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Old 09-06-2007, 08:55 PM   #1
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No Cooling

Fired up my engine this afternoon after puting my old 2.5 merc powerhead on an XR2 offshore mid and CLE box but I've got no water coming out of the tell tale. I took the box off and put a hose on the pipe going up into the leg but still nothing comes out . Does the water flow differ on an offshore? What route does it take from the pipe leaving the water pump and then into the sandwich plate between powerhead and mid section and then round the block? I'm confused. HELP
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Old 09-06-2007, 09:38 PM   #2
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Do you know the history of the mid section?

If it's had a hefty pump failure at some point, all the remains of the pump blades 'can' get lodged at the point where the copper pipe pushes into the rubber receiver in the casting at the top, blocking the waterway.

Just an idea.
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Old 09-06-2007, 09:57 PM   #3
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Hi John, I had the midsection completely apart to get the exaust section taken out to 2.5 size and that was all clear. I've either done something so simple and stupid wrong or the water flows through to the block and out differently to my old set up, I'm baffled. I don't want to take the powerhead off again if I can help it.
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Old 09-06-2007, 10:14 PM   #4
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Does the powerhead have thermostats fitted ?
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Old 09-06-2007, 11:23 PM   #5
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I don't think so, but it was run up a week or so ago on the old set up and all was well.
I think I've done some dodgy plumbing somewhere. What is the route for the water?
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Old 10-06-2007, 08:28 AM   #6
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no water

See if you can hook up the hose to the waterpipe again (if lower unit is still removed)
and supply water,check on top of the block if you have water there.
If so the block is pumped full with water,if the block is an 200,water flow is a bit different here ,you have a relief valve on the right side ,just below the switch boxes,that one opens if there is enough water pressure ,and dumps the water in the adapterplate.
the 200 ,s have thermostats,if not there should be a ring with a small hole instead ,to maintain water press.
there is another hose coming from the top of the block ,just behind the flywheel in the center between the 2 cilinder banks,that hose is running to a T ,see if you find water there.

the offshore mid does not have the hose to the adapter plate on the left side ,like a 200 does have ,see if all is hooked up right.

check if the water pipe is sitting in a rubber boot inside the adapter plate
sometimes when the rubber is dry ,and the pipe does have a burr ,you can push the rubber 90 degrees so it actually blocks the water pass,or its leaking water ,so there is not enough flow to the powerhead.
check the relief valve too ,and clean it carefully and put is together with a little grease.

It should,t be that difficult ,but it can take some time to locate the problem.

good luck

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Old 10-06-2007, 09:07 AM   #7
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Diagram of waterway.
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Old 10-06-2007, 09:37 AM   #8
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Thanks Roofer/Sterling. I'm going through a check list this morning. I did check yesterday and I wasn't getting any water to the outlet at the centre of the block at the top. So It looks like it might be a blockage further down. Is it easy to put the tube back into the rubber grommet once it's out. Can you see it from underneath ?
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Old 10-06-2007, 10:04 AM   #9
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You can probably get the water tube back in OK, the difficult part is getting it out without damaging the lower end. To check ifits blocked try and find something to feed up into the pipe measure how far it goes up, then compare that to the outside and see if it reaches the plate before hitting a obstruction. As a suggestion flexabble net curtain wire to poke up it.

Also, if you have a one piece plate and a poppet valve on the block it's never going to work without modifying it, Do you have a one piece plate?

