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Old 16-10-2013, 12:33 PM   #1
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Country: In the UK, in an offfice, looking out the window at the rain.
Occupation: Chartered Engineer
Interests: boats, water, snow, football
Boat name: DoubleSix
Boat make: Ring 21c
Engines: Opti 200
Cruising area: Lyme Bay

Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 125
Malcolm Cole Fuel tank - Boat Draft and CofG

On seeing the pictures of the Ring 21C accident that had the 350 Verado on the back and comparing it the draft on mine it would seem my 21C with a 200 Opti on the back sits lower in the water at the stern than that one. I also note that when trying to manoeuvre my boat in reverse, the C of G is a long way aft making me look like a total amateur when reversing because there seems to be virtually no distance between the engine and the pivot point and therefore no ability to turn in either direction.

The boat has a 190 litre Malcom Cole Alloy Fuel tank that has never had much more than 100 litres in it since I have had the boat. I usually keep it above 60 litres as i am nervous about the fuel pick up height and 60 litres looks a little lost in that tank!

In view of this, I am considering going for a plastic tank (e.g. Tektank) of possibly up to 80 litres.

Questions:
could I offset the cost of the new tank by selling the old one?
Ideas on how much weight this would save?
Would the CofG move forward much (maybe just a little)?
Or, is there anything I am missing as to why my boat sits deeper at the stern?
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Old 16-10-2013, 05:04 PM   #2
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r21

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleSix View Post
On seeing the pictures of the Ring 21C accident that had the 350 Verado on the back and comparing it the draft on mine it would seem my 21C with a 200 Opti on the back sits lower in the water at the stern than that one. I also note that when trying to manoeuvre my boat in reverse, the C of G is a long way aft making me look like a total amateur when reversing because there seems to be virtually no distance between the engine and the pivot point and therefore no ability to turn in either direction.

The boat has a 190 litre Malcom Cole Alloy Fuel tank that has never had much more than 100 litres in it since I have had the boat. I usually keep it above 60 litres as i am nervous about the fuel pick up height and 60 litres looks a little lost in that tank!

In view of this, I am considering going for a plastic tank (e.g. Tektank) of possibly up to 80 litres.

Questions:
could I offset the cost of the new tank by selling the old one?
Ideas on how much weight this would save?
Would the CofG move forward much (maybe just a little)?
Or, is there anything I am missing as to why my boat sits deeper at the stern?
how do you know that the ring with the verado didn't have a bow fuel tank with 200 quids worth of fuel in it, lifting its rear up a bit , just a thought, all rigs will sit as they need to sit.
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Old 16-10-2013, 11:07 PM   #3
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Country: England
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Boat name: vodka express/smoking aces
Boat make: liberator 221/extreme 24
Engines: 7.4 v8 8.2 v8
Cruising area: Portsmouth

Join Date: Jul 2009
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Never had any problems with turning and parking my 21C anywhere.

That was with gill bracket and lifter, and fuel tank moved to the rear.
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Old 17-10-2013, 09:36 AM   #4
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Country: Guernsey
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Boat name: Slayer II, Slayer, Pen15
Boat make: Phantom 19G-R, Bernico F2 Extreme, Ring 15
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My 21C had around 14" of setback, and it was a nightmare going astern!
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Old 17-10-2013, 02:34 PM   #5
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Move tank

Hi there you could think about moving your tank to a more mid ships area
Just aft of your front seats and fit a bow blast tank
This would help you move your c of g under low speed and high speed
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Old 17-10-2013, 11:29 PM   #6
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Country: In the UK, in an offfice, looking out the window at the rain.
Occupation: Chartered Engineer
Interests: boats, water, snow, football
Boat name: DoubleSix
Boat make: Ring 21c
Engines: Opti 200
Cruising area: Lyme Bay

Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepvee View Post
how do you know that the ring with the verado didn't have a bow fuel tank with 200 quids worth of fuel in it, lifting its rear up a bit , just a thought, all rigs will sit as they need to sit.
Hi DeepVee,
I don't know that at all, that's why I posted - to get others opinions. In my view after seeing that photo, I considered two things, firstly mine sits far deeper at the stern, secondly that my boat/rig probably isn't heavier overall.

