Fuel Tank Location

[NIC SURRY]

Hi my Phantom 20 has no bow tank and I need to keep the bow down,i have looked at the mounts of the fuel tank it would quite easily slide forward in the boat by approx ten inches,would this be a good idea as at current it tends to fly very much bow up with half tank of fuel and am trying to get it to fly flat,currently the tank is positioned under the rear seat between the two uprights and could slide to where the rear passenger feet would normally be.The main mod I've done on the boat is to fit a 5" set back hydraulic lifter which has moved the engine weight further back and probably made the bow even lighter particlarily as I will be running with more fuel ie full tank.I know a bow tank is the answer but havn't got the time before Ilfracombe-my first race-PanicPanicPanic.Thoughts and advice appreciated as I have no experience of this.Nic

[OCRDA]

Paul Nichols was quite competitive with this boat so suggest you set it up as it was, Maybe even take the lifter off. Or put a small sand bag up the front.

Bob

[NIC SURRY]

Originally Posted by OCRDA

Paul Nichols was quite competitive with this boat so suggest you set it up as it was, Maybe even take the lifter off. Or put a small sand bag up the front.

Bob

Hi Bob,Good to hear it was competetive but thats probably with a good driver.I don't know the name Paul Nichols I bought it off Dave Boakes,was Paul the previous owner before Dave.I find the lifter quote usefull as I tend to use the boat for beginer Skiing and Racing(Alright following a load of proper racers) and crap slip-way recovery.As it looks quite an easy job to move the tank forward do you think this would help ?as I can move it back for when I have the rear seat in.From memory most of the OCR boats had the bag tank behind the driver/passemger seat?

[motorvator]

Nic, if you think about a fuel tank weighing say 50 kg empty and 150 / 200 kg full then the the place to put it is exactly on the centre of gravity so that trim does not alter as it empties.

If you don't get a noticeable trim difference at the moment between empty and full then leave it where it is and as Bob says just ballast the nose up with some sand bags to get her flying level.

Make sure you get the toughest bags possible and use at least three layers as I can vouch for the fact that getting it out of the bilges when it splits is a complete ballache

[NIC SURRY]

Originally Posted by motorvator

Nic, if you think about a fuel tank weighing say 50 kg empty and 150 / 200 kg full then the the place to put it is exactly on the centre of gravity so that trim does not alter as it empties.

If you don't get a noticeable trim difference at the moment between empty and full then leave it where it is and as Bob says just ballast the nose up with some sand bags to get her flying level.

Make sure you get the toughest bags possible and use at least three layers as I can vouch for the fact that getting it out of the bilges when it splits is a complete ballache

Hi Thanks I never thought of it that way.I think I'll stick some bags up front.Nic

[Cookee]

Thick inner tubes pretty much stay where you put them when filled with sand

["Old beardy"]

Originally Posted by OCRDA

Paul Nichols was quite competitive with this boat so suggest you set it up as it was, Maybe even take the lifter off. Or put a small sand bag up the front.

Bob

I think you will find that Paul Nicholls had the P18 that was done in the same colour scheme. If memory serves me correctly there were three Boakes brothers, one had this black P20, one had another P20 I think called Mistress and the third had an early P21. The two P20`s raced nationally in OCR and the P21 did a couple of basics.
We ran a P20 in OCR for 7 years without a bow tank, we moved our fuel tank forward when it was rough and found that better than having a bow tank. Mick Archer never had a bow tank in his P20 and the Rendalls only had a very small tank up front. I personally cannot see the point in fitting a lifter, the boat will handle far better without it. Just my humble thoughts.

[NIC SURRY]

Originally Posted by "Old beardy"

I think you will find that Paul Nicholls had the P18 that was done in the same colour scheme. If memory serves me correctly there were three Boakes brothers, one had this black P20, one had another P20 I think called Mistress and the third had an early P21. The two P20`s raced nationally in OCR and the P21 did a couple of basics.
We ran a P20 in OCR for 7 years without a bow tank, we moved our fuel tank forward when it was rough and found that better than having a bow tank. Mick Archer never had a bow tank in his P20 and the Rendalls only had a very small tank up front. I personally cannot see the point in fitting a lifter, the boat will handle far better without it. Just my humble thoughts.

