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Old 16-07-2008, 12:00 PM   #1
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Canopies

Here is my opinion on canopies for longer offshore races with less safety cover:

I have watched with interest the discussions concerning the suitability of "canopy" boats in long distance races. