Mercury help wanted

jqualtrough · 21-09-2010, 07:27 AM

A year ago I bought an outboard off Steve Hutchinson as running, but it won't. I've tried phoning, texting, e-mailing, but he won't reply, so can anyone else help. The engine is a Mercury 150hp injection model which has been converted to carbs; Steve claimed the horse power is now 200. When I say it won't run, it will start, but won't tick over (dies) and won't pick up or rev out. So far I've fitted new plugs, checked the reeds, had carbs sonic cleaned, then stripped and boiled carbs, checked and adjusted throttle linkage, checked and adjusted crank and max timing. My problem is I'm on the Isle of Man, so can't easily get engine to anyone, help and advice is what I need. Thanks in advance.

Tris · 21-09-2010, 09:03 PM

back to basics here and sorry if you have checked. fuel system?
is it fresh fuel. have you tried connecting to a different fuel source. just as a starter?

Hydrostream · 21-09-2010, 10:05 PM

Whats the compression?
What was the engine originaly? and what carbs are on it now with what jets?

Has the bleed system been put on the motor since the conversion?

Where is the idle/pickup timing set?

dowdy · 22-09-2010, 08:11 AM

When did the problem occur?Recently or a year ago?

boatnut · 22-09-2010, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jqualtrough

A year ago I bought an outboard off Steve Hutchinson as running, but it won't. I've tried phoning, texting, e-mailing, but he won't reply, so can anyone else help. The engine is a Mercury 150hp injection model which has been converted to carbs; Steve claimed the horse power is now 200. When I say it won't run, it will start, but won't tick over (dies) and won't pick up or rev out. So far I've fitted new plugs, checked the reeds, had carbs sonic cleaned, then stripped and boiled carbs, checked and adjusted throttle linkage, checked and adjusted crank and max timing. My problem is I'm on the Isle of Man, so can't easily get engine to anyone, help and advice is what I need. Thanks in advance.

is it worth putting a clear in line filter on the fuel line, so that you can see if its starving ,draining ,of fuel when you are trying to rev it, just a thought , good luck

boatnut · 22-09-2010, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jqualtrough

A year ago I bought an outboard off Steve Hutchinson as running, but it won't. I've tried phoning, texting, e-mailing, but he won't reply, so can anyone else help. The engine is a Mercury 150hp injection model which has been converted to carbs; Steve claimed the horse power is now 200. When I say it won't run, it will start, but won't tick over (dies) and won't pick up or rev out. So far I've fitted new plugs, checked the reeds, had carbs sonic cleaned, then stripped and boiled carbs, checked and adjusted throttle linkage, checked and adjusted crank and max timing. My problem is I'm on the Isle of Man, so can't easily get engine to anyone, help and advice is what I need. Thanks in advance.

another problem thats been mentioned on here a few times, is maybe the fuel system on the boat might not be breathing properly, try loosening off fuel cap

jqualtrough · 22-09-2010, 06:31 PM

Fuel tank is stainless under deck, drained and inspected and found to be clean. Tank fitted with breather which works fine, new hoses fitted to primer bulb, filter and water separator. With pipe off carbs, fuel pump delivers well into beaker on cranking. Tank filled with fresh fuel. Gauge not long enough to set .462" BTDC, but I was careful in my attempts to set pointer at TDC. Trigger link rod set at 11/16" (17.5mm), throttle cam adjusted to mark, static idle timing adjusted to 9 degree ATDC, static maximum timing adjusted to 19 degree BTDC, Throttle valve / oil pump adjusted to marks. Don't know carb model, but marks on carbs are 23-1 2182, 3311-821687C, WMH, XK. Main jets 076, idle jets 050, vent jets 070 in LHS only (nothing in RHS hole). Engine was bought a year ago for another boat but not used so don't know if it ran then. Due to the time it's been standing had carbs sonic cleaned then boiled (when sonic cleaning didn't improve things). Haven't equipment to test compression, but engine turns over freely with plugs out and with reasonable compression with plugs in. Sorry for ignorance, but what is bleed system? Checked enricher which engages and disengages. Water test; starts, but only with extra throttle. Even after 5 min warm up, will not tick over without dying. In gear, will not pull at all; if it was fuel starvation I would expect it to accelerate initially with float chambers full then stutter as they empty. What else

.
Thanks so far

Hydrostream · 22-09-2010, 08:49 PM

Sounds ok, if it is a 200 the jets may be a bit light but thats not your issue here!
The bleed system (bleed hoses) is a system of hoses connecting the transfer ports on each cylinder to the reed valve area, stops the engine loading up and flooding.