Thanks for info

I raced at Ilfracombe in the rough and the bow was skyward all the time even with 100kg of balast up front,I've now moved the fuel tank 12" forward I think this will counteract the 5" set back of the engine,previously without the ballast and the fuel tank at the back it needed hardly any trim to get right up on the pad ie engine vertical in fact at speed trimming right in was the only way to get the bow down,I've briefly tried it with the tank forward and it now needs more trim to get up on the pad but not excessive so can probably remove the ballast,it felt like the trim had more scope to adjust to varying conditions so should be better for coping with flat or rough conditions-fingers crossed.I'm hoping this works as we allways seem to land back end first on the widest/flatest part of the boat which gives a very hard landing and kills you back,
Cheers Nic
PS Torquay's bound to be flat now

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by NIC SURRY

Thanks for info

I raced at Ilfracombe in the rough and the bow was skyward all the time even with 100kg of balast up front,I've now moved the fuel tank 12" forward I think this will counteract the 5" set back of the engine,previously without the ballast and the fuel tank at the back it needed hardly any trim to get right up on the pad ie engine vertical in fact at speed trimming right in was the only way to get the bow down,I've briefly tried it with the tank forward and it now needs more trim to get up on the pad but not excessive so can probably remove the ballast,it felt like the trim had more scope to adjust to varying conditions so should be better for coping with flat or rough conditions-fingers crossed.I'm hoping this works as we allways seem to land back end first on the widest/flatest part of the boat which gives a very hard landing and kills you back,
Cheers Nic
PS Torquay's bound to be flat now

Don't forget moving the fuel tank forward will have more effect when full of fuel! Many Phantom owners have found that mounting the engine further back than the transom has given poor results, but it's worth trying all the options before binning the bracket!

[NIC SURRY]

Originally Posted by Cookee

Don't forget moving the fuel tank forward will have more effect when full of fuel! Many Phantom owners have found that mounting the engine further back than the transom has given poor results, but it's worth trying all the options before binning the bracket!

Thanks the boat is predomanently used for leisure although I think I have the racing bug,the lifter is very usefull with the crap launch/Slip way facilities we have at Weston also it gives me a chance to learn what effect different heights do to the boat.If I do change to more of a race boat and join a championship I'd probaly ditch it as it weights a ton and using the Phantom 20 would need a smaller capacity eng for OCR or sell this rig and buy a current spec race boat,Cheers Nic

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by NIC SURRY

Thanks the boat is predomanently used for leisure although I think I have the racing bug,the lifter is very usefull with the crap launch/Slip way facilities we have at Weston also it gives me a chance to learn what effect different heights do to the boat.If I do change to more of a race boat and join a championship I'd probaly ditch it as it weights a ton and using the Phantom 20 would need a smaller capacity eng for OCR or sell this rig and buy a current spec race boat,Cheers Nic

I think a 20 would be a bit big and heavy for OCR with a 130 Yamaha? OK for basic races as it is though if you took the bracket off!

[NIC SURRY]

Originally Posted by Cookee

I think a 20 would be a bit big and heavy for OCR with a 130 Yamaha? OK for basic races as it is though if you took the bracket off!

Another reason for the lifter is the transom top has been cut down and I can't get the motor high enough without the lifter or a bracket,without lifter the point of gearbox is 2" below and I want to get it at least level with bottom

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by NIC SURRY

Another reason for the lifter is the transom top has been cut down and I can't get the motor high enough without the lifter or a bracket,without lifter the point of gearbox is 2" below and I want to get it at least level with bottom

Was it cut down for a 15" leg?

[NIC SURRY]

Originally Posted by Cookee

Was it cut down for a 15" leg?

It came with a 20' XR2 and I'm not sure if it ever had a 15",do I presume that the cut down would normally be for a 15" ?

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by NIC SURRY

It came with a 20' XR2 and I'm not sure if it ever had a 15",do I presume that the cut down would normally be for a 15" ?

Depends how much it was cut down