Marine Engine debate

[Too Old]

A pair of aluminum block, normally aspirated Donovan motors in a 38 ft Larry Smith Scarab. This is a never raced, race hull with three man bolsters and center steering.

[Too Old]

Mild Merc power in Wes Smiths recently acquired 41 Apache known as "Kageman".

[Too Old]

Ultra reliable 1000hp normally aspirated motors built buy the late oug Lewis for the 36 Skater "On the Prowl". Designed for 200 hours between frenshening.

[Too Old]

More conservative, reliable power. These were built by 70 plus year old engine builder Troy Dennis. Troy was THE engine builder back in the day who built kilo breaking motors for Reggie Fountains "Ohio Steel" boats.

[Jon]

Originally posted by Too Old
Being a guest on this site, I'll respectfully disagree.

While you right, the 7.4 is a slug, the block is a good starting point to make serious horsepower.

Unfortunately, the 7.4 is the least desirable big block motor. It's loaded with cast parts and you may as well forget adding performance enhancements without starting over with the bare block.

I'm going to let a few photos from my engine builders shop do my talking in reguards to us poor yanks our woefully inadequate engine technology.

These made a bit over 1100 hp on the dyno on Wednesday and are going in my Sutphen shortly.

Thanks for the pictures and respectful disagreement (Even though you may be a guest on this site, you dont have to be respectful )

The point i made originally, was not really one of whether the Americans are able to build quality engines or not. The point i was really trying to make (Bearing in mind the Financial constraints on boaters in the UK) was that more economical and powerful smaller capacity engines are available for marinisation.

My local Fuel Berth is currently charging just over $2.00 a litre for unleaded! and believe me this price is only going to move in one direction in the future.

It is with that in mind that my comments were made about the cheaply sourced big capacity american engines that are used in most boats and there is a need for more efficient powerplants if there is to be a future boating industry in this country.

Many Boaters have moved over to Diesel Power in order to reduce the cost of boating, but now the price of diesel is expected to rise to almost the same price as unleaded fuel!

The important thing to remember is that "Necessity is the Mother of Invention" and the boundaries of Technology only ever move if their is a need to move them (either for financial gain or for some vital importance that may effect lives, such as War).

The United States has for many years enjoyed a comfortable climate and there has been no need or desire to make more economical engines outside of California.

Are Americans now accepting the Compact car?

Getting back on track, those engines that you posted look really pretty, but are really no more than a large capacity pumps fed by a large capacity pump. If you remove the Blower, you are probably realistically looking at an 8 litre engine relliably putting out say 600 to 650 hp? That equates to about 79hp per litre at 20 gallons an hour WOT.

If i lived in America id think, So what, it works well, that'll do for me! But i dont live in America so if i wish to be boating in my Eighties (Which i do) i only have two options that i am aware of, 1. Move to the USA or 2. Seek out an alternative powersource so i may be able to fulfill my dreams.

Sorry if that rambles on a bit, but ive gotta get off to work now and find some more of "Her Majesty's Finest Folding Stuff"

[Jon Fuller]

Originally posted by R-Don
If you remove the Blower, you are probably realistically looking at an 8 litre engine relliably putting out say 600 to 650 hp? That equates to about 79hp per litre at 20 gallons an hour WOT.

650hp ....20 galls/hour! I'll have a pair, in fact I'll have two pairs.

Our 502efi, when new & standard, used 44 Imperial gallons an hour flat (as you are when racing) and probably didn't exceed 400 genuine hp.

After a bit of fiddling about, and a few mods, it ran cleaner (as standard there would be a slight sooty deposit left on the transom after a race)
Made about 450-460hp, and used 40 galls hour.

So, if you can build a 650 that'll use 20, I'm interested.

My diesels are (a genuine) 325hp, they use 15 galls/hour @ WOT but of course diesel power does use less in terms of galls/hour, so not a good comparison.

And, as Simon Johnston likes to point out, they smoke more than 'Slash'!

[Ben]

A pretty reliable rule of thumb is 10gph per hour per 100hp for petrol, and 5 gph per hour per 100 hp for diesel. Both being at WOT.

With petrol, throttling back to 2/3 throttle cuts fuel use by about 50%. Not sure how that works with diesel.

Nice looking engines Too Old.

[Louise]

Originally posted by Ned
A pretty reliable rule of thumb is 10gph per hour per 100hp for petrol

Ned, are you talking 2 stroke or 4? Old technology or new?

