POP! goes the gearbox...

[daren]

I would like your thoughts and views as to what went wrong with my stbd CLE gearbox.

It was with the local mercury dealer/engineer with an unknown tuning/ignition problem on the 2.5 efi engine.

They put the boat in the water and started the engine and bang went the gearbox, just like that. They said - "We just started it, it was in neutral and we didn't put in gear whilst running, honest we didn't".

I'm no gearbox expert but looks like the bearing on the prop shaft forward of the drive shaft or more likely the forward gear set has broken apart and smashed thru the casing.


Q. What I want to know is does this forward gear set rotate when the gearbox is in neautral ? if not how can it break.

Or does this bearing/gear only spin when in gear and can I then assume that this sort of damage happens when the gearing is forced into forward gear whilst the engine is running? (around 1500 rmp at idle).

This gearbox has run recently and was faultless, oil checked after every outing, never low, never any water inside, never put in gear whilst running.

[gazza]

Sorry to here this Daren,

Would have thought the Clutch slides the forward gearset backwards to bring into mesh with the driving pinion gear like an normal box.
My guess is a shock load into drive as you suspect.
I would drive the case home and agree when they took the job on, at this moment in time the gear boxes where complete and ok then on returning the boat to you it has a hole in one box, must be a claim in there somewhere.

What I would do is now the box is fecked take it apart and measure where the forward gear sits in neutral and in gear then measure the outside of the casing to the hole, this may help to prove where the gear was when it took off.

Put yourself in their place if you wanted to try and get out of the costly repair what would you say.

Hope you get a resolve.


Cheers
gaZ

[Techteam]

The pinion and forward/reverse gears are constantly in mesh whilst running even in neutral, it's the clutch dog on the prop shaft that slides to give forward or reverse gear. Without inspection it's difficult to give a reason. It's possible you will never know. Do you have a foot throttle or just the control box lever?

[baj666]

this is where a data logging ecu would be handy

[Techteam]

The ecu does actually datalog in a limited capacity but only till the ignition is turned off.

[daren]

Foot throttle

Originally Posted by Techteam

The pinion and forward/reverse gears are constantly in mesh whilst running even in neutral, it's the clutch dog on the prop shaft that slides to give forward or reverse gear. Without inspection it's difficult to give a reason. It's possible you will never know. Do you have a foot throttle or just the control box lever?

[Techteam]

I have known even experienced people having a little difficulty with foot throttle and gearshift shall we say "synchronisation". The worst case was an engine that had been put in gear at over 3000 rpm with a bang so big there was nothing left of the bullet and below. I'm not suggesting this happened in your case but it is a possibility. If it wasn't running right I have seen some mechanics try and throw it in gear at higher rpm in order to try and get it to go.

[Hydrostream]

I had a gearbox that slammed into gear while warming up the engine once! Clutch must have been hovering and just bit, what a bang!

Amazed it didn't do any damage though!

[daren]

Thanks for that. I think that is exactly what happened.

That gearbox was running fine the day before I took it to them, if it was going to go wrong I think it would have gone the day before when it was under load at 6000rpm not in neautral and idling like they say.

Originally Posted by Techteam

I have known even experienced people having a little difficulty with foot throttle and gearshift shall we say "synchronisation". The worst case was an engine that had been put in gear at over 3000 rpm with a bang so big there was nothing left of the bullet and below. I'm not suggesting this happened in your case but it is a possibility. If it wasn't running right I have seen some mechanics try and throw it in gear at higher rpm in order to try and get it to go.

[the rat]

Originally Posted by Hydrostream

I had a gearbox that slammed into gear while warming up the engine once! Clutch must have been hovering and just bit, what a bang!

Amazed it didn't do any damage though!

better to turn engine off between changes,mine have lasted years this way

[Hydrostream]

Originally Posted by the rat

better to turn engine off between changes,mine have lasted years this way

I do, I was no where near the controls, engine was idling at 2000 rpm warming up and Bang!
Cant figure it out, but there you go!

