Boatmad.com


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 29-03-2006, 04:32 PM   #41
Senior Member
 
Country: netherlands
Location: Mijdrecht/holland
Occupation: truck repair
Interests: fast boats/porches
Boat name: bernico cat
Boat make: bernico 26 cat 2x 2,5,s
Engines: merc,s 2,5 EFI,s
Cruising area: ijselmeer

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mijdrecht/holland
Posts: 382
The difference is pulling or pushing ,is the thickness of the rod .
the rod is +- 20% of the piston diameter .
so I think you may say that it is 20 % stronger ,or weaker by the same pressure.
The reason you see the side mount rams always mounted at the right side from the drive ,is that normally every drive /engine is turning the prop RH ,clockwise.
That way you have the piston side with the most surface to push against the oil,to fight the paddle wheel force.
LH or counterclockwise lowers should run the ram on the left side off course.

sterling
__________________

sterling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2006, 04:42 PM   #42
hello
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,739
What I meant when I was responding to Jons statement about the other end of the drag link is that if the drag link is what I think it is (the link bar that attaches the ram to the tiller arm?) then the seastar rams doesnt have one. So the bolt at the other end is not an issue as it doesn't exist on seastar.
__________________

JamesM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2006, 04:50 PM   #43
hello
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,739
Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to say that Seastar Pro is better or even as good as the Latham and Marine Machine side ram setups I'm just saying that in my opinion with an ARP tiller bolt and the correct maintainance shedule its perfectly adequate for the typical sub 300hp 20ish foot 80ish mph boat.

I'm not trying to stir it up or anything but the Seastar Pro helm is 1500psi and thats 50% more than a Capilano
JamesM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2006, 05:27 PM   #44
Traveling
 
Country: UK
Location: Alderholt
Occupation: Aerospace
Boat name: T/T D2S
Boat make: Midas 27' Cat, Argo 16 Cat. Avon Rib Thingy
Engines: Merc 280-ROS -JSRE,65Xs, 75 Stinger, Yam 60
Cruising area: Any Seedy Bar

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Alderholt
Posts: 4,225
I agree, If Merc make it that way then it can be used that way.
As a very sweeping statement I see other issues as
A "THE" Bolt (cond)
B Hydraulic lines that tend to be forgotten about
C Helm maint
D C&M of the system inc fluid quality
__________________
It is impossible to lick your elbow.

Team25Racing.com

At least 75% of people who read this will try to lick their elbow!
BluFin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2006, 07:14 PM   #45
Gav
Registered User
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,724
Send a message via Skype™ to Gav
so how many failiures has seatar pro had then?
Gav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2006, 07:22 PM   #46
Registered User
 
Burty's Avatar
 
Country: UK
Location: Weston Super Mare
Occupation: Electrical Engineer

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Weston Super Mare
Posts: 6,351
Send a message via AIM to Burty
Quote:
Originally posted by Gav
so how many failiures has seatar pro had then?
Its not the steering that fails but the bolt that attaches the ram to the tiller arm
Dunno how many have failed but you read about it on S and F but they are all doing over the one er
Burty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2006, 07:27 PM   #47
Registered User
 
Tony Davis's Avatar
 
Country: Job Centre
Location: In a box
Occupation: Chaos's gofer
Interests: Skiving
Boat make: Spectre 30
Engines: 2 x Promax 225
Cruising area: In the bath

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: In a box
Posts: 5,201
I really don't think you need to have a failure to know that there are better alternatives out there!

For the money, Seastar is superb, and in the right application, almost failproof, but if I was building a quicken, I'd be fitting a decent sidemount system! It really isn't that much more money in the great scheme of things.
__________________
Chaos for Moderator.
Tony Davis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2006, 07:33 PM   #48
Registered User
 
roofer's Avatar
 
Location: GOLDEN MILE
Boat name: LILY THE PINK AND TERMINATOR 11
Boat make: PHANTOM 21 AND 20
Engines: 2.5 EFI X 2

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: GOLDEN MILE
Posts: 2,475
A mate of hutchy's had one fail, I think he said the casting broke, boat was a 24 ring with twin xr2's, it nearly killed him .
__________________
PLEASE DON'T STEAL...THE GOVERNMENT DON'T LIKE THE COMPETITION
roofer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2006, 07:35 PM   #49
Registered User
 
Tony Davis's Avatar
 
Country: Job Centre
Location: In a box
Occupation: Chaos's gofer
Interests: Skiving
Boat make: Spectre 30
Engines: 2 x Promax 225
Cruising area: In the bath

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: In a box
Posts: 5,201
Was that a red and white one, with bobs exhaust reliefs?
__________________
Chaos for Moderator.
Tony Davis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2006, 07:37 PM   #50
Registered User
 
roofer's Avatar
 
Location: GOLDEN MILE
Boat name: LILY THE PINK AND TERMINATOR 11
Boat make: PHANTOM 21 AND 20
Engines: 2.5 EFI X 2

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: GOLDEN MILE
Posts: 2,475
Quote:
Originally posted by Tony Davis
Was that a red and white one, with bobs exhaust reliefs?
No, a pink one.
__________________
PLEASE DON'T STEAL...THE GOVERNMENT DON'T LIKE THE COMPETITION
roofer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2006, 07:38 PM   #51
Registered User
 
Tony Davis's Avatar
 
Country: Job Centre
Location: In a box
Occupation: Chaos's gofer
Interests: Skiving
Boat make: Spectre 30
Engines: 2 x Promax 225
Cruising area: In the bath

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: In a box
Posts: 5,201
I know that one, think it used to live in Newcastle!
__________________
Chaos for Moderator.
Tony Davis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2006, 07:40 PM   #52
Registered User
 
