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Old 24-12-2010, 07:35 PM   #61
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Another Solution

Would you not be better off buying the Tony's boat that's allready been refurbed as its going to cost you few quid in materials alone to refurb yours and a lot of grief by the sound of it,just a thought.Nic
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Old 24-12-2010, 09:44 PM   #62
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Hi Nic. Tony´s boat is a race boat, with history. Not quite the type of boat for cruising around the Balearic islands, and the Greek islands.

And, where would I put the cocktail bar?

Pete
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Old 27-12-2010, 11:10 AM   #63
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Hi All,

After searching on here, I have found conflicting ideas about the additional prop shaft height when adding setback.

So, I thought that I would ask the question direct.

Is there a calculation for this, ie, amount to raise, compared to distance from transom?

If not, what are your ideas on this principle?

My reason for asking this is, I have noticed that the TRS drive sits about 5" 1/2 further away from the transom, than the Alpha or Bravo.

I have also found this ( http://www.boatfix.com/merc/Install/gas/86017211.pdf ) for the installation of the Alpha / Bravo drives. Does anyone know of a similar system (90 degree tool..Page 12) for finding the correct drive shaft horizontal centerline for the TRS?

Thanks

Pete
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Old 27-12-2010, 12:37 PM   #64
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I really wouldn't worry about using the 90 degree tool method, a tape measure does an identical job. The difference in transom angles only makes a mm or 2 difference to the actual measurement.

As for a calculation, there isn't one, it's all guess work and a bit of experience helps. My advice would be to go for a similar height +1" that the Alpha's were installed at, the 1" being an allowance for the extra setback.
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Old 27-12-2010, 01:21 PM   #65
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Thanks Tony,

As far as I can work it out (will double check it) it looks like the old drives were 1.5" above hull. So this confirms your 1" to 2" above suggestion.

So, the TRS drives should have the cavitation plate 2.5" above hull, correct?

I am basing these measurements on the Alpha gen 2 drawings (can´t find a gen 1 drawing), that appear to match the measurements that I took from the Gen 1´s that were on there. With the measurements from the transom, taken vertically, not along the transom.

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Old 27-12-2010, 09:43 PM   #66
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Not trying to negate anything anyone has said about the X dimension but it's worth bearing in mind that if you get it a little too high it'll forever be a pest, if it's a little too low you probably won't notice it... though you'll always wonder. hehe.
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Old 27-12-2010, 09:54 PM   #67
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Not trying to negate anything anyone has said about the X dimension but it's worth bearing in mind that if you get it a little too high it'll forever be a pest, if it's a little too low you probably won't notice it... though you'll always wonder. hehe.
Thanks, To be honest JW, I can´t afford to wonder. I have gone out on a limb with this one and I must get it as good as possible. She is for personal use so some mistakes can be ignored.

Just want to make a good, fun, ride.

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Old 27-12-2010, 10:01 PM   #68
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The problem is you can't know until you've done it and committed yourself, you can only guesstimate it. If you're going for a high setup it would be good to know whether a spacer is available for your drive to lower it an inch or so if necessary. IMHO of course.
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Old 27-12-2010, 10:22 PM   #69
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The problem is you can't know until you've done it and committed yourself, you can only guesstimate it. If you're going for a high setup it would be good to know whether a spacer is available for your drive to lower it an inch or so if necessary. IMHO of course.
As it is now, I have €??000.00 of engines and drives. I have a good shell, in my mind. All I need now is some knowledge and some more cash. Then,,, I think I will have something to be proud of. I don´t think there are spacers for the TRS, so not sure about that one. I´m sure there are many people on here, who know what I´m entering into. Hope they speak load and soon.

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Old 28-12-2010, 06:40 PM   #70
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I don't know if there's a spacer for an alpha drive or trs, a google search could probably answer that one. I'd imagine there is though, I know they do it for bravos.

The 'play it safe, go low' advice is good. As he said at worst you might lose a couple of mph if you're too low, you'll probably never know. If you go too high though, you may be totally unable to get on the plane. Just a thought.

That said, with the way Tony's worked it out, I'd say he's being quite conservative so you should be fine, plus he really knows what he's talking about!

James
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Old 28-12-2010, 08:07 PM   #71
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I don't know if there's a spacer for an alpha drive or trs, a google search could probably answer that one. I'd imagine there is though, I know they do it for bravos.

The 'play it safe, go low' advice is good. As he said at worst you might lose a couple of mph if you're too low, you'll probably never know. If you go too high though, you may be totally unable to get on the plane. Just a thought.

That said, with the way Tony's worked it out, I'd say he's being quite conservative so you should be fine, plus he really knows what he's talking about!

James
Hi James,

I have to agree with you on that. I also got that feeling about Tony and he´s been very helpful too. I did manage to find some coppies from an original TRS installation manual and it has the measurements. So, with this and Tony´s suggested 2.5 inch up, it should be a lot easier to get the position correct. It´s interesting how they show measurements for single and twin setups, for the TRS and only one set of measurement for the Alpha.

I hope to find a paper template for the drive installation, when it comes to actually marking the transom, to cut.

Cheers

Pete
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Old 28-12-2010, 08:47 PM   #72
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I did manage to find some coppies from an original TRS installation manual and it has the measurements. So, with this and Tony´s suggested 2.5 inch up, it should be a lot easier to get the position correct. It´s interesting how they show measurements for single and twin setups, for the TRS and only one set of measurement for the Alpha.

