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Old 01-10-2016, 12:49 PM   #1
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transom trouble

hello all new to all this so forgive me any cock ups. the wood in the transom of my 170 bayliner outboard is shot. been looking at tutorials and reading all of which have been American up until I found boat mad. have stripped off outboard it looks like an easy repair would be to remove said wood and do a liquid poured transom board does anyone have any info for against pit falls etc about products suppliers methods. many thanks
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Old 01-10-2016, 04:56 PM   #2
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transoms

look into "Trespa",,its the stuff that worktops jigs are made out of,,,ive not used it in a transom rebuild,but use it all the time in kitchens/bathrooms,its solid resin board,with the strenght of steel,,,if you can get away with over-boarding your transom,and a backplate,,id be happy to stick a decent sized engine on that stuff,,but i dont know how bad your transom has gone.
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Old 02-10-2016, 11:14 AM   #3
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hi thanks for reply the wood is rotted away so has to come right out but ive been looking on American tutorials and the remove wood and top cap on transom and then pour into the space liquid material but they are saying this is not suitable if transom doesn't extend to both corners of boat which mine doesn't transom on mine of two skins only goes prob 4 6 inches past where engine mounts ????
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Old 02-10-2016, 11:27 AM   #4
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I think most people who make a living out of grp would advise against liquid transom repairs. Reason which is often stated is you can't clean inside a deep crevasse to ensure a good bond. It's also extremely expensive in comparison. That said I repaired my transom last year and I am paranoid about water intrusion and if I had done a liquid transom I wouldn't have to fret about it.

Do you have access to the rear/inside? Any pictures? Have you done any fibreglassing, if so do you prefer polyester or epoxy? If you haven't. Poly is cheaper and in some ways easier, epoxy costs more, is harder to get a smoother finish but because its stickiness is far far superior to wood and old laminates it really is an ideal "novice" choice.

Seacast seems to be the preferred liquid transom. I think it is polyester resin with lumps of milled fibreglass in it. My transom was ruined by stringers being water logged. If I had used seacast I don't think I would have discovered that and done such a good job, and left waterlogged areas.

I copied This from a yank site that I initially used as my guide when I was gonna do it in polyester.
"Build it like the original and it will last you another 25 years. Cut two layers of 3/4" plywood. Exterior AC works fine. Put a layer of 3/4oz mat on the transom soaked in polyester resin and set the first layer of plywood on it. You need to screw and or clamp it tight. Let it set overnight and then put a layer of mat soaked in polyester and screw the second layer of plywood with 1 1/4" galvanized drywall screws. Put about three layers of 4" wide mat on the edges and two layers over the rest. Drill and install a new drain and you are done."

My epoxy way was to mix epoxy with milled fibres and Cabosil, glued the shaped ply together and let it set over night. Then next day I fitted it into boat with the Same cabosil epoxy goo mix, combed like tile adhesive. I tapered all the edges of ply when I shaped it except for top surface to make smooth run offs with glass. (No sharp corners). Screwed and fitted in place and added 4 layers of 450 bi axial to tab it to the hull. Then 4 layers over wood. I covered it in peel ply and when it was cured I added another 2 layers to centre section and side tabbing. Happy to cover in more detail. If required.
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Old 04-10-2016, 10:21 PM   #5
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thanks for reply glen think I am going epoxy ply root as cant find any uk poured product only usa and as I need to remove one skin either inner or outer to repair damage from motor under water strike seems to be uneconomic to then do poured job many thanks dave boatpain
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Old 04-10-2016, 10:27 PM   #6
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thanks

ps what was cabasil product you mentioned glen thanks daveboatpain
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Old 07-10-2016, 07:06 PM   #7
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ps what was cabasil product you mentioned glen thanks daveboatpain
Cabo silk is also called silica. It's a thickening agent and also very strong. Mix it with resins if you need to make fillets in corners, fill gapsor to stop it from running. Sands like concrete so best not leave too much surplus lying around

Cab-O-Sil (fumed silica)

westsystemcom1.site.mobi West fillers are branded and more money


https://youtu.be/GITtvAp20pg

To bond the wood to the inner skin you would probably go for something that when thickened will not sag or run but would squeeze so between ketchup and peanut butter then comb it on with a tiling comb. Once you start mixing your own fillers it amazes you what you can do. I typically keep cabosil, microfibres which are milled left over grp and micro balloons which are really soft and smooth for sanding and top fairing.

