Boatmad.com


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 01-11-2011, 05:39 PM   #1
Too many projects.....
 
pugracer285's Avatar
 
Country: UK
Location: Warsash
Occupation: Sunseeker Sales @ Swanwick
Interests: Making things go fast....
Boat name: Top Gun
Boat make: Sunseeker Hawk 27
Engines: 2x Volvo Penta 5.7 V8s
Cruising area: South Coast

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Warsash
Posts: 220
Offshore Shock Mitigating Seating

I've been doing quite a lot of research into shock mitigating seating for the P28 due to my bad back.

To be honest there doesn't seem to be a lot of choice out there but my favourite seems to be the Shockwave brand from Canada. (I believe this is what is fitted in Swipes)

http://www.shockwaveseats.com/index....d=9&Itemid=517

This can be combined with a seat from PPI in the states which has built in multi layer shock mitigating foam and the added benefit of wrap around leg bolsters which hold you in place when airbourne. This is what Martin used on RB08 and said they were good but not enough on their own. (need some kind of suspension seat frame as well)

http://www.ppi-fl.com/index.htm

The Shockwave base is around £1,200 ex shipping and I'm guessing around the same for the seat so it ain't a cheap exercise when you potentially need 3 units!

Weight is an issue but strength more important. At this sort of money I can't afford to keep a spare in the support truck so it's got to be bulletproof.

Other option is the jockey type seating from Ullman - harder to find space in the cockpit and crazy money - think someone told me they are around 6k a seat!

That said if it allows me to go racing then I'm prepared to save up and buy the best.

Before I head off down a particular path are there other options that people recommend?

There is enough depth in our cockpit to potentially do away with the front seats and fashion a double stand up bolster arrangement but not sure whether this is considered better or worse for the back on long distance?

I appreciate that nothing is perfect and I'm still going to get a pounding but anything to help is only a good thing.

Thanks in advance.

James
__________________

pugracer285 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2011, 11:41 PM   #2
Too many projects.....
 
pugracer285's Avatar
 
Country: UK
Location: Warsash
Occupation: Sunseeker Sales @ Swanwick
Interests: Making things go fast....
Boat name: Top Gun
Boat make: Sunseeker Hawk 27
Engines: 2x Volvo Penta 5.7 V8s
Cruising area: South Coast

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Warsash
Posts: 220
129 views and no comments!

Anyone got any experience - good or bad on these?

Your views would be really appreciated as I'm relying on these as a solution to us going racing.

Thanks
James
__________________

pugracer285 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2011, 09:51 AM   #3
Simeon Penn
 
Trailer Bloke's Avatar
 
Country: UK
Location: Southampton
Occupation: Doctor
Engines: Honda 150
Cruising area: Solent

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Southampton
Posts: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by pugracer285 View Post
129 views and no comments!

Anyone got any experience - good or bad on these?

Your views would be really appreciated as I'm relying on these as a solution to us going racing.

Thanks
James
James

We retrofitted mitigator from PPi to the seats in our experience boats it cost around £100 per base

Obviously it is not as good as a full suspension seat however it makes a real difference and has stopped me this year getting a sore back/pelvis

I have some mitigator as well as modified seat bases in my garage if you want to have a look (Im about a mile from you!)

PPI will just sell it to you it in raw form and you can then get your seat bases remade. We used Mitigator, HD (blue) foam and then memory foam on top. Very comfortable!
__________________
Yes my pants are on fire
Trailer Bloke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2011, 12:33 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
2-XS-IF's Avatar
 
Country: UK
Boat name: swipewipes.co.uk
Engines: Steyr-Motors

Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 235
Shockwave

It has to be Shockwave over 3 years of racing no bad back and no broken unit, but I would not mount it to the floor alone. Standard Cobra seats are also used with the unit on the Swipes boat.

A bit of video seat action from this years C-T-C:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=185166701559631
2-XS-IF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2011, 12:55 PM   #5
Registered User
 
Country: Netherlands
Boat make: 20ft lenght of boat
Engines: 150 Bee-fff VTEC
Cruising area: South West

Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 42
What about.....

Steering and throttle stays fixed.

Do you quickly get used.
Can imagine foot on throttle gets bumpy
Also bumpy, hand on throttle
Bokito is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2011, 01:49 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
2-XS-IF's Avatar
 
Country: UK
Boat name: swipewipes.co.uk
Engines: Steyr-Motors

Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 235
The throttles are fixed to Jon's seat so they also move up and down, foot throttle no. As for the fixed wheel, you really do not notice the movement when driving the boat.
2-XS-IF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2011, 01:45 AM   #7
Too many projects.....
 
pugracer285's Avatar
 
Country: UK
Location: Warsash
Occupation: Sunseeker Sales @ Swanwick
Interests: Making things go fast....
Boat name: Top Gun
Boat make: Sunseeker Hawk 27
Engines: 2x Volvo Penta 5.7 V8s
Cruising area: South Coast

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Warsash
Posts: 220
Hi all,

Thanks for your invaluable feedback.