Country: uk
Location: dorset
Interests: wasting money on boats
Boat name: aquilla .
Boat make: Superhawk 40. Ring 21E. Seadoo gtx. Windy Khamsin
Engines: Kad 300s. 300xs Dbr .d6 370 230 4tec
Cruising area: corfu

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: dorset
Posts: 570
For the money, Seastar is superb, and in the right application, almost failproof, but if I was building a quicken, I'd be fitting a decent sidemount system! It really isn't that much more money in the great scheme of things. [/B][/QUOTE]


WISE WORDS
Rockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2006, 07:41 PM   #53
hello
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,739
Did a bit of research and this is what I came up with:
The tensile strength for ARP’s bolts is 160,000 lbs/in2 (square inches) and its shear strength is 95,000 lbs/in2. According to some chap on S and F the tensile strength for 304 stainless bolts is 70,000 lbs/in2. Apparently the ultimate shear strength of a fastener is typically about 60% of its ultimate tensile strength so for a 304 grade bolt I guess its about 42,000 lbs/in2

So:


Using a 0.375-inch (3/8) diameter ARP bolt gives you the following shear capability:

A = Cross-sectional area of the fastener size (since bolt bodies/shanks have circular cross-sections, use area of a circle) = Pi x r2 where R (radius) = 0.375/2 = 0.1875, therefore A = Pi x (0.1875)2 = 0.1104 in2

Capability in shear for a 3/8 ARP bolt = 95,000 lbs/in2 x 0.1104 in2 = 10488 lbs


Using the a 0.625-inch (5/8) diameter 304 stainless bolt gives you the following shear capability:

A = Pi x r2 where R (radius) = 0.625/2 = 0.3125, therefore A = Pi x (0.3125)2 = 0.3068 in2

Capability in shear for a 5/8 304 stainless bolt = 42,000 lbs/in2 x 0.3068 in2 = 12886 lbs


The above information/calculations came from
here. I just substituted the numbers for the different sizes and tensile strengths. The final figures won't be exact as I used major diameters (I didn't know minor diameters) plus my/their calculations could be complete bollox

I know on that site the figures it gives for the ARP fastner don't actually say that its the stainless one but the info I found on S and F about the stainless bolt quoted it at 170,000 lbs/in2 tensile strength so I guess it either is the one or is of similar strength to the one mentioned here.

Also found this statement on the above site regarding the brittleness of the bolts:

"I’ve also heard the argument that grade 8’s are more brittle than grade 5’s and that’s why you shouldn’t use them. Well, first you need to understand what the term “brittle” really means. Brittleness in bolts is defined as failure at stresses apparently below the strength of the bolt material with little or no evidence of plastic deformation. Typically, fasteners are not brittle below 180 ksi ultimate tensile strength. Grade 5’s have an ultimate tensile strength of 120 ksi and a grade 8 fastener has an ultimate tensile strength of 150 ksi. This is why brittle is a relative term. Nearly all fasteners are considered ductile except some made from PH 15-6 Mo, 17-4 PH and 17-7 PH."

Make of it what you will!!!
JamesM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2006, 07:44 PM   #54
hello
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,739
Quote:
Originally posted by Burty
Its not the steering that fails but the bolt that attaches the ram to the tiller arm
Dunno how many have failed but you read about it on S and F but they are all doing over the one er
Seastar supply the tiller bolt buts its just a plain nothing special stainless item, get an ARP replcement from mercury!!!

The following are all ARP steering bolts (all the same material, just different lengths)

Mercury #
10-849838 = 1.25"
10-875273-138 = 1.38"
10-875273-150 = 1.50"
10-875273-162 = 1.62"

Seastar pro 3/8's, 1-1/4 NF Bolt.
JamesM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2006, 07:46 PM   #55
Registered User
 
Tony Davis's Avatar
 
Country: Job Centre
Location: In a box
Occupation: Chaos's gofer
Interests: Skiving
Boat make: Spectre 30
Engines: 2 x Promax 225
Cruising area: In the bath

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: In a box
Posts: 5,201
Quote:
Originally posted by Rockey

WISE WORDS
Especially when your spending someone elses money!
__________________
Chaos for Moderator.
Tony Davis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2006, 07:48 PM   #56
hello
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,739
Quote:
Originally posted by Tony Davis
if I was building a quicken, I'd be fitting a decent sidemount system! It really isn't that much more money in the great scheme of things.
What do you consider a quicken?
JamesM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2006, 07:50 PM   #57
hello
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,739
Quote:
Originally posted by Burty
Dunno how many have failed but you read about it on S and F but they are all doing over the one er
You don't exactly read about it alot though do you!!!
JamesM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2006, 07:57 PM   #58
Registered User
 
Tony Davis's Avatar
 
Country: Job Centre
Location: In a box
Occupation: Chaos's gofer
Interests: Skiving
Boat make: Spectre 30
Engines: 2 x Promax 225
Cruising area: In the bath

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: In a box
Posts: 5,201
Quote:
Originally posted by Johnny Boat Dude
What do you consider a quicken?
All depends on the size/speed etc of boat, but anything that's in excess of the recommendations of the Seastar spec is a pretty good starting point.

Out of interest, when we were building the Honda Boats, we fitted as standard Hynautic front mount steering systems. The only failure we had was with a boat whose owner had gone for a seastar system!
__________________
Chaos for Moderator.
Tony Davis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2006, 07:58 PM   #59
hello
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,739
what part failed?
JamesM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2006, 07:58 PM   #60
Gav
Registered User
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,724
Send a message via Skype™ to Gav
Quote:
Originally posted by Tony Davis
. The only failure we had was with a boat whose owner had gone for a seastar system!

oh jeez i'm brimming with confidence now nobba!
__________________

Gav is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×