If you get some pictures, it might help with understanding. Ps I forgot, it's best to coat the wood in un thickened epoxy before bonding in place. Paint it on like paint, give it half hour or so to tack. It stops the wood sucking all the moisture out of the thickened epoxy and creating a poor bond
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Old 07-10-2016, 07:12 PM   #8
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This guy par on this forum is a legend. He doesn't suffer fools so best do some research before piping up lol. This is a really good transom thread which may be similar to you due to the central wood section transom repair opinions - Boat Design Forums
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Old 09-10-2016, 02:09 PM   #9
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glen many thanks pars site great help will try to get some pictures put up but novice at computer stuff going away for a week may get time to digest some of info I read lol thanks again dave / boatpain
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Old 16-10-2016, 05:54 PM   #10
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back to thinking about job is there any advantage to creating larger ie wider thicker transom board than standard I don't know mechanical physics but do know in some cases heavier thicker etc doesn't always equate to strength yours or anyones opinions suggestions greatly appreciated thanks boat pain dave
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Old 17-10-2016, 03:07 PM   #11
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back to thinking about job is there any advantage to creating larger ie wider thicker transom board than standard I don't know mechanical physics but do know in some cases heavier thicker etc doesn't always equate to strength yours or anyones opinions suggestions greatly appreciated thanks boat pain dave
HI Dave

As a minimum you need to match the wood thickness and size as is already. If going from inside you also need to match the fibreglass skin thickness. Anything extra will be a bonus in terms of strength. In my mind the only complication you may have by making the wood bigger is the tabbing. This is the glass that joins the new transom to the shell of the boat. It needs to overlap off of the wood and onto existing grp by maybe 4-6" in several staggered layers (in epoxy, biggest bit first, so 6" overlap then get progressively smaller. if doing three layers for tabbing, next one would overlap at maybe 4" and last at 2". If you then have to glass round corners because your wood is bigger it may make it slightly harder to get right than off of a straight panel. IN my case I did just that My boat only had timber in middle section, but it was actually easier to run off onto side of hull, and bottom of hull to give me that extra strength and fixing to solid boat, so I made the wood full width. I went 6-8" forward on side and 12" on hull bottom to be sure.

There are some complicated formulas for tabbing 12:1 ratio but 4-6" would probably suffice in epoxy and most suppliers sell a 6" grp bi axial tape which is lovely and neat for tabbing.


Don't go too thick, or the outboard may not fit. Depends also if you have a well and your access.
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Old 18-10-2016, 09:43 PM   #12
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Hello glen.thanks for great info as usual.have grandson here to help, so going to have a bash at uploading pictures, to show where I am at.and to tell you what I am thinking. See if you agree or have other ideas. Looking now at possibly first glassing both the inside and outside of the outter panel then glassing in tabbing etc. Transom board. And finally replacing motor well. I do have a question on the motor well. The piece at the very top where the top motor bolts go is hold where bolts pulled through. And cracked also the top cap that goes over the transom has a few cracks. Do you have an opinion on either cutting these off and making new or grind and sand and glass from outside and inside while I have access to do so?
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Old 18-10-2016, 09:55 PM   #13
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The pictures of Dave boat pain transom

Hi mate excuse if this does not work
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Old 18-10-2016, 10:02 PM   #14
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Transom

What have you done to that transom you have gone totally the wrong way about it from what I can see you never cut the actual part of the boat out you only take the wood out unless you're doing something which I've never seen before But what you have done is completely weakened the boat I have done lots of transoms over the years and this is not the way you do it please correct me if I'm wrong
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Old 18-10-2016, 10:05 PM   #15
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More pictures of the boat

Couldn't upload the lot in one go don't know if that's how it is or whether it's the way we did it talk soon thanks
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Old 18-10-2016, 10:11 PM   #16
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Transom

Here is a picture when I did my bout this is what it should look like
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Old 18-10-2016, 10:13 PM   #17
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Transom

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Old 18-10-2016, 10:17 PM   #18
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Transom

Then you should cut your wood to fit like this Then a layer of customer once you have resin the boards then two layers of Matt between each board Then as many layers as you like over the last board minimum of 4 layers of 300 Matt Hope this helps
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Old 18-10-2016, 10:31 PM   #19
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The reason for removal of what you see was due to motor having under water strike tearing the inner and outter skins and breaking transom timber both marine surveyors that came to inspect and estimate for insurance quotation were both talking doing the repair this way the motor well is not attached to transom and is just a top cap I have timber braces I place further up hull and there are loads of tutorials on Internet that show far more structure cut way than on mine my stingers all intact just uprights that go from stringer to transom removed one damaged one was mush I might be looking at this completely wrong but it looks to me that I can make the whole thing a lot stronger than it was when I took it apart the general laminating reinforcing etc was pretty sparse to say the least but all help advice would be gratefully received many thanks Dave boatpain
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Old 18-10-2016, 10:49 PM   #20
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Looking at your pictures I can't see huge difference other than you have the great fortune of flat transom and your outer panel was intact unless I am missing something in your pictures cheers Dave boatpain
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