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20-01-2008, 01:08 PM
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#1
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Registered User
Country: netherlands
Location: uithoorn
Occupation: crane driver
Interests: everthing what s fast
Boat make: p21,32 hustler
Engines: 408 v8 bravo 1x
Cruising area: ijsselmeer
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: uithoorn
Posts: 298
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phantom 21 inboard
hello,
I am new here but have found a lot of info about p21.
I have bought a p 21 hull here in holland ather selling my warrior 20 whit 2.5 efi and want a fast inboard.
so I found a "new"hull what was living together whit a few horses in the grass,but never rigged.
unfortunaly I think it s a se edition (can't find a id ) and afther I take a ook of the stringers there are not really good laminated stringers so have take out all the wood and fiberglass on the insite and make a new start.
I have bought a corvette engine very and gonna build this to a marine version and attach this to a bravo 1X drive ratio 1:50
Now I am looking for the best setup on the drive height and the best place of the fuel tank .
so if any one have some info or idears I am all ears !!
thank you
Armand
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20-01-2008, 01:16 PM
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#2
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Registered User
Country: Job Centre
Location: In a box
Occupation: Chaos's gofer
Interests: Skiving
Boat make: Spectre 30
Engines: 2 x Promax 225
Cruising area: In the bath
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: In a box
Posts: 5,201
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I can see why I've never bought a Phantom, they aren't built very well are they?
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Chaos for Moderator.
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20-01-2008, 01:23 PM
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#3
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numbskull
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
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First things first.
That transom looks very thin in the pics, a standard one would have been between 2.5 and 3 inches thick. For a Bravo instalation, you'll need the overall thickness to be 2 inches (52mm) for the transom assembly to go in correctly.
That setup will be pretty stern heavy for it's narrow (5 feet chine beam) design, so I think I would be inclined to have my fuel tank quite a way forward.
The motor will also want to stick out of the deck quite a bit and going high with the drive height will of course worsen this, mebbe a IMCO shortie lower unit would help this, if you can locate one.
Don't forget also that this motor being high, will make for a very top heavy centre of gravity!
The P21 is an outboard boat really.
__________________
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"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
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20-01-2008, 01:24 PM
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#4
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numbskull
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Davis
I can see why I've never bought a Phantom
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That's a lie Davis!
1986???
But yes, Steve appears to taken his eye off the ball with this one eh.
Looks like it was 'taken' without splitting hull & deck, nice flange!
__________________
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"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
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20-01-2008, 01:41 PM
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#5
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Registered User
Country: netherlands
Location: uithoorn
Occupation: crane driver
Interests: everthing what s fast
Boat make: p21,32 hustler
Engines: 408 v8 bravo 1x
Cruising area: ijsselmeer
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: uithoorn
Posts: 298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Fuller
First things first.
That transom looks very thin in the pics, a standard one would have been between 2.5 and 3 inches thick. For a Bravo instalation, you'll need the overall thickness to be 2 inches (52mm) for the transom assembly to go in correctly.
That setup will be pretty stern heavy for it's narrow (5 feet chine beam) design, so I think I would be inclined to have my fuel tank quite a way forward.
The motor will also want to stick out of the deck quite a bit and going high with the drive height will of course worsen this, mebbe a IMCO shortie drive lower unit would help this, if you can locate one.
Don't forget also that this motor being high, will make for a very top heavy centre of gravity!
The P21 is an outboard boat really.
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youre right the transom had 18mm wood and the fiberglass outside is about 9mm thick but all the wood is out the hull know and I will put everthing new in it would be 52mm when I am done
about the weight that s why I take the corvette engine ,its a all allumunium engine and weight about 180kg complete whit all acc.put the bravo 1 whit and it s about 250kg total drive train and the most of it is in the boat and not after the boat mostly whit a bracket.
about the high engine you could be right ,this week I can pick it up so can do some research on the highed ,the option for a shorty was also in my mind but have to do a lot of investments at this time so if it s not nesaserry I let that wait a little wile
thx armand
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20-01-2008, 01:45 PM
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#6
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numbskull
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
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The alloy V8 will be nice!
how much power does this 'Vette' engine produce? was it easy to find? and........was it expensive?
Also, can you tell if the boat was laminated using Woven cloth, or just Chopped Strand Mat?
__________________
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"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
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20-01-2008, 01:46 PM
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#7
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Registered User
Country: netherlands
Location: uithoorn
Occupation: crane driver
Interests: everthing what s fast
Boat make: p21,32 hustler
Engines: 408 v8 bravo 1x
Cruising area: ijsselmeer
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: uithoorn
Posts: 298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Davis
I can see why I've never bought a Phantom, they aren't built very well are they?
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I know for sure that a real/legal p21 is better build,
but the price was very good so can make some time and money toget it beter than legal!
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20-01-2008, 01:50 PM
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#8
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Registered User
Country: netherlands
Location: uithoorn
Occupation: crane driver
Interests: everthing what s fast
Boat make: p21,32 hustler
Engines: 408 v8 bravo 1x
Cruising area: ijsselmeer
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: uithoorn
Posts: 298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Fuller
The alloy V8 will be nice!
how much power does this 'Vette' engine produce? was it easy to find? and........was it expensive?
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standard 400hp and 400ft of torque
I had some luck found one for $3000k new but most asking arround 6-9k
I have a adress the sell the same engine who produce 367hp and 376tq
for $3500 but that s in australia
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20-01-2008, 01:55 PM
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#9
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numbskull
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bor
so can make some time and money toget it beter than legal!