Need to do a compression test.

Move the idle/ pickup timing up to split case. (centre the arm off the trigger to the split in the crankcase halves), & set the carb roller just off the cam.

Remove any idle control/ spark advance boxes and set max timing to 25 deg.

jqualtrough · 22-09-2010, 09:06 PM

Hydrostream.
Bleed hoses all seem to be attached, and paint would suggest original; can't see any splits or damage.
Will borrow compression tester - give me a couple of days on that one.
Not sure what you mean by idle / pick up timing to split case. Sorry
Presume idle control / spark advance is the black and white lead; will reset max timing. Again give me a couple of days.
Many thanks

Hydrostream · 22-09-2010, 10:32 PM

Ok, there were no bleed hoses on an injected motor, thats why I asked.

the idle timing is where the timing is before it advances with throttle. set the arm off the trigger under the flywheel exactly at the join where the two halves of the crank case bolt together.
It will probably idle quite high here but you can bring it back to where its happy after you get sorted.

No, the black and white lead between the switch boxes is the bias wire.
Is there a black box mounted on top of the motor anywhere, on top of the airbox or on the side? How many wires off it?
Do not reset max timing until your sure theres no spark advance module.

Jay Smith · 23-09-2010, 07:39 AM

Make sure the carbs have enough fuel supply . Are you running the stock pulse style vacum fuel pump or an electric helper? You must have 3-5 PSI at the carbs for the motor to run.

If you have access to a TDC indicator gauge make SURE the static pointer is correct at true TDC on #1.. After thats established and TDC on # 1 mark on flywheel is now directly in line with pointer rotate dial gauge bezel to 0. Next slowly rotate flywheel COUNTER CLOCKWISE .150" OR 1 1/2 turns of the BEZEL this will equal 25 degrees on the flywheel check and see if 25 degrees is in alignment with static pointer. . Repeat this with ALL holes marking the 25 degree marks on ALL 6 on the flywheel with white paint. Next ground ALL plugs to the block OR attach to a multi spark gap tester and advance the throttle arm to WOT and shoot timing on ALL holes. This will tell you if the switch boxes are firing in correct sequence or double firing.

The JSRE TDC indicator gauge that I make and sell is IMO one of the BEST troubleshooting tools an outboard guy can own I know NO ONE in the states thats a serious racer and most large volume Mercury dealers thats doesn't own one..... I sell at least 3-5 a week..

Good luck,
Jay @ JSRE

steve h · 23-09-2010, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jqualtrough

A year ago I bought an outboard off Steve Hutchinson as running, but it won't. I've tried phoning, texting, e-mailing, but he won't reply, so can anyone else help. The engine is a Mercury 150hp injection model which has been converted to carbs; Steve claimed the horse power is now 200. When I say it won't run, it will start, but won't tick over (dies) and won't pick up or rev out. So far I've fitted new plugs, checked the reeds, had carbs sonic cleaned, then stripped and boiled carbs, checked and adjusted throttle linkage, checked and adjusted crank and max timing. My problem is I'm on the Isle of Man, so can't easily get engine to anyone, help and advice is what I need. Thanks in advance.

there are 2 sides to ever story but alas im not prepared to air it on here,the engine was removed running from a customers boat that was emergrating ,and is well over 12 months a go,if you had a problem you should of returned it within 3 months,or even 6 months, but to come on here after 12 months trying to name and shame doesnt work.
as for returning your messages,after you had left in summer after picking rigging stuff up,i find you been upsetting locals with your attitude and again trying to slag me off,and get my home address,obviously the phone call the day before explaining due to family issues i wouldnt be at at yard ,didnt sink in,
thats all im going to say on here about it,and thank god after 26 years im out of it, steve