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Old 10-06-2007, 10:19 AM   #10
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From the last post to explain why the one piece plate is a problem. On the drawing supplied by 'Roofer', where it say's 'water discharge afte the valve(poppet) with a 'P', that water has a dedicated channel cast in going through the plate and into the mid, on a one piece plate that doesn't exist so that water has nowhere to go eccept down the tiny holes for cooling the exhaust. If you have a one piece plate. At minimum you have to strip the guts out of the poppet and fit a union on the cover, dumping the water outside. On mine I modified the the poppet valve, but it was a bit more involved and i'll explain if required

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Old 10-06-2007, 10:57 AM   #11
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if you,ve put a standard 2.5power head on to a one peice adaptor plate you will have no water pressure becuse the one peice dumps much more water due to the larger holes in it.. the poppet also does,nt open.
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Old 10-06-2007, 12:51 PM   #12
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Your right about the water pressure......zilch. After putting a hose on the copper pipe again after removing and then replacing it it I managed to get water circulation and water coming out of the tell tale. I then put the leg back on and again nothing. Took it off again and took the water pump apart and it was full of crap ( I was told that the pump had had a new impeller) anyway I put a new impeller in, replaced it all but still no water pressure, unlesss you blip the throttle to raise the revs and then you get a stream of water out of the tell tale. ( I'm running it in a tank and the water is at cavitation plate level)
It's a standard 2.5 on a solid plate and the poppet valve is still in.
What do I need to do to raise the water pressure? Youre right about the water coming out around the exhaust tuner, I looked up the leg and using a torch you can see it coming out of the 4 holes.
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Old 10-06-2007, 03:07 PM   #13
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To test it properly you need it deeper than the plate . At idle your water pressure will be low because of the 4 1/8 holes plus the tell-tale if the thermostats are open. At high speed you should see the water pressure go way up and probably too high, and this is the biggest problem. The reason is there is nowhere for the water that used to come out of the poppet valve to go anymore, other than the holes metioned earlier.

You are going to have to remove all the guts from the poppet valve drill into the cover and fit a water fitting and the via an inline ball valve you adjust the flow at WOT for the pressure you want

Alternatively, and more complicated , I machined up an extension piece of about 40mm and the same diameter as the poppet body also an extension piece to lengthen the poppet plunger by again 40mm, along with a screw 40mm longer that goes through the diaphram. Then drilled and tapped a hole for a water fitting to go into my new extension, and took this out the cowl via a hose. The result is a system that still has the benefit of the poppet regulator but dumping outside the mid.

I'll take a picture shortly and post it.

All this is assuming you have the single and not twin chamber poppet valve.

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Old 10-06-2007, 03:23 PM   #14
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Picture of Poppet mod

The picture of poppet mod with dump hose removed for clarity So far only tested in the tank but seems to work OK

Karl
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Old 10-06-2007, 05:51 PM   #15
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My poppet valve is different to yours it looks like it might be a twin chamber poppet valve.
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Old 10-06-2007, 06:15 PM   #16
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One chamber about 2 1/2 inches and another next to it bout 1 1/2?

Probably still not impossible to sort it out but I have never seen one in the flesh. My block has been cast for your type but the small chamber has be fitted with a core plug at the factory. If you look at my picture, and at the cover for the valve, you can see the remains of the branch that connects to the second chamber facing forward.

You may still be able to use the other method where you drill, tap and fit a water fitting on the outer cover and then throw away the diaphram, spring and valve from the inside.

Can you remove the poppet and tell me if there is anything inside the small chamber, including any water passages
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Old 10-06-2007, 06:54 PM   #17
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Here's a picture of the valve
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Old 10-06-2007, 07:18 PM   #18
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The pipe from the valve goes up to the top of the block just behind the flywheel and there's a t piece where the water pressure pipe is connected. I presume that the water flows from the top of the block down through the poppet valve and out through the one piece plate.
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Old 10-06-2007, 08:22 PM   #19
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I'm guessing that rubber hose from the top down to the valve is to bleed off any air that may be sitting at the top of the block. It won't be carrying any significant volume of water.

I think that if you remove the poppet cover you will find that behind the small chamber it will have no passage into the block just a small entry into the bigger chamber, If that is the case you would be able to put a fitting on the larger cover as described earlier
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Old 10-06-2007, 08:30 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marshan162 View Post
I'm guessing that rubber hose from the top down to the valve is to bleed off any air that may be sitting at the top of the block. It won't be carrying any significant volume of water.
On on the old set up it used to give a reading of about 5psi on tickover and 15psi on wot.
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