Capilino helm bleeding

scottyboy · 26-03-2006, 10:41 AM

Does anyone know the correct way of bleeding the above properly with a latham ram set up? And is the filler tube supposed to breath when filled up or be completely blanked off?

Burty · 26-03-2006, 10:59 AM

its supposed to breath.
and its a right git to bleed. you need to get the filler bottle above the ram. i did this by taking my speedo out and running a pipe through that.

scottyboy · 26-03-2006, 11:01 AM

Ok you put the bottle of fluid on to the filler but then how does the air escape? Do you just crack off a pipe on the ram and keep chasing up until you get back to the helm?

Burty · 26-03-2006, 11:55 AM

yup crack pipe ram end, then other pipe one at a time like bleeding sea star. remember to extend and retract ram fully

scottyboy · 26-03-2006, 01:54 PM

Right ive done all of the above twice and i think my helm needs an overhaul now! When i yank the steering wheel from side to side the engine moves a little more to the right by itself? Also if i go full lock and hold the steering wheel it creeps! So im thinking its leaking past a valve somehow internally? What a pain in the backside this is, ive only just had my ram overhauled by latham! One thing after another! Next question is can they be overhauled? If so wheres the best place to get this done? Hypro marine????

BluFin · 26-03-2006, 02:17 PM

Creep is normal on Hyd Steering systems.
what is the helm unit model no

JamesM · 26-03-2006, 04:32 PM

Its not like bleeding a seastar system as the sea star system has bleed nipples and the Latham/Marine Machine rams do not.

This is how we did Cye's and Burty's:

Somehow ensure the that your fill bottle is higher than the helm, take a guage out or something.

Get the front of the boat (helm) as low as posible and the back as high as possible.

Take both hoses off the ram and stick them in a bucket of hydaulic oil so the ends are submerged.

Fill the helm and turn the wheel one way till bubble's stop coming out of thats directions respective hose. Then turn it the other way till bubble's stop coming out of the other hose. Keeping the helm topped up and both hoses submerged at all times.

Detach the ram from the wing plate.

Push the ram all the way in and point the wing plate end at the sky. Remove the shortest hose (the one that goes to the fitting on the ram nearest the transom) from the bucket with your thumb over end. Then taking care not to lose fluid from it (turn the wheel in the required direction to get fluid comeing out of that hose if neccasary) attach it to its fitting on the ram and do up tight.

Turn the wheel in the direction required to push the ram out. Do this untill the ram is fully extended, mean while keeping the other hose submerged and the helm topped up. When the ram is fully extended point the wing plate end at the floor. Crack the fitting and keep turning the wheel in the same direction. Fluid will leak from the fitting along with a bit of air. Keep turning the wheel untill the air stops and the fluid runs clear of bubbles. Keep turning the wheel whilst tightening the fitting.

Point the wing plate end of the ram at the sky once more. Remove the remaining hose (the one that goes to the fitting on the ram nearest the wingplate) from the bucket with your thumb over end. Then taking care not to lose fluid from it (turn the wheel in the required direction to get fluid comeing out of that hose if neccasary) attach it to its fitting on the ram and do up tight.

Keeping the wing plate end of the ram pointing skyward, turn the wheel in the direction required to push the ram in. Do this untill the ram is fully retracted mean while keeping the helm topped up. When the ram is fully retracted crack the fitting and keep turning the wheel in the same direction. Fluid will leak from the fitting along with a bit of air. Keep turning the wheel untill the air stops and the fluid runs clear of bubbles. Keep turning the wheel whilst tightening the fitting.

Job done!!!

Its a very messy job so you will need lots of rags and lots of hydraulic oil. You will also need a few helpers. One person at the helm end, one at the ram end and one to keep the helm persons fill bottle topped up with hydraulic oil, stop the bucket from overflowing and pass rag to the person at the ram end.

The fluid going in is bound to have small bubble in it so sometime
later when these bubbles have had time to colate you may benefit from cracking the fittings and pumping a bit of fluid out using the method described above. Don't forget to keep the helm topped up when doing this.

