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Old 27-09-2007, 06:21 PM   #1
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Country: engalnd
Location: south west
Interests: ski racing
Boat name: Jack'd up, hellraiser
Boat make: Bernico 19 ET, ring 16
Engines: merc 135, merc 175, yam 90
Cruising area: Plymouth

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xr2 short shaft on a ring 18??

any one done it
is it hard
cutting of transom involved
and is it just plain madness lol???
and can he boat/ transome handle it???
any advise welcome
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Old 27-09-2007, 07:18 PM   #2
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advice for same questions re: a p18 would be much appreciated,
or will a 20" leg suit?
i thought it'd have to be a 15" but freedom seems to have run a 20" o a r18 successfully,
am interested in your mariner freedom but funds will be too short for a couple of months
cheers, maxim
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Old 27-09-2007, 07:58 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
any one done it
is it hard
cutting of transom involved
and is it just plain madness lol???
and can he boat/ transome handle it???
any advise welcome
Mike K knows of a P19 running with a short shaft 260, goes like stink!
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Old 27-09-2007, 08:17 PM   #4
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Country: engalnd
Location: south west
Interests: ski racing
Boat name: Jack'd up, hellraiser
Boat make: Bernico 19 ET, ring 16
Engines: merc 135, merc 175, yam 90
Cruising area: Plymouth

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: south west
Posts: 1,170
well you never know it might be around for a couple of months yet max
it does go very well
my only problem being, i have a lifter, and nothing in the bow
goes well on the flat but any other conditions and you start to see the sky an awful lot
hence ill prolly put a bow tank in
but, any ideas about transom well depth ect
the builder who is a frequent member on this site would probobly have the best knowlage of this
any help would be greatl;y apreciated
and max, a 20" can soon become a 15" if you jack it up enough lol
but from what im informed, 15z have better centre of gravity
and helps to tame chine walkin, my main reason lol
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Old 27-09-2007, 09:26 PM   #5
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Country: England
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Interests: Boat, Landy, and other toys :)
Boat name: Mad Max/Master Fiddler
Boat make: Phantom 18/Fletcher Bravo
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Cruising area: Solent/IOW

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yeah come to think of it my bow's empty too,
the whole COG theory is why I figured it'd have to be a shorty!
after some close inspections this evening i'm gonna be doing a fair bit of transom work before i bolt on too many horses!
scale/cost of work is building again
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Old 27-09-2007, 09:39 PM   #6
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Max a P18 and all other Phantoms were designed for 20" mids as the 15" didn't arrive until very late 90's Phantoms can be adapted to accept a 15" mid by cutting approx 3" out of the transom but you will have to be careful when trimming up. If you have side ram steering and the flexy trim hoses you can get away with 2"
Ross (Pup Balls) cleverly managed not to cut anything out of his transom however he has the side ram steering and a lifter!

Chris, If your ring is similar to the Phantoms then you will be the same but as i said to you earlier you need to measure the height of the transom and depth of the well before you know for sure.
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Old 27-09-2007, 09:44 PM   #7
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Boat name: Mad Max/Master Fiddler
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cheers, there's a badly fitted wooden plug in the top of my transom, got a feeling leeway added it to make the boat an ideal plug!
just had a look and the old cut-out is approx 3"!!
this means i should be able to pull out the piece, grind it back and re-glass and have myself an adapted transom for a 15" v6!
this would give me a lower COG, therefore better handling and the small amount of increased power by using a short shaft?? right?
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Old 27-09-2007, 09:48 PM   #8
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Country: engalnd
Location: south west
Interests: ski racing
Boat name: Jack'd up, hellraiser
Boat make: Bernico 19 ET, ring 16
Engines: merc 135, merc 175, yam 90
Cruising area: Plymouth

Join Date: Jun 2006
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in theory yes
thats my main reason for opting for a 15" mid
by the way, u got any 15" engines in mind??? lol
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Old 27-09-2007, 09:52 PM   #9
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Country: England
Location: Cowes, Isle of Wight
Occupation: Marine engineer/electrician
Interests: Boat, Landy, and other toys :)
Boat name: Mad Max/Master Fiddler
Boat make: Phantom 18/Fletcher Bravo
Engines: Merc XR2
Cruising area: Solent/IOW