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Steady now!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Fuller
Also, can you tell if the boat was laminated using Woven cloth, or just Chopped Strand Mat?
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This may be your deciding factor in your 'sweeping statement' above.
__________________
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"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
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20-01-2008, 06:33 PM
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#10
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Registered User
Country: netherlands
Location: uithoorn
Occupation: crane driver
Interests: everthing what s fast
Boat make: p21,32 hustler
Engines: 408 v8 bravo 1x
Cruising area: ijsselmeer
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: uithoorn
Posts: 298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Fuller
Steady now!
This may be your deciding factor in your 'sweeping statement' above.
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hee jon,
just kidding about better than legal but I make it the best I can,but so far as I can see the is it chopped strand mat .
I am planning to do the stringers first whit a thin chopped and then whit a woven mat so they will getting strong.
also was thinking of core cell stringers and floor but d ont have the tools and knowledge about vacuum so forget that option
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20-01-2008, 06:38 PM
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#11
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numbskull
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
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The original would have stringers of Douglas fir, one peice. From transom to forefoot.
If your main laminate is only chopped strand, I think I'd be inclined to overdo the internal structures to help the cause as much as possible, especially with that motor going in it.
Good luck, let us know how you get on.
__________________
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"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
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20-01-2008, 06:49 PM
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#12
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Registered User
Country: netherlands
Location: uithoorn
Occupation: crane driver
Interests: everthing what s fast
Boat make: p21,32 hustler
Engines: 408 v8 bravo 1x
Cruising area: ijsselmeer
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: uithoorn
Posts: 298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Fuller
The original would have stringers of Douglas fir, one peice. From transom to forefoot.
If your main laminate is only chopped strand, I think I'd be inclined to overdo the internal structures to help the cause as much as possible, especially with that motor going in it.
Good luck, let us know how you get on.
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I want to put new stringers in and begin whit smal overlay and every new lay wider and the last one over the total beam of the inside and also want to use some woven mat only beginning whit thin chopped so the curves are good laminated.
the engine I will put a dta ecm on and do some little changes on cam, springs and the intake so it will be close to 500hp (crank)
and then take a look how it will do ,I want to reach 80mph on the speedo.
hope it will work whit this set up ,the second option is to put a supercharger on
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20-01-2008, 07:04 PM
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#13
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Registered User
Country: netherlands
Location: uithoorn
Occupation: crane driver
Interests: everthing what s fast
Boat make: p21,32 hustler
Engines: 408 v8 bravo 1x
Cruising area: ijsselmeer
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: uithoorn
Posts: 298
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[QUOTE=Jon Fuller;124394]The original would have stringers of Douglas fir, one peice. From transom to forefoot.
mine doesn t had real stringers they put a floor on the second step of the floor and the put "the stringer" on this whit some screw s non stainles and then on top of this stringer to the side of the hull a stroke 18mm multi plex and then laminated it from one side to the other whit 4mm chopped mat
so all the wood was sucking water on the bottom side ,this was a very bad builder!!
the hull is very solid and I think about 7-8mm thick so I am putting in new desent stringers and floor then he will hold up this power and speed!
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20-01-2008, 07:26 PM
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#14
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The Doc
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,291
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so do we get to know where it came from? i.e whom the supplier is?
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20-01-2008, 07:42 PM
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#15
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Registered User
Country: netherlands
Location: uithoorn
Occupation: crane driver
Interests: everthing what s fast
Boat make: p21,32 hustler
Engines: 408 v8 bravo 1x
Cruising area: ijsselmeer
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: uithoorn
Posts: 298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Chaos
so do we get to know where it came from? i.e whom the supplier is?
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if I know I would tell you but still d ont know who build this one and had some other people take a look at it but no one know how s ****ed up this one !
when I have news I let you know here
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20-01-2008, 08:01 PM
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#16
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numbskull
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
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wow! all that heavy ply!
How do you intend doing the hull / deck join? it appears to have some of the vertical flange missing, where the deck normally fits over the hull.
__________________
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"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
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20-01-2008, 08:26 PM
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#17
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Registered User
Country: netherlands
Location: uithoorn
Occupation: crane driver
Interests: everthing what s fast
Boat make: p21,32 hustler
Engines: 408 v8 bravo 1x
Cruising area: ijsselmeer
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: uithoorn
Posts: 298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Fuller
wow! all that heavy ply!
How do you intend doing the hull / deck join? it appears to have some of the vertical flange missing, where the deck normally fits over the hull.
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Yep, youre right he WAS very heavy I want to use a little thinner ply and laminated on both sides so it never can suck water.
they have made a litlle flair on the hull and put the deck whit the flair on it whit epoxy and laminated it in the inside whit chopped mat we never saw it this way I ll attach a photo look at the red circle
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20-01-2008, 08:49 PM
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,891
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That transom looks about the right thickness for a rowing boat - or might just handle a 2hp food mixer.
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20-01-2008, 10:14 PM
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#19
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: South West
Boat make: Cyclone/ Cyclone/Rinker
Engines: Merc 2.5 efi's/300XS/5.0 v8
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 592
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Fooking hell, wish you the best of luck, hope the deck don't come off at 80
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21-01-2008, 08:18 AM
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#20
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Registered User
Location: Belgium
Interests: Boating
Boat make: Hydrostream HST
Engines: Merc 2.5 200
Cruising area: The Schelde
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Belgium
Posts: 468
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I would just fibreglass the top to the bottom from the inside.
You could also do it like Bernico does. Without a rubrail and glass it also from the outside. Looks very nice and is strong
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