, .

jqualtrough · 24-09-2010, 06:33 PM

Steve. As you know, I bought this engine for another project which I sold on; I didn't start building this new project until this spring. I've been trying to talk to you for 6 months about this, the reason this has taken so long is because you won't reply to my texts, e-mails or phone messages and I didn't have all the bits. You did a great job for me a couple of years ago on another engine and I trusted you when I bought this one. Your message here on the forum shows no intention to help me, just as your lack of replies previously haven't helped. A year ago you had an XR2 gearbox and Alien cowl of mine, I had a buyer for the gearbox but missed out on the sale because you wouldn't send it to Southampton. When I did manage to speak to you earlier this year, you told me that your premises had been broken into and the gearbox and cowl had been stolen; I've written these off. All I want is this engine to work. I think I've been patient and reasonable enough - no boat all summer. I'm on the Isle of Man, I'm not in Fleetwood every week, so when I was passing I called to your premises to collect the missing bits. How was I supposed to test the engine before without them. I called at your premises several times but kept missing you, that's why I asked locals where I could find you and where your home was, the only slagging off I've done is because you won't speak to me. Please, just help me get this engine working. I know you know your stuff when it comes to these engines, if you remember, I even sent you an e-mail earlier in the summer offering to pay to fly you to the Isle of Man for the day to sort it. There are two sides to every story, but I'm not the bad guy here. All I want to do is go boating

jqualtrough · 25-09-2010, 12:40 PM

Compression of cylinders as follows:
1 120psi
2 128psi
3 112psi
4 128psi
5 128psi
6 130psi
I'll check fuel flow, maybe rig an electric pump to make sure.
I'll re-check TDC and timing as Jay has suggested.
Still not sure where the spark advance module is, I'll have another look though and I'll reset the throttle arm
Thanks everybody

Jon Fuller · 25-09-2010, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve h

thank god after 26 years im out of it, steve

Have you packed up the business Steve?

larby · 25-09-2010, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jqualtrough

Compression of cylinders as follows:
1 120psi
2 128psi
3 112psi
4 128psi
5 128psi
6 130psi

Don't like the look of that, may be worth retesting and looking into. Doubt it's the cause of your problem, but it's not a good figure being 18psi under the rest.

Steve's a really good guy, but he can be tricky to contact. I know how he feels though. I try to help absolutely everyone out, take on way too much or forget about something then end up pissing people off instead and burying my head in the sand when it all gets too much. I'd guess Steve is much the same. He's been so helpful to me, but has been impossible to contact at times.

Just my 2p,

James

baj666 · 25-09-2010, 06:04 PM

yep as larby has stated Steve is a good guy imho..knows his stuff and gone well past the call of duty to help me in the past

like any sole trader can be very very busy at times and in my books that good news.

jqualtrough · 26-09-2010, 08:57 AM

larby, baj666, I hope I got those sentiments over too in my reply to him, I like the guy, I know he knows his stuff, he's been good to me in the past, but he is burying his head in the sand a bit at the moment which has made it very frustrating for me.
I treble checked cylinder 3, don't worry. Like you say, not good, but unlikely to be the total cause. With the engine being modified, my concern has been the timing set-up and what to set it at. The possible fuel starvation is something I've got to rule out too, lets face it - it's a 2 stroke so fuel and spark and it should run.
Steve. The offer still stands on the trip to the Isle of Man, the flight from Blackpool airport is only 20 minutes.

Jay Smith · 01-10-2010, 03:10 PM

Did you ever find your engine problem ?

Just curious...
Jay

jqualtrough · 03-10-2010, 09:44 PM

Thanks for everybody's help on the forum. It was fresh fuel, brand new rubber pipes, filter and water separator, I've added an electric fuel pump, re-set timings, disconnected spark advance module, even had a mate keep pumping the primer bulb (which was always firm), did all the things everybody suggested and just had another disappointing test. Time for a new engine. Expensive lesson learned. Thanks again.