Hope that all makes sense

JamesM · 26-03-2006, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by scottyboy
Right ive done all of the above twice and i think my helm needs an overhaul now! When i yank the steering wheel from side to side the engine moves a little more to the right by itself? Also if i go full lock and hold the steering wheel it creeps! So im thinking its leaking past a valve somehow internally? What a pain in the backside this is, ive only just had my ram overhauled by latham! One thing after another! Next question is can they be overhauled? If so wheres the best place to get this done? Hypro marine????

That sounds more like you still have air in the system

If you think you've got a problem with your valves you can take em out and clean them. Burty knows a bit more about this as he had to do his. His was locking up in one direction once everything was bled and locked off. This was due to a bit of dirt jamming the valve or something.

Valve is circled in the attached picture, the other one is in the same place on the other side.

scottyboy · 26-03-2006, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BluFin
Creep is normal on Hyd Steering systems.
what is the helm unit model no

1275V! Ive never noticed it that much before though! Im just abit paranoid about me steering coz when ya doing 75mph plus most of the time if it goes its gonna hurt!

scottyboy · 26-03-2006, 05:05 PM

JBD,

I'll try and take me valves out in the week and bleed it like you,ve explained! What a pain in the rear end it is to bleed!

JamesM · 26-03-2006, 05:30 PM

It shouldnt creep to the point where your turning the wheel just to drive in a straight line. However the steering wheel will never return to the same place.

Your valves may be okay but I spose it couldn't hurt to clean em. If memory servers me correctly I think a when you undo those nuts a bit comes out which you then blow through with an airline. Burty will know more!!!!

scottyboy · 26-03-2006, 05:39 PM

Well as i said before i was yankin the wheel from left to right and the engine was moving a little more to the right everytime! Then i was having to turn the wheel back to the left to straighten the engine up again! I just thought that that was to much but maybe im wrong! when i put it on full lock the wheel creeps round slowly to! Is that normal?

Burty · 26-03-2006, 06:32 PM

if you take the valves out you will loose all the fluid in the helm so go careful.
I'd try bleeding again first it takes hours and is a right pain

scottyboy · 26-03-2006, 08:29 PM

What fluid did you use burty?

Burty · 26-03-2006, 08:46 PM

Jack oil

scottyboy · 26-03-2006, 09:03 PM

Hhhhmmm? Ive been using dexron2/ATF fluid! Only coz thats what came out though! Jack oil is alot thinner than that! Maybe i should use that?

JamesM · 27-03-2006, 06:57 AM

No, its ATF Dexron II as you said.

Burty used ATF (I know cus I was bleeding the cylinder and was covered in the stuff) but his memory isn't what it used to be as he uses his mobile phone too much!!!

scottyboy · 27-03-2006, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Johnny Boat Dude
No, its ATF Dexron II as you said.

Wickard! Cheers matey!

scottyboy · 27-03-2006, 05:05 PM

Ive found out today why my steering doesnt return to the same position when i move the steering wheel equal amounts either way! Its because its an " Un balanced" System! It uses more fluid to push the ram out than it does to push it back hence it never returns to the same position and always creeps round a little further everytime you move the steering back and forth! Balanced systems like the front mounted seastar use the same amount of fluid when you turn the steering wheel either way!

Oh and your supposed to buy special 90degree fittings for the ram with bleed nipples on so you connect everything up as usual join the two nipples up together with hose crack them off and then turn the wheel till all the air is out, then tighten them up and hey presto a steering system with no air in!

Ive got some on order!

JamesM · 27-03-2006, 06:20 PM

Even with the seastar front mount the wheel doesn't return to the same place everytime!!!

Those fittings with bleed nipples should make it alot easier and less messy but you dont need them. All the Latham and Marine Machine rams I ever seen (which to be fair isnt that many) didn't have them. Make sure you point the ram in the air or at the floor so the air goes to the location of the bleed nipple.