remember : looking at the first pictures in this thread several people thought this engine and engine cowl looked like an old 235hp V6. Is this still possible ???
http://www.boatmad.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7610
Quote:
The engine serial number is stamped on a frost plug on the top left port bank of the engine. last years of a 235hp was 1983, the 235 run on 1"3/8 carbs as opposed to standard V6 engines, they are an old engine, drink fuel and hp was way overated.
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24-12-2006, 08:04 AM
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#58
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Senior Member
Country: netherlands
Location: Mijdrecht/holland
Occupation: truck repair
Interests: fast boats/porches
Boat name: bernico cat
Boat make: bernico 26 cat 2x 2,5,s
Engines: merc,s 2,5 EFI,s
Cruising area: ijselmeer
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mijdrecht/holland
Posts: 382
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omc
Toffy
No it cannot be an old 235 omc .
those older 235,s are cross flow engine,s,that means they spool fuel/air different than todays so called loop charged engine,s(omc looper)pistons are not flat ,but having a crown.
cross flow engine,s are having that round alu tag like said befoe on top of the right cilinder bank,actually its not a freeze plug ,but it look like one.
Another thing to see what type engine it is are:
cross flow :aluminium carbs,cilinder heads are 2 piece ones,(3/8 bolts)
no butterfly plate behind carbs,flywheel is flat ,and non ventilated.
engine blocks painted white ,blue,black,green etc
looper: always blackpowerhead,shows V4 or V6,V8 on the exhaust chest.
plastic carbs,cilinderheads 1 piece (lost foam)
alu tag on the exh chest.
I don,t know how to see from the outside if its a 2,7 or a 3L,sometimes on the right side on the block just behind the carbs on the intake half you find a production date,its on a reinforcementweb
good luck sterling
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24-12-2006, 10:57 AM
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#59
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Registered User
Location: Belgium
Interests: Boating
Boat make: Hydrostream HST
Engines: Merc 2.5 200
Cruising area: The Schelde
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Belgium
Posts: 468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toffy
Hi Sterling !
Thx for that info. Your explanation sounds logical. an '87 or '88 seems possible. Think I got the wanted picture from that round tag on the exhaust chest. No number overthere though... pitty We just know for sure that "LUCIEN" worked on this engine block
Does this mean it is not that 2,7L '87-'88 you're referring to and it can still be any Evinrude V6 engine block out there ???
I got some info from "Wild Thing" on the position of an engine serial number stamped in the engine block. It's in my other thread referring to this engine being an old '80 - '85 235hp V6 Evinrude. I didn't understand his discription of the location. Remember : looking at the first pictures in this thread several people thought this engine and engine cowl looked like an old 235hp V6. Is this still possible ???
http://www.boatmad.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7610
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Strange that they took the number out Motor is indeed repainted and that skeg(fin) is made a lot smaller than original if you ask me. I dont think this motor is from '90+ Who layed that cowl on the ground with the top down? If it was the owner it says a lot about him
__________________
www.geocities.com/fletcher_arrowbeau
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31-12-2006, 10:59 AM
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#60
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8
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Check this site for OMC
http://community.webshots.com/user/LIQUIDNIRVANA
World record holder for Outboard Motors is an EVINRUDE V8 back in 1989. 176.556mph.
Thats only part of the story though. Most people do not know that to get this record you have only got 3 kilometers to set it. It seems that the boat has only got 1 kilometer to get from zero to top speed. The electronic timers are located in the second kilo, then you only have one kilometer to slow down. THEN you have to repeat this in the opposite direction within one hour of the first run. It is VERY VERY DANGEROUS. To get from zero to top speed within the 1st kilo a ten second shot of Nitrous was used. Motor was putting out 600hp at this point. So much acceleration the boat was going sideways. Then through timers for 1 kilo (Nitrous was not used through the timers), Motor then about 450hp. Then slow down, refuel & repeat. The boat was 20' Karlsen Hydro. On test runs previous day the boat was going over 190mph. Unfortunately prop was damaged & timed run was only 176.556 mph average. This was one hot motor. The later EFI V8's had only one master. The Evinrude Rotary's of the 70's. But thats another story. PS: If you wanna build a red hot reliable V6 EVINRUDE/JOHNSON EFI (Dyno 380hp) it is now possible.
Happy New Year.
__________________
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