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Old 22-12-2011, 07:14 PM   #1
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cougar beater

hello, just wondering is there a phantom or ring that will out handle a 27 cougar in rough sea?
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Old 22-12-2011, 07:35 PM   #2
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Is the Cougar 27 not a cat?
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Old 22-12-2011, 10:06 PM   #3
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The sports racer (honda 225 boat) is a 27 stepped mono.

I would have said a couger 27 would outperform a 21 ring or phantom in the chop no worries! I'm sure a p25 or 28 or ring 26 would be a different story though.
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Old 22-12-2011, 10:10 PM   #4
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Depends on what engine it has !!
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Old 23-12-2011, 05:32 AM   #5
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hello, just wondering is there a phantom or ring that will out handle a 27 cougar in rough sea?
The following are comments from Paul C when I had a discussion with him regarding the 225 Cougar.

Paul C
“Totally agree a very under rated hull. I will go so far to say that there is nothing out there that will come close to competing with this hull in rough conditions accept something a lot bigger and heavier! Make no mistake this hull comes with a health warning. It is an extremely technical boat to handle and rewards those who get it right and punishes those who get it wrong. Marmite springs to mind..! you will love it or hate it.

I've raced these hulls in brutal seas & strong beam on winds, in those conditions yes trim tabs would have made my life easier. But that said these hulls are unbelievably good in rough weather; fill the bow tank, trim down and they fly true and level although there are many photo's that will contradict that. I found they suffer in strong beam on winds at any speed, they can list heavily. Over long distance cruising that would be uncomfortable so in that situation they are a must have. By fitting an inboard you have already improved things, you also have one of the heavier hulls so unless you are planning to go out when it is rough and windy on a long cruise don't waste your money.

As for the one in Norway, it can't really be compared with our Superstocks. It accelerates quicker, is at least 10mph faster, has a different prop, adjustable engine height, extra fuel tank in the rear, it's roughly 100Kg heavier and of course it has those trim tabs. This particular set up takes driving these hulls to a new level - If you find the sweet spot the stability is unbelievable. I have driven this boat at over 75mph with both hands off the wheel for several hundred meters before my bottle went. Do that for for a few seconds at high speed with the Honda and over you go.! On the other hand it can be far more wild than the Honda if you get it wrong. As the owner found out.! In his words."


freddy21

I have to honest and say that although I own one I have not yet had it in the water as I have spent 2 years converting it to inboard. I did a lot of research and in my humble opinion and this is only my opinion would say the following.

I don’t think there are many 27ft boats that with a 225 will do 69mph. This is due to the fact that it a stepped plane hull which will give 10-15% more efficiency and for a boat of this length they are very light due to the foam cores, balsa cores and aramid fiber (Kevlar) construction.

They are very long and narrow (6ft wide) which gives which gives it low aerodynamic drag. The down side of this is with it being narrow and with the four stoke Honda mounted high up they rolled over when racing (too higher C of G). From what I herd they were a lot better with the lighter 250XS.

Some as in mine had a problem with the chine’s delaminating. I believe as in the case with mine it was driven like a banger race car with lots of contact and went over the top of another. When I bought it although it had been repaired and it had failed again. I believe this was mainly due to the fact that it was repaired mainly with polyester resin. The hulls were made from vinyl ester, nothing sticks very well to it other than epoxy. I have removed most of the repairs and redone them with epoxy. Some repairs I put a screw driver behind and the popped out like it was a non stick frying pan. Over all for a boat that had 8 races a season for 7 year it was in good shape. Provided you keep no contact they are very strong.

I love it and would not change it apart from a Phantom, may be. As Paul C said, it’s a technical boat to drive and I think it’s a technical boat to repair but worth it.

MARMITE !!
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Old 23-12-2011, 07:57 AM   #6
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Depends on what engine it has !!
My Cougar 27 will be running in exmouth on new years day now with a 200xs short shaft 15 inch engine. Will see how it runs against the rest.
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Old 23-12-2011, 08:38 AM   #7
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My Cougar 27 will be running in exmouth on new years day now with a 200xs short shaft 15 inch engine. Will see how it runs against the rest.
That should be a cracking set up. Done any testing yet? Interested to know if the 200xs will push it quicker than the Honda 225. Guess it's gonna need to be and reach at least mid 70s to be competitive at 3c. Are you Planning on racing I at 3c?
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Old 23-12-2011, 09:14 AM   #8
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200xs

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My Cougar 27 will be running in exmouth on new years day now with a 200xs short shaft 15 inch engine. Will see how it runs against the rest.
at last some one has put the right engine on ( 15" and a lot lighter, low c of g should be interesting )
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Old 23-12-2011, 09:31 AM   #9
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I remember when they were very new and they were meant to be achieving mid seventies with a 225 Honda on the back - I lined up against three of them at Cowes for the Round the Island race and as they were alongside me I was expecting them to set off into the distance - as it happened our ancient XR2 on the race RIB out performed them in every way and left them for dead!