[motorvator]

They don't call you lucky for nothing mate.

When you say the local engineer, how local?

I assume you mean our friendly park and ride chappies and not the blonde self employed idiot that has resurfaced. I noticed him down there the other day giving a mastercraft some of his tender loving care, surprised the poor engine stayed in the boat and didn't just unbolt it self and commit hari kari over the side.

I did wonder if he was working for them??????????

[daren]

Twas the friendly park and ride chappies at E C Leisurecraft.

They denied ever changing gear whilst engine was running until they realised that they did not have it in writing from me that they were not to change gear whilst the engine was running.

Then they freely admited that they had been changing gear whilst running and reving the engine in a test tank and say it is not their fault the gearbox went bang.


Who's the blonde haired chap you talkin' 'bout?

Originally Posted by motorvator

They don't call you lucky for nothing mate.

When you say the local engineer, how local?

I assume you mean our friendly park and ride chappies and not the blonde self employed idiot that has resurfaced. I noticed him down there the other day giving a mastercraft some of his tender loving care, surprised the poor engine stayed in the boat and didn't just unbolt it self and commit hari kari over the side.

I did wonder if he was working for them??????????

[motorvator]

Originally Posted by daren

Twas the friendly park and ride chappies at E C Leisurecraft.

They denied ever changing gear whilst engine was running until they realised that they did not have it in writing from me that they were not to change gear whilst the engine was running.

Then they freely admited that they had been changing gear whilst running and reving the engine in a test tank and say it is not their fault the gearbox went bang.


Who's the blonde haired chap you talkin' 'bout?

ECL are going to struggle with that one though are n't they. The gearbox should be well capable of shifting gears at tickover, unless of course you're using a non bushed prop, without bashing a gear through the box.

So that says they were either shifting at high revs or didn't notice the non bushed prop. Either way down to them. So what are they doing about it?

I'll send you Doug Ashleys number too so you can get a proper engineers take on your problems. I know he's norfolk now but you still won't find a better engineer and he'll come to you.

I'll ping you a pm on the blonde chap.

[daren]

Originally Posted by motorvator

So that says they were either shifting at high revs or didn't notice the non bushed prop. Either way down to them. So what are they doing about it?

Nothing.

They reluctantly waived the costs incurred by them to trace the fault on the engine, purchase of new voltage regulator and some fuel injection parts fitting etc, max £400 all in.

I took the boat back because i want to use it whilst we still have some reasonable weather and before I go overseas when i might put the boat up for sale.
So I havent got the time to argue the toss with them and/or take it further to get a replacement gearbox fitted at their cost which may or may not happen.

Unless of course you know a lawyer that has a different view on this...

[motorvator]

Originally Posted by daren

Nothing.

They reluctantly waived the costs incurred by them to trace the fault on the engine, purchase of new voltage regulator and some fuel injection parts fitting etc, max £400 all in.

I took the boat back because i want to use it whilst we still have some reasonable weather and before I go overseas when i might put the boat up for sale.
So I havent got the time to argue the toss with them and/or take it further to get a replacement gearbox fitted at their cost which may or may not happen.

Unless of course you know a lawyer that has a different view on this...

I'm confussssed then, so you've got it back cause you want to use but it has a gaping hole in the box. Did you just fill it with chewing gum?

Like you I'm not really into sueing people but once bitten twice shy. Have you wound Taz up yet after the PM?

[Wayne Kerr]

Jezarse Daren, don't let it pass-by mate.
There is a whole host of 'free legal advise' on the interweb.
Get the wheels in motion, else your'll leave the door ajar for some other poor fekker!

[larby]

You've got a calmer temper than me, that's for sure!! Surely you could at least get them for lying to you?
It's great over here, there's no slander law, so if someone p*sses you off, you just shout it from the rooftops!!

Sorry i can't be any more help,

James

[Techteam]

Whatever happened to the friendly resident board solicitor ?

[daren]

exactly, you dont appreciate things until they're gone...

Originally Posted by Techteam

Whatever happened to the friendly resident board solicitor ?