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Cowes, Isle of Wight
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haven't seen any yet!!
my idea was to get an old p.head thats been used for pleasure or somethin, not a tip-top race engine (i'm going for slightly less power and cheaper than you!) then get together an alien cowl, mid section and offshore box.
of course your engine would provide the p.head and cowl...
also wondered how u found the vitara as a first car and a tow vehicle (guessed it's ur first due to your age!),
cheers, max
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Old 27-09-2007, 10:41 PM   #10
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short shaft isn't really any lighter but yes should help handleing as your big heavy pendulm is 5" lower However going rates for 15" mids with boxes hoses and trim pumps are around £1500 with cle and 2k with sporty so they aint cheap!!
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Old 27-09-2007, 10:43 PM   #11
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Country: England
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Boat name: Mad Max/Master Fiddler
Boat make: Phantom 18/Fletcher Bravo
Engines: Merc XR2
Cruising area: Solent/IOW

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ooh...
what are the affecting differences?
want a 1.87 ratio,
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Old 27-09-2007, 10:48 PM   #12
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sportys are newer and stronger with a double top bearing they are supposed to be better at higher speeds too but reading scream and fly they say ultimately the older 2 hole cle is the fastest but blow out occurs at a lower speed. (dont worry about that though as its like 1 mph difference and the blowout is at like 80mph) the sportys look better though as they are aluminium in colour rather than painted black
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Old 27-09-2007, 11:50 PM   #13
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Shame no one wants my one with an xr2 powerhead on top of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burty View Post
short shaft isn't really any lighter but yes should help handleing as your big heavy pendulm is 5" lower However going rates for 15" mids with boxes hoses and trim pumps are around £1500 with cle and 2k with sporty so they aint cheap!!
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Old 28-09-2007, 12:14 AM   #14
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Country: engalnd
Location: south west
Interests: ski racing
Boat name: Jack'd up, hellraiser
Boat make: Bernico 19 ET, ring 16
Engines: merc 135, merc 175, yam 90
Cruising area: Plymouth

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: south west
Posts: 1,170
well someones considering your compete motor
if it will fit
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Old 28-09-2007, 12:18 AM   #15
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Country: engalnd
Location: south west
Interests: ski racing
Boat name: Jack'd up, hellraiser
Boat make: Bernico 19 ET, ring 16
Engines: merc 135, merc 175, yam 90
Cruising area: Plymouth

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: south west
Posts: 1,170
oh, and
ive had
an escort cossie replica
3 106's, 1 gti
punto turbo
bmw 320i
escort xr3i
a pink 2L corsa haha
and now have a mazda 2.5L mx3 and a vitara
wen i bought it, due to the wide whees, it handeled like a boat
but you get used to it, an for a 1.6 tows real well
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Old 28-09-2007, 06:07 PM   #16
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Country: England
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Interests: Boat, Landy, and other toys :)
Boat name: Mad Max/Master Fiddler
Boat make: Phantom 18/Fletcher Bravo
Engines: Merc XR2
Cruising area: Solent/IOW

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i see!

looks like it'll be a sporty then! the scenario now is whether i go for 20 or 15",

the boat was designed for a 20" and these seem cheaper and easier to come by, however i would have to replace and strengthen the plug in my transom.
a 15" is more expensive and rare but i already have the cut-out and handling would be better!
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Old 29-09-2007, 02:11 PM   #17
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I think you'd benefit from shortshaft,

Whats the transom height?(from the bottom of the v to the top of the transom)
I think you need about 26" to run a shortshaft, on the transom and level
out p20 transom height was 26" but with a transom plate is more 26" 1/4 with a 4.25 inch setback gorilla jackplate, and a half inch spacer from T H marine in the states, then filed the small lug/bump things off the front of the clamp bracket(the bit that is the engine side of the trim assembly)

Finished result is a shortshaft 300 promax, on a 7" virtical lift Gorilla jackplate which can go as low as 3 1/4 inch below (which is more than enough) and 3 3/4 inch above
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Old 29-09-2007, 07:47 PM   #18
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Country: England
Location: Cowes, Isle of Wight
Occupation: Marine engineer/electrician
Interests: Boat, Landy, and other toys :)
Boat name: Mad Max/Master Fiddler
Boat make: Phantom 18/Fletcher Bravo
Engines: Merc XR2
Cruising area: Solent/IOW

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Cowes, Isle of Wight
Posts: 935
will measure up tomorrow am, off out for the night now.
will also measure up against dad's short shaft to see where it would sit if i were to remove this crappy plug.
cheers for all the help so far,
Max
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Old 01-10-2007, 07:57 PM   #19
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Max,
I know of a 15" mid long trim ram with flexy hoses and trim pump
1.87:1 RH sportsmaster gearbox 4 hours run time since Nick Barsch rebuild
£2000
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