Edit: Ignore that - I guess you're talking about huuuuuge inboards!

[Jon Fuller]

Sounds about right, so imagine if Fred runs his Sutphen hard, which I'm sure he will, he can easily expect to burn 200 imperial gallons (about 230 US galls) per hour

Well Fred, over here that would cost you about $1800/hour jeez! makes my 50 bucks/hour look pretty feeble!

[Jon Fuller]

Fred, are you going/exibiting at the Miami show in Feb?

[Too Old]

Originally posted by R-Don
[B]Thanks for the pictures and respectful disagreement (Even though you may be a guest on this site, you dont have to be respectful )

The point i made originally, was not really one of whether the Americans are able to build quality engines or not. The point i was really trying to make (Bearing in mind the Financial constraints on boaters in the UK) was that more economical and powerful smaller capacity engines are available for marinisation.

My local Fuel Berth is currently charging just over $2.00 a litre for unleaded! and believe me this price is only going to move in one direction in the future.

It is with that in mind that my comments were made about the cheaply sourced big capacity american engines that are used in most boats and there is a need for more efficient powerplants if there is to be a future boating industry in this country.

Many Boaters have moved over to Diesel Power in order to reduce the cost of boating, but now the price of diesel is expected to rise to almost the same price as unleaded fuel!

The important thing to remember is that "Necessity is the Mother of Invention" and the boundaries of Technology only ever move if their is a need to move them (either for financial gain or for some vital importance that may effect lives, such as War).

The United States has for many years enjoyed a comfortable climate and there has been no need or desire to make more economical engines outside of California.

Are Americans now accepting the Compact car?

Well it appears I missed your point completely. Chalk it up to my narrow view of the world.

If you follow some of the US forums like OSO, you'll see somewhere between very little and no talk at all about fuel economy. I think from my perspective at least, big fast boats and economy are pretty well diametrically opposed.

Most if not all of the boat owners over here who could afford to spend the kind of money these boats and engines cost don't bat an eye when it comes time to feed them. Fuel is a relativly small cost in the overall budget to own and operate a boat in this country. A new Outerlimits probably averages north of $600,000 these days.

And no, America is not embracing the compact car. This is the land of the SUV.

There are a few performance boats being produced with diesels over here, but very few. I saw a 38 Powerplay being built last year with Yanmars and Arneson drives and a nice MTI cat at the Miami Boat Show last Febuary but they certainly aren't common place at all.

On this side of the pond, names like Sterling, Chief, Cobra and Zul rule the waters and own the kilo records. They are not concerned with fuel economy. They have a single purpose. To build big power for the worlds fastest offshore boats.

While our motors may not fulfil your personal boating needs, they are spot on for their intended market.

I am open to hearing about the latest technology from europe though.

[Jon Fuller]

Fred, I think Mr Don's idea is that the engines to 'save us' are gonna come from Japan.

As you've clearly read the whole thread, I don't need to say any more, weve done whole topic

[Jon Fuller]

172mph in a Mono

177 one way

200 odd in a cat (Offshore)

[Jon Fuller]

wotz happened there? put it back .....mr boat dude!

[JamesM]

Sorry, I looked at my question "what is the kilo record" and then realised its probably a timed kilometer, so I deleted it about 5 seconds after I posted it. Now I'm thinking maybe not as the americans are imperial.

[Jon Fuller]

172mph

[Jon Fuller]

Yes, Reggies was a Kilo

[Too Old]

Originally posted by R-Don


........ if you go the whole hog this engine in motorsport has achieved 1200hp.

Bring on the Amercian challenger please.

OK, here ya go. No theories, no speculation, no endless pontification.....

Just the real deal. Available today to drop in your Formula. Tested and proven in real world marine application. This is the Racecrafters 2000hp. By the way, they make smaller power also. Not as small as your 1200 hp Nissan mind you, but if you want to conservative when you repower the Formula they'll build you a set of 1400, 1600 or 1800hp motors.

Bring on the Nissan....

[Too Old]

Originally posted by R-Don


America is the largest engine manufacturer and as such build high volume for low cost. This is the only reason people around the world use their products cos their cheap and plentiful.

Dont get me wrong, they are nice engines, just lazy and old hat.

Here's more "cheap, lazy and old hat" for R-Don. 860ci aluminum block Torque V-12. Only 1500hp. How many of these cheap lazy puppies can I send you for the Formula?

It's no Nissan, but I'd suffer.

[Jon Fuller]