Tables below
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Old 02-01-2011, 12:32 PM   #73
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Just a few thoughts for you. It's worth bearing mind that as your X height gets higher so does your engine and therefore your centre of gravity so there's a wee compromise in max speed versus handling. On the plus side, your exhaust gets higher too so there's less of a problem with the risk of seawater flooding your exhaust. But, as the engine gets higher you may begin to get tight on the space to route the exhausts out of the transom. It's all a compromise and probably better if you have everything to hand and ready to install to work out all the dimensions satisfactorily.
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Old 02-01-2011, 01:53 PM   #74
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Hi Jw,

Thanks for your comments.

The new height of the engines was, and is, one of my biggest concerns. As you say, this will make the centre of gravity higher and also the aft bathing area. I might have to modify the stern sides to allow for this also. Raising the X is only because these engines are wider than usual and they have TRS drives, not purely for max speed. She will never be a race boat but maybe quite a fast pleasure boat.

I am looking at the idea of solid front engine mounts, so that I can keep the engines closer together, thus keeping the distance between the engine centres less and the X lower. I´m not sure about these but I do see they are used a lot for offshore boats. I guess this will mean adding new stringers or making a new crossmember (containing two merc offshore mounts) and fit to the original position. I´m not sure how this would work so any ideas would be great.

I have got all the exhaust, up to the transom.

Thanks

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Old 03-01-2011, 08:50 AM   #75
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Solid mounts will result in a fair bit of vibration and noise through the boat from the motors, I'm not sure I'd like it on a leisure boat, I'd just move em further apart.
How much further apart than standard would they have to be? With the setup dimensions it shouldn't be hard at all to work out where the drives should be.
As jw mentioned, as you're not going for balls out top end, you're unlikely to ever notice if you're a couple of inches low, which you would be wise to be. With that in mind, play it safe and you'll be good. I've found through the couple of builds that I've done that you're far better off geting some good advice and just getting on with it, than you are sitting and worrying about things for ages! Just look through my threads at how long I spent worrying about what drive to use. After all that I'm still just going with a bravo for now!

All the best, James
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Old 15-01-2011, 11:51 AM   #76
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Hi James,

Sorry for not getting back before, have been off line for a while.

Point taken re solid mounts. The centres are 36", as aposed to the standard 33". This allows for a 4" gap, between both engines. If there was some way to fit a shock absorbing spacer, between the top / fronts of both engines, I could get them closer than 4" apart. I've never seen anything like this but was wondering if this was possible. Maybe a metal joining bar with an engine mount in the middle? something like that?

Thanks

Pete

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Solid mounts will result in a fair bit of vibration and noise through the boat from the motors, I'm not sure I'd like it on a leisure boat, I'd just move em further apart.
How much further apart than standard would they have to be? With the setup dimensions it shouldn't be hard at all to work out where the drives should be.
As jw mentioned, as you're not going for balls out top end, you're unlikely to ever notice if you're a couple of inches low, which you would be wise to be. With that in mind, play it safe and you'll be good. I've found through the couple of builds that I've done that you're far better off geting some good advice and just getting on with it, than you are sitting and worrying about things for ages! Just look through my threads at how long I spent worrying about what drive to use. After all that I'm still just going with a bravo for now!

All the best, James
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Old 15-01-2011, 07:10 PM   #77
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Entirely possible, though you'd need one front and back. I used to tune cars and it's quite common to have a little very firm shok absorber bracing the motor to the engine bay to reduce engine movement, for those too tight/lazy to use uprated engine mounts.

Something along those lines between the motors along with uprated mounts should solve the issue, 4" is quite a gap as it is!

James
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Old 16-01-2011, 04:33 AM   #78
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Just by looking at your pictures, U WILL NOT HAVE ANY PROBLEM AT ALL.

there is plenty of room for 2 tall deck engines in that engine bay, the way it is.
Only thing where it gets tricky is the exhaust and they make all kind of headers or manifolds for different centerlines.

Example, a 33 Powerplay has only a centerline of 34 inches ( that is from crankshaft center 1. engine to crankshaft center 2. engine ) and they fit a twin BBC talldeck in there !

Its just a thoguht job to change sparkplugs and work on them.

Hope this helps you and i did not read all 4 pages, so i am sorry if this is a double post!
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Old 16-01-2011, 07:39 AM   #79
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Just by looking at your pictures, U WILL NOT HAVE ANY PROBLEM AT ALL.

there is plenty of room for 2 tall deck engines in that engine bay, the way it is.
Only thing where it gets tricky is the exhaust and they make all kind of headers or manifolds for different centerlines.

Example, a 33 Powerplay has only a centerline of 34 inches ( that is from crankshaft center 1. engine to crankshaft center 2. engine ) and they fit a twin BBC talldeck in there !

Its just a thoguht job to change sparkplugs and work on them.

Hope this helps you and i did not read all 4 pages, so i am sorry if this is a double post!
Isn't it just great when someone can solve every problem you've got without even bothering to see what the problem is?!
I don't know why we all even bothered posting and trying to help for the last few months, should've just PM'd Daredevil the oracle!!



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Old 16-01-2011, 03:30 PM   #80
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Why do u nonknowing di(khead have to quote me all the time ??
Are u in love with me? ....i am not gay dude.


On the other hand, in his first post he was asking if he will have a problem fitting 2 engines next to each other without moving the drives.

THE ANSER IS NO !!!!
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