I would put one of our race boats up against a Cougar any day with the same power in any conditions. One last thing - our boat isn't prone to ending up upside down!
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Old 23-12-2011, 09:38 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Docta View Post
That should be a cracking set up. Done any testing yet? Interested to know if the 200xs will push it quicker than the Honda 225. Guess it's gonna need to be and reach at least mid 70s to be competitive at 3c. Are you Planning on racing I at 3c?
This should be eligible for Club "C"
3c require canopies for next season. (subject to ratification by RYA)
AS Derek says should make it a good Rig.
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Old 23-12-2011, 02:26 PM   #11
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Quote:
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I remember when they were very new and they were meant to be achieving mid seventies with a 225 Honda on the back - I lined up against three of them at Cowes for the Round the Island race and as they were alongside me I was expecting them to set off into the distance - as it happened our ancient XR2 on the race RIB out performed them in every way and left them for dead!

I would put one of our race boats up against a Cougar any day with the same power in any conditions. One last thing - our boat isn't prone to ending up upside down!
What length was your race boat and what were the conditions of the race like?

I'm pretty sure the 225's only went 65mph and were setup for series racing, all having to use the same pitch prop and run the same engine height and be over a certain weight with the heavy honda on the back so I've always thought they suffer a disadvantage against other boats. I'd be interested to see how well they go compared to other boats under the same conditions.

Reading through what I've written could come across as if I'm trying to take away from your victory over the honda's but that's not what I meant.
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Old 23-12-2011, 02:32 PM   #12
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This should be eligible for Club "C"
3c require canopies for next season. (subject to ratification by RYA)
AS Derek says should make it a good Rig.
A Cougar with a canopy could be an iteresting mod, it is something crossed my mind. Don't see why one could not make a canopy struture that bolted on to the top flange of the cockpit area. Unless the new rules prohibit bolt on and state that it has to be an intergal part of the hull structure. If it was desigend right and bolted every 4 inches around the circumferance sould be as strong as an itegral structure. Could even have some sort of fully welded roll cage for impact protection as you cloud lift the conopy off to bolt the roll cage in.

With a 2 stroke engine, a conopy and a lower C of G, being very narrow migh make it self righting if it roler over.
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Old 24-12-2011, 08:28 AM   #13
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First test exmouth, Tuesday.
Due to high transom for other engine set up, the 15 inch leg set high, gearbox drive running level with bottom of boat, so my be adding a lifter to help getting on plan and adjusting running hight. or just lower transom.
Tuesday test will tell.
Getting ready for Exmouth New year day run.
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Old 24-12-2011, 10:07 AM   #14
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Quote:
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What length was your race boat and what were the conditions of the race like?

I'm pretty sure the 225's only went 65mph and were setup for series racing, all having to use the same pitch prop and run the same engine height and be over a certain weight with the heavy honda on the back so I've always thought they suffer a disadvantage against other boats. I'd be interested to see how well they go compared to other boats under the same conditions.

Reading through what I've written could come across as if I'm trying to take away from your victory over the honda's but that's not what I meant.
Typical Solent nasty chop - our boat was 24' so we had a disadvantage with length and XR2's never gave 200hp - we had jetted it up for reliability so we were probably well under 190hp and left them for dead. In fairness the Honda engine was never anything like race motor, heavy and not responsive enough as well as being too tall but after all of the hype I expected them to chuck sand in our faces but it turned out totally the opposite!

Definitely interested in the results from Exmouth - I don't think I will ever like the hull (I tested one in Plymouth) for their ability to roll over without notice but they were very pitch stable over lumpy bits and a good ride - so long as you know how to drive them and don't go mad in the corners it's not a bad hull with the right engine on I think.
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Old 24-12-2011, 10:32 AM   #15
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If its a testermonial regarding the boats capabilities in rough water flat out p.m. Scott Williams,he won all of his races in it in the rough.Did roll over tho.
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Old 24-12-2011, 02:03 PM   #16
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Just dont buy one with a Honda motor, too top heavy.



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Old 24-12-2011, 05:51 PM   #17
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I do miss the fun we had.
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Old 24-12-2011, 07:26 PM   #18
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Hi Guys think I can help out here. In my humble opinion a circuit race boat should also be judged on their cornering ability and not just about straight line abilty. I'm a big fan of the Cougar 27 for many reasons, however when it comes to going around corners the Cougar 21 with a honda 150 on the back and a top speed of just 55mph will easily out menouver the 27 even in choppy conditions.

So is there Cougar 27 beater? Yes, but it depends what you want to beat it at.
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Old 25-12-2011, 02:05 PM   #19
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Anyone know how the 27 performs with a 300XS on the back ?
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Old 26-12-2011, 03:04 PM   #20
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If its a testermonial regarding the boats capabilities in rough water flat out p.m. Scott Williams,he won all of his races in it in the rough.Did roll over tho.
Against the same boats with the same props etc! However that tells me that the best rough water driver can roll one as well!

They performed much better with the 300xs on the back as it was shorter and obviously more powerful - they over propped the 300xs version but it was much faster than the Honda powered boats.
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