I have narrowed it down to either the Shockwaves or Scotseats http://www.scotboatseats.co.uk/ which are made here in the UK. (they do a bucket seat to go with the suspension unit as opposed to a jockey seat) Either option would be combined with PPI seat foam (by chance Scot are the PPI UK importers)

The Scot guys have offered to let me try their suspension design in anger as there are quite a few local boats using this setup and can also design a custom seat to match it (with a kind of semi wrap-over thigh bolster to hold you in place in a big sea) The seat travel is however only 6" as opposed to 8" on the Shockwave setup.

Price seems about the same but I'm struggling to find somewhere to try out the Shockwaves before making a final choice....trip to Canada would be nice but a bit beyond budget!

With regard to other controls I'm thinking of doing away with the foot throttle and mounting a set of hand throttles onto an armrest module which moves up and down with the seat. (along with the tabs/motor trim controls) Fixed steering doesn't worry me so much and the suspension movement is pretty much vertical. (fore n aft movement is only 25mm)

James
pugracer285 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2011, 09:15 AM   #8
Registered User
 
larby's Avatar
 
Country: Guernsey
Occupation: Engineering
Boat make: None, boo!
Engines: Turbines mainly!
Cruising area: The inside of my workshop!

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,644
Foot throttle needen't be a problem so long as it's mounted in the correct location so that the movement of your leg doesn't result it pressing on it too much.
I'm designing suspension units for the revenger with 6" of travel which are very simple and move back about 1" for every 3" they go down. This allows my foot to stay in the same place rather than moving back and forth.

Combined with this, we developed our foot throttles to be hinged 2" up the pedal, directly under the ball of your ankle. This allows you to brace your leg against the pedal as you would with a footrest and then use just the movemnent of your foot to throttle, the way it should be, resulting in no throttle spikes when going over big seas.

If you're planning to drive and throttle by yourself in a 28 at race speeds, I can't imagine hand throttles would be a good idea, you'll be wanting both hands firmly on the wheel! Whilst it's a much smaller boat at 25ft, I couldn't imagine driving the revenger with sticks. (though all I can do is imagine driving it at the mo!! )

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to flog our stuff here, just trying to help

James
__________________
facebook.com/jlinnovationgsy

Facebook.com/turbinebike

The true test of a man is how he treats someone of absolutely no use to him.
larby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-11-2011, 01:54 AM   #9
Too many projects.....
 
pugracer285's Avatar
 
Country: UK
Location: Warsash
Occupation: Sunseeker Sales @ Swanwick
Interests: Making things go fast....
Boat name: Top Gun
Boat make: Sunseeker Hawk 27
Engines: 2x Volvo Penta 5.7 V8s
Cruising area: South Coast

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Warsash
Posts: 220
Hi James,

Thanks for your input.

My twin ram steering is pretty heavy, you can run the boat at full chat and it will run quite happily without any hands on the steering wheel - even when wave jumping in big seas. Having said that it's still easy enough to make small single handed inputs as needed. I think it will be ok to keep one hand on the throttles and one on the wheel - which is how I generally drive it now with one hand on the trim controls. (years of driving the rally car single handed with the other sat on the sequential shifter also makes it second nature - my instructor always used to complain at me not using both hands on the wheel!)

My experiences of foot throttles are that they're great in a small 16-21 footer where you sit in a reclined position but in the 28 where you sit much more upright (like driving a tractor) it's quite hard to moderate the exact power needed in large seas. I've also found that both in this and in smaller boats, when on extended passaged of say over an hour at a time, I start to get a bit of leg cramp. (that might just be me but still it's not something that I fancy on a 200 mile + course)

In a perfect world I'd like to run a dual setup to give either option but struggling to see how you can run a mechanism which doesn't require you to operate both systems at the same time. ie. when pushing the hand throttle you would also be fighting the friction of the foot throttle with all the extra cabling/double springs etc. Something like a morse changover control that we used to fit on larger boats (before edc shifting hit the market) could be a solution (effectively isolating the control you don't need) but it's something else to go wrong and additional weight to carry. If you have something in mind with your design to get around this then I'm all ears.

The other option is to stick the Mrs behind the wheel and I'll sit in the nav seat and do the throttles/trim/nav from there...hmmn.
pugracer285 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-11-2011, 08:00 PM   #10
Registered User
 
larby's Avatar
 
Country: Guernsey
Occupation: Engineering
Boat make: None, boo!
Engines: Turbines mainly!
Cruising area: The inside of my workshop!

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,644
It's actually very simple to do dual controls with them isolated from each other, especially with merc engines, and I'd be more than happy to discuss a system with you. It's on the list of things to offer for the future after the pickup a few people want but I'm too stacked out to start doing production runs of them at the moment so haven't really mentioned it!
I do see what you mean about foot throttles at that angle though, seems the answer is seperate throttleman to me! I think you'll be suprised how much you'll need to hold on to that wheel when racing!

