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Old 18-07-2010, 11:20 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by hunton69 View Post
Just been on the BBC national news this morning.

The video of her first accident was what they kept showing.

Hits the national news for all the wrong reasons but thats what the channels are after i guess
Wrong reasons? What is this forums 'asphyxiation' with the idea that accidents in a dangerous sport are the wrong messages? I just don't get it. I watched the report yesterday on Clipper and they covered the broken leg and recovery of a skipper by the Japanese rescue services, as stated elsewhere here, Webber's crash is all over the place. Why would anyone want to do anything for a buzz if it wasn't tinged with danger?

I bet you a fiver that if you speak to Sir Robin, the applications for the next Clipper and hits to the website would have spiked after that report.

Nobody wants to see anybody harmed but there has to be a psychological balance of risk versus challenge or nobody at all would give a damn about powerboat racing, buy a stink boat and sit in the marina on Sundays

Next Sunday a generous couple have paid £850 to DebRA to have a trip in my Honda boat...and why? Because the dinner auction would have sold the excitement. Excitement no doubt based on an anticipation of risk?

Shelley has been a great ambassador for racing and she must make her own choice based on personal experiences. She has done more than most people here it is true - perhaps she could head up a new safety team?

But with this sport what is missing is a proper technical direction which we experience heavily in Xcat now but is definitely not clear to anyone buying a licence to race in UK.

Once again the opportunity is sat in front of our leaders but is not pounced upon or properly endorsed and that is probably down to money.

So let accidents have free media and use your influence to get people in high places to form a proper technical development team and promote the continued safety development.

As with "education, education, education" There should be "safety, safety, safety" - with the mission to continually reduce risks.

Not saying it isn't happening, but if it is, it is not clearly communicated to us outside of race management.
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Old 18-07-2010, 11:55 AM   #22
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Safety Example 1

Who was at fault here?

Tony in Decomania or Matteo in Florian?

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Old 18-07-2010, 02:32 PM   #23
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That's a tough call! I would imagine the guys ahead could not see Florian in their mirrors as the boat was poss out too far to starboard to be seen. The Florian guys backed right off just before impact so it's not like they didn't try to avoid the accident. A racing accident - sh*t happens.
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Old 18-07-2010, 09:32 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scream-it.com View Post
Who was at fault here?

Tony in Decomania or Matteo in Florian?

Florian !! He made no effort to attempt the turn !! Although would like to see from different angles !!
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Old 18-07-2010, 10:43 PM   #25
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Florian !! He made no effort to attempt the turn !! Although would like to see from different angles !!
OK. If this was your race what would the decision be? Who would be at fault under the rules?
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Old 18-07-2010, 11:07 PM   #26
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Still getting my head around the overtaking rules but last year it would be Florian !!
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Old 19-07-2010, 12:48 AM   #27
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Quote:
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OK. If this was your race what would the decision be? Who would be at fault under the rules?
Overtaker must keep clear of the overtaken.

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Old 19-07-2010, 06:47 AM   #28
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IMHO Florian put themselves in an inescapable position, never mind the rules. Commonsense and collision regs come first.
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Old 19-07-2010, 08:45 AM   #29
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Assuming there is an overlap rule it depends on whether he got his nose inside early enough in the turn to establish the overlap - Technically.

But

He was coming from so far back and the closing speed was so great he should have backed off or gone to the outside as neither boat could have judged that, so Florian took a risk thinking he could squeeze through and caused an accident IMHO!
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Old 19-07-2010, 09:03 AM   #30
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I know naff all about racing, and only a little about common sense, but it seems obvious to me who was at fault.

Maybe the question should be "who thinks the lead boat was at fault and why"
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Old 19-07-2010, 09:45 AM   #31
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Well this is the PB1 2010 way !! Perhaps Scream it can upload the Xcat Rule !!

Unfortunately, according to 1st Paragraph, Coll Regs only apply whilst Not Racing or Officially Practicing !!
Attached Files
File Type: doc 2010 racing rules overtaking.doc (29.0 KB, 201 views)
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Old 19-07-2010, 10:06 AM   #32
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What I understand is that the tosser in the the behind boat that had established an overlap, we know that because he drove into the front boat, had right of way even though he made no attempt to turn.

Is that a correct understanding in which case the boat that was in front should be accused of dangerous driving and taking liberties by being in front!
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Old 19-07-2010, 10:22 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitten View Post
IMHO Florian put themselves in an inescapable position, never mind the rules. Commonsense and collision regs come first.
Ah but what is the point of rules, if we say never mind them? Should the rules be fit for purpose and control people's actions? After all they are designed to keep people safe are they not?

Bearing in mind this is a very common type of collision in circuit racing.

Who would be at fault here under PB1?
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Old 19-07-2010, 10:26 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCRDA View Post
Well this is the PB1 2010 way !! Perhaps Scream it can upload the Xcat Rule !!

Unfortunately, according to 1st Paragraph, Coll Regs only apply whilst Not Racing or Officially Practicing !!
OK I see. So then Decomania would have been at fault in UK....?
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Old 19-07-2010, 10:41 AM   #35
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[QUOTE=OCRDA;185104]Well this is the PB1 2010 way !! Perhaps Scream it can upload the Xcat Rule !!

Here it is...

29.08. RIGHT OF WAY

Overtaking - When two race boats are on the same course or
approximately the same course on a straight, and one boat is
passing or attempting to pass another boat, the passing boat
shall keep clear of the boat being passed, and in passing, shall
allow at least 2 boat-lengths of clear water between its
transom and the bow of the boat being passed, before altering its
helm so as to assume the same or essentially the same line or
lane as that of the overtaken boat.

Passing in a Turn (Formerly “Overlap”) - If two or more boats
are approaching a turn mark side by side, the boat on the inside of
the turn has priority and the outer boat must keep clear.
Any overtaking boat must still give way to the overtaken boat
as per overtaking above.
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Old 19-07-2010, 10:53 AM   #36
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Dear Rich !!

As a "steering wheel attendant" in one of them Xcats, Who do you think is at fault under the Xcat rules ??
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Old 19-07-2010, 11:11 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCRDA View Post
Dear Rich !!

As a "steering wheel attendant" in one of them Xcats, Who do you think is at fault under the Xcat rules ??
Florian. He was lapping Decomania and would easily have hopped outside of him.

The thing is a technical director could direct a team to analyse such things and certainly develop a rule that (as an analytical racer that I am) in UK seems to be the "right to T-Bone". This 2010 UK rule I'm afraid to say is simply dangerous.

Like I said to you before: Has anyone ever analaysed properly why a boat hooks- especially when entering a curving wake on a corner in a V hull boat

Now if we are to improve safety these are the questions that need answering and trainers / clubs need to make crews aware of.

I have watched P1 and guess what - it happens there. Honda...well Gavin chucked Nathan out in Lowestoft on my wake as I did to Nikki in Liverpool on theirs. And I suspect Rob in OCR too.

So who leads technical (and therefore safety) direction in the UK. I have a licence and I'm personally not at all clear who to ask and yet I can pick up the phone or e-mail Patrick or Paul at the WPPA and get answers.

Perhaps if I or Gavin or Shelley really understood the reason for 'hooking it' then we would be better placed to avoid it. Crews would not be thrown out and people like Nathan just missed by oncoming boats.

Am I making the point clear in this example?
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Old 19-07-2010, 11:38 AM   #38
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Best Wishes for a speedy recovery, Shelley !

Can I add my best wishes to Shelley for a speedy recovery ?

Everyone is shocked by the two accidents so close together.

All the very best, and to Patrick too.

Whatever decision you eventually come to Shelley, everyone will respect it.
You are a real hereoin in all your racing exploits - some would have given up after the V24 accident.

Good luck to you & Trevor.
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Old 19-07-2010, 11:42 AM   #39
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Quote:
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Can I add my best wishes to Shelley for a speedy recovery ?

Everyone is shocked by the two accidents so close together.

All the very best, and to Patrick too.

Whatever decision you eventually come to Shelley, everyone will respect it.
You are a real hereoin in all your racing exploits - some would have given up after the V24 accident.

Good luck to you & Trevor.
Very good point Martin the thread is spreading. Perhaps we should set up a new thread on safety outside of Shelleys. Perhaps Shelley should now be the inspiration for change. But let's continue the debate please on safety and the way it is developed...SEE NEW THREAD
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Old 19-07-2010, 12:05 PM   #40
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Quote:
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Unfortunately, according to 1st Paragraph, Coll Regs only apply whilst Not Racing or Officially Practicing !!
It is the duty of each crew member to ensure that their boat is driven in a manner that does not compromise the safety of themselves, any other competitor or any spectator. Powerboat racing is a non-contact sport and crew members may be penalised if contact occurs. Whilst not racing or participating in official practice sessions, boats are bound by the International Rules for the Prevention of Collision at Sea.

Is the highlighted section above not basis of the col regs?
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