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13-11-2011, 07:42 AM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 186
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1350s
These are selling like hot cakes over here. Every high end boat builder is being asked for them. Nothing else is selling.
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13-11-2011, 08:53 AM
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#2
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Moderator
Country: England
Location: Cornwall.
Occupation: Retired.
Interests: Golf & liquid lunches with friends.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Cornwall.
Posts: 2,303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Bontoft
These are selling like hot cakes over here. Every high end boat builder is being asked for them. Nothing else is selling.
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Apparently they have been passed by the UIM for use in Marathon now, everyone waiting for confirmation from the RYA!!! Proposed by the Marathon Race Committee by the way.
Aren't they very thirsty?
ML.
.
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13-11-2011, 09:58 AM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 186
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Thirsty? At .45 brake spec I make it 83 gallons/hr imperial. They're probably running more fuel to keep em cool. Over 500 gallons for Cowes.
Reminds me, I need to order a box of fuel filters.
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13-11-2011, 03:45 PM
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#4
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Registered User
Country: Sweden
Location: At the coast
Occupation: Instigator
Interests: Offshore racing
Boat name: Two wings to rule em all
Boat make: B23 & V24
Engines: Volvo 2.0 & GXi 5.7
Cruising area: All over Sweden
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: At the coast
Posts: 237
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Why run rich to cool when you have the whole ocean to cool with, is that info confirmed?
Or is it possoble to get info like that, intresting!
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13-11-2011, 05:16 PM
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#5
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Registered User
Country: Guernsey
Occupation: Postie
Interests: Heavy Heavy Metal
Boat name: Slayer II, Slayer, Pen15
Boat make: Phantom 19G-R, Bernico F2 Extreme, Ring 15
Engines: Evinrude 115HO, Yam 90
Cruising area: Channel Islands
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,460
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What kind of price are they going for as a package with the new drive?
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13-11-2011, 05:58 PM
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#6
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Registered User
Country: Sweden
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul E
What kind of price are they going for as a package with the new drive?
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$235.000.....
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13-11-2011, 06:06 PM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAT23
Why run rich to cool when you have the whole ocean to cool with, is that info confirmed?
Or is it possoble to get info like that, intresting!
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Not confirmed but they are going to want to keep combustion temperatures down for longevity
A quick check around and the word is about 120 US gallons/hr. wide open.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul E
What kind of price are they going for as a package with the new drive?
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Full price is over $200K. I am sure there are some deals being made to manufacturers.
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13-11-2011, 06:07 PM
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#8
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Registered User
Country: Guernsey
Occupation: Postie
Interests: Heavy Heavy Metal
Boat name: Slayer II, Slayer, Pen15
Boat make: Phantom 19G-R, Bernico F2 Extreme, Ring 15
Engines: Evinrude 115HO, Yam 90
Cruising area: Channel Islands
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,460
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I'd better only get 2 then...
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14-11-2011, 08:40 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Country: UK
Location: Christchurch, Dorset
Occupation: Marine Engineer-ish
Interests: Boats, Cars.
Boat name: Splash 4
Boat make: Hunton
Engines: Mercruiser 640
Cruising area: Poole, Solent
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Christchurch, Dorset
Posts: 599
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[QUOTE=Mike Bontoft;211703]Not confirmed but they are going to want to keep combustion temperatures down for longevity
A quick check around and the word is about 120 US gallons/hr. wide open.
I recon that you are pretty close there Mike: I did a rough calc based on the consumption of our Ilmors and extrapolated up: For a 300 mile leg, as in the Cowes- Monte, with a 10% safety margin you would need nearly 5,000 litres ! Based on 1000 LPH, for a twin set up at say 70 MPH, gives you nearly 5 hours running time.
That makes an "A" class boat about 10,500 KG or more at the start of a leg and half the weight at the end. Makes hull shape and prop selection interesting!
They would need plenty of torque low down to get it up on the plane.
And they say on their website that they arer 20-30% more economical ...
Any reports yet on their reliability?
As I understand it they will only sell them as a package with the new M8 drive and their hydraulic gearbox?
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14-11-2011, 08:43 AM
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#10
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Registered User
Country: Spain
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,726
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What speeds are they running in that first vid? 170mph??
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14-11-2011, 11:38 PM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennpromo
I recon that you are pretty close there Mike: I did a rough calc based on the consumption of our Ilmors and extrapolated up: For a 300 mile leg, as in the Cowes- Monte, with a 10% safety margin you would need nearly 5,000 litres ! Based on 1000 LPH, for a twin set up at say 70 MPH, gives you nearly 5 hours running time.
That makes an "A" class boat about 10,500 KG or more at the start of a leg and half the weight at the end. Makes hull shape and prop selection interesting!
They would need plenty of torque low down to get it up on the plane.
And they say on their website that they arer 20-30% more economical ...
Any reports yet on their reliability?
As I understand it they will only sell them as a package with the new M8 drive and their hydraulic gearbox?
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According to merc.the torque curve is flat from 2500-5500rpm at 1300ft-lbs. Yes only as a package with their transmission and drives.
Just saw a price of $145,9 for the package.
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlenige
What speeds are they running in that first vid? 170mph??
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Not sure but pretty close, I liked the video, They were on a mission!
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15-11-2011, 10:20 AM
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#12
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numbskull
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennpromo
I recon that you are pretty close there Mike: I did a rough calc based on the consumption of our Ilmors and extrapolated up:
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Bloody Turncoate!
What happened to all that "No No, our Ilmors only use 2 gph at WOT" shit you were splurting out at Coniston?
The only Cinz man speaking any sense in the Campbell room that night was, for once, Eric ' mad-bluenine' Smilie of Wargrave! He'd clearly swallowed a handful of truth / sensible pills and was temporarily ejaculating useful words.