James
__________________
facebook.com/jlinnovationgsy

Facebook.com/turbinebike

The true test of a man is how he treats someone of absolutely no use to him.
larby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-11-2011, 08:13 PM   #11
Registered User
 
Country: Netherlands
Boat make: 20ft lenght of boat
Engines: 150 Bee-fff VTEC
Cruising area: South West

Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 42
Hi guys,

Thanks explaining all you did about controls versus the motion seats.

We are cruising inland, longer trips, on the limit.

So of my interest, me being a tech and pounding my back

The Shockwave looking very simple on construction less parts and therefore reliable.

The Scotboatseat, high tech type and so looking great, however lots of parts.

The vertical travel should be taken well by both.

Being firmly thrown sideways in my seat more then often, horizontal side impacts also should be considered, this energy not absorped through the suspension, will stress the mechanics of the seat base the hard way.

Not distributed by the thousend, slow evolution and so time will learn.
Bokito is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2011, 09:26 PM   #12
Registered User
 
Country: uk
Location: devon
Occupation: costruction
Interests: power boats
Boat name: smokin aces
Boat make: x cat
Engines: mercs
Cruising area: lyme bay

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: devon
Posts: 388
Dont know to much about the shock seats but what i do know is the 28 is a great boat , i loved mine awesome bit of kit, what you will need to sort is a good offshore mount for your engines and have the gearboxes sorted and the props as the engines will give up long before the boat and you , i went through 3 sets of mounts a few gearboxes and prop hubs too, the damage seems to happen in short sharp chop not big swells.
chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-11-2011, 02:28 PM   #13
Too many projects.....
 
pugracer285's Avatar
 
Country: UK
Location: Warsash
Occupation: Sunseeker Sales @ Swanwick
Interests: Making things go fast....
Boat name: Top Gun
Boat make: Sunseeker Hawk 27
Engines: 2x Volvo Penta 5.7 V8s
Cruising area: South Coast

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Warsash
Posts: 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bokito View Post
Hi guys,

Being firmly thrown sideways in my seat more then often, horizontal side impacts also should be considered, this energy not absorped through the suspension, will stress the mechanics of the seat base the hard way.
Interestingly the Scot suspension jockey seat setup has some additional damping to try and counteract these sideways impacts but they can't/don't offer it if you go with the bucket seat design.
pugracer285 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-11-2011, 05:08 AM   #14
living the dream
 
DAREDEVIL's Avatar
 
Country: Fl. USA
Location: Where the sun never dies
Occupation: Life Artist
Interests: BOAT RACING
Boat name: i call her baby
Boat make: Aero-tek
Engines: a lot of horses
Cruising area: WW

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Where the sun never dies
Posts: 453
a friend of mine ..here in the US has a SVL 30 single engine raceboat... HE HAS GLASS BONES..dont know how u call that, that beeing said .. he got a shock seat from fountain ( RF POWERBOATS ) and he said its like a cadilac now.. no more problems.. no matter which water conditions !
__________________
Not as bad as you think i am, just different !
DAREDEVIL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-11-2011, 03:47 PM   #15
Registered User
 
JonathanEAA's Avatar
 
Country: UK/Thailand
Location: London/Bangkok
Boat make: Phantom 21
Engines: Mercury 260
Cruising area: South Coast UK/Thailand

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: London/Bangkok
Posts: 167
Send a message via Skype™ to JonathanEAA
I wouldn't know If being like a Cadillac is good or bad having never been in one or ever seeing one to my notice, is a Cadillac supposed to be as good as bentley?
JonathanEAA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-11-2011, 05:18 PM   #16
Registered User
 
Country: UK

Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,231
Lol, Cadilac! Think Robin reliant with low tyre pressures all round!
Jon Holmes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-11-2011, 09:01 PM   #17
Registered User
 
glen76's Avatar
 
Country: england
Location: southampton
Occupation: engineer
Interests: lots
Boat make: scorpion 8.1
Engines: 250HO
Cruising area: solent

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: southampton
Posts: 1,338
didnt some of the RB crew fit truck seats, KAB bases maybe?
glen76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-11-2011, 07:08 PM   #18
Registered User
 
Tony Davis's Avatar
 
Country: Job Centre
Location: In a box
Occupation: Chaos's gofer
Interests: Skiving
Boat make: Spectre 30
Engines: 2 x Promax 225
Cruising area: In the bath

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: In a box
Posts: 5,201
Yeh, the Hunton had them, doubled up for each seat coz they're porkers, and Warlord has them.
__________________
Chaos for Moderator.
Tony Davis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-11-2011, 07:22 PM   #19
The Doc
 
Captain Chaos's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,266
they've been ever so effective in Gaylord........... took the harshness right out of that bump when the jockey wheel slipped on the trailer!
Captain Chaos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-11-2011, 07:35 PM   #20
Registered User
 
Tony Davis's Avatar
 
Country: Job Centre
Location: In a box
Occupation: Chaos's gofer
Interests: Skiving
Boat make: Spectre 30
Engines: 2 x Promax 225
Cruising area: In the bath

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: In a box
Posts: 5,201
I pogo'd on them a couple of times, whenever the sex pistols were played on the radio!
__________________

__________________
Chaos for Moderator.
Tony Davis is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×