This might therefore lead one to believe that it must be light at the front end....But I have a bow ballast tank and it's almost never needed (when going forwards at least!).
Cheers, Lee
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Old 17-10-2013, 11:32 PM   #7
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Country: In the UK, in an offfice, looking out the window at the rain.
Occupation: Chartered Engineer
Interests: boats, water, snow, football
Boat name: DoubleSix
Boat make: Ring 21c
Engines: Opti 200
Cruising area: Lyme Bay

Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by russ williams View Post
Hi there you could think about moving your tank to a more mid ships area
Just aft of your front seats and fit a bow blast tank
This would help you move your c of g under low speed and high speed
Hi Russ,
I have a ballast tank already, it's rarely needed.
Putting a tank further forward would mean removing the floor or giving up the passenger space-it's used as a leisure toy so that wouldn't work

Thanks,
Lee
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Old 18-10-2013, 07:47 AM   #8
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Country: England
Location: Uckfield, East Sussex.
Interests: Water Ski Racing.
Boat name: Both called ‘Irresistible’.
Boat make: Bernico F1 Twin, Monterey 265SC.
Engines: 2 x Mercury 300XS's, Yanmar 315.
Cruising area: South and east coasts. Eastbourne Marina.

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Does it sit lower at the back than this?
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Old 18-10-2013, 08:10 AM   #9
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Country: England
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Double six,

If you send me your email, I'll send you pics of what mine was like.

Stef
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Old 18-10-2013, 08:14 AM   #10
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Country: In the UK, in an offfice, looking out the window at the rain.
Occupation: Chartered Engineer
Interests: boats, water, snow, football
Boat name: DoubleSix
Boat make: Ring 21c
Engines: Opti 200
Cruising area: Lyme Bay

Join Date: Aug 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gar163y View Post
Does it sit lower at the back than this?
Wow! No! but only by three or four inches. I'm guessing that's a twin rig in the photo??

I used to run a single 200 Black Max: the difference in weight is quite considerable, and I had (up until I saw that photo) always put the differences down to that.
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Old 18-10-2013, 08:49 AM   #11
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Country: Guernsey
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Boat name: Slayer II, Slayer, Pen15
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Engines: Evinrude 115HO, Yam 90
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Join Date: Aug 2009
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Mine used to sit not far off the rubstrip
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Old 18-10-2013, 10:39 AM   #12
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Country: England
Location: Uckfield, East Sussex.
Interests: Water Ski Racing.
Boat name: Both called ‘Irresistible’.
Boat make: Bernico F1 Twin, Monterey 265SC.
Engines: 2 x Mercury 300XS's, Yanmar 315.
Cruising area: South and east coasts. Eastbourne Marina.

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Uckfield, East Sussex.
Posts: 725
[QUOTE=DoubleSix;240928]Wow! No! but only by three or four inches. I'm guessing that's a twin rig in the photo??

No that's with a single 300XS. It has no back seat or floor, 12" of setback, three matching hydraulic pumps on the transom, the battery, oil tank and a 32 gallon fuel tank all in the back.

As a twin with two 2.4EFI's, two batteries and a sixty gallon tank it floated two or three inches above the rubbing strip. This meant that if it was rough and you were on the start line full of fuel, you had to keep moving to prevent waves from rolling over the back. Also two large bilge pumps were required just in case one packed up!
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Old 18-10-2013, 10:49 AM   #13
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Country: England
Location: Uckfield, East Sussex.
Interests: Water Ski Racing.
Boat name: Both called ‘Irresistible’.
Boat make: Bernico F1 Twin, Monterey 265SC.
Engines: 2 x Mercury 300XS's, Yanmar 315.
Cruising area: South and east coasts. Eastbourne Marina.

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Uckfield, East Sussex.
Posts: 725
Forgot to add that I also have a steering extension nearly 18" long. This again moves weight back and prevents my legs from getting trapped should I do anything silly.

The boat will travel faster if the engine is just pushing it forward, not wasting horsepower by lifting the nose.

I do also have 24" tabs, bow and belly ballast tanks.
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Old 22-10-2013, 09:28 AM   #14
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RossM & MutsNuts

Quote:
Originally Posted by gar163y View Post
Forgot to add that I also have a steering extension nearly 18" long. This again moves weight back and prevents my legs from getting trapped should I do anything silly.

The boat will travel faster if the engine is just pushing it forward, not wasting horsepower by lifting the nose.

I do also have 24" tabs, bow and belly ballast tanks.
Hi you could talk to RossM &. The MutsNuts
I know they done a hell of a lot to the 300xs that was on the MutsNuts
And lost a fair bit of weight off the engine
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Old 22-10-2013, 09:41 AM   #15
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Country: England
Location: Uckfield, East Sussex.
Interests: Water Ski Racing.
Boat name: Both called ‘Irresistible’.
Boat make: Bernico F1 Twin, Monterey 265SC.
Engines: 2 x Mercury 300XS's, Yanmar 315.
Cruising area: South and east coasts. Eastbourne Marina.

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Uckfield, East Sussex.
Posts: 725
Quote:
Originally Posted by russ williams View Post
Hi you could talk to RossM &. The MutsNuts
I know they done a hell of a lot to the 300xs that was on the MutsNuts
And lost a fair bit of weight off the engine
Ski racing F2 is a standard engine class.
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