Old Woodentop always runs with the hare & hunts with the hounds!......
120gph per mill sounds bang on to me. You'd be better off with a dozen of those 2gph 725hp Ilmors and two dozen Alpha drives.
Or, the sooner Cinzano gets some nice Perkins 4107's in the boot (no German pun intended) the better...I can highly reccomend the Enfield drive system btw.
I think there may be some confusion round here about the various terms for the definition 'keeping cool' Mike.
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"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
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15-11-2011, 01:25 PM
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#13
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: East Mids
Occupation: MD hydraulic/engineering company
Interests: Fast cars, bikes,quads, boats, going fast...etc
Boat name: Cheetah
Boat make: Hunton XRS37
Engines: Volvo D6 with DPR drives
Cruising area: So'hampton
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: East Mids
Posts: 557
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1350's
Having had a fair bit of experience with turbocharged racecars i found that by short shifting and maximising the use of the flat torque curve, lap times were not affected but fuel consumption was as much as 40% less so my guess would be that if you prop to suit the torque not the maximum rpm and don't run w.o.t. the fuel consumption would be dramatically improved. I am sure they will be running very rich at w.o.t. to keep the valves and piston crowns cool, they also seem to have some issues with the number 8 drives breaking.
Peter
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15-11-2011, 10:05 PM
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#14
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CINZANO 558
Country: Germany
Location: Germany, Düsseldorf
Occupation: Logistics
Interests: occasionaly work, if not out for boating
Boat name: CINZANO, Capriccio I+II and Propina
Boat make: CUV 38race, Sunseeker50 Cruiser, Sailingketch 55
Engines: race: ILmor, Cruise: Volvo D12, sail: Volvo D5
Cruising area: race:England, holiday: Mallorca, sailing: Netherlands
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Germany, Düsseldorf
Posts: 38
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Cinzano gph
Cinzano on CTC 2011 took about 900l
That was after refuelling 850l in Hamble and returning to Drivers with only a little less reading on the gauges after the race.
Peter is right in his predicting of the advantage of turbo engines.
All major mercedes AMG, BMW M, Audi S and RS, Porsche as well as other high performance new cars are on Turbo base just because of the much better fuel efficience at lower output and therefore much better total MPG
So why not have Cinzano running 1350s in 2012?
Will consider it well, maybe its good testing them before we fit them in anything bigger. And we could race A class as Dean or Martin Lai finally.
Maybe good for Coniston 150mph?!
Ok sorry got carried away for a minute, but will give it a longer thought...
Anybody interested in ilmor 725s with 80hours on the clock then?
Swipes with them would sound better and have fun in Coniston, too.
Figure out yourselfes what was German humor and what was fun, but offers for the Ilmors are welcome, consider 44.000pds for both without drives as sensible.
Brgds Markus Hendricks
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16-11-2011, 01:34 AM
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 186
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Source:
Mercury Racing engineering
At 1,200 hp with a typical vee-bottom boat load on the engine, the 1350 quad cam four valve engine (QC4v) will consume about 120 gallons per hour per engine. In a vee, you'll be moving about 110 to 130 mph at 6,200 RPM or so. In a cat, 140-150 mph.
Slow to 4,000 or 4,500 RPM, you'll be cruising about 85-90 mph (vee) 110-120 mph (cat) burning 50-60 gph. Loads, speeds and consumption will vary based on boat weight and hull efficiency, but we've observed 20 to 35% better fuel economy vs screw charger engines of similar power on similar boats.
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16-11-2011, 10:24 AM
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#16
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Senior Member
Country: England
Location: Warsash
Occupation: Boat Designer
Interests: sport
Boat name: Santana
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Warsash
Posts: 1,838
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Hi Mike
I guess you are talking US gallons on these figures? Actually can make quite a difference in the overall fuel loads......
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16-11-2011, 11:04 AM
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 186
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Hi Adam, yes this is US gallons.
Mike Lloyds post on allowing this engine into Marathon, does this mean that the cubic inch limit has been increased for all blown gasoline motors in Marathon class A? Supercharged penalty formula changed
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16-11-2011, 01:36 PM
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#18
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v24 rocks
Country: uk
Location: littlehampton
Boat name: bat out of hell, tooti fruty
Cruising area: LA
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: littlehampton
Posts: 350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Bontoft
Hi Adam, yes this is US gallons.
Mike Lloyds post on allowing this engine into Marathon, does this mean that the cubic inch limit has been increased for all blown gasoline motors in Marathon class A? Supercharged penalty formula changed
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We could put 3 of those babies in Magic for our trip to Monte C
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16-11-2011, 04:58 PM
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#19
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Moderator
Country: England
Location: Cornwall.
Occupation: Retired.
Interests: Golf & liquid lunches with friends.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Cornwall.
Posts: 2,303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Bontoft
Hi Adam, yes this is US gallons.
Mike Lloyds post on allowing this engine into Marathon, does this mean that the cubic inch limit has been increased for all blown gasoline motors in Marathon class A? Supercharged penalty formula changed
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As I understand it, and I am sure that either Peter Dredge or "Wooden Top" - love that name, will correct me if I am wrong but the 1.6 penalty for supercharged engines has been reduced to 1.4 thereby allowing in this engine. I guess that will apply across all classes. It looks as though it does in the Class Classification Table.
ML.
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16-11-2011, 05:35 PM
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#20
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v24 rocks
Country: uk
Location: littlehampton
Boat name: bat out of hell, tooti fruty
Cruising area: LA
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: littlehampton
Posts: 350
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Good news order in the post for 3 of those beauties do not tell Terry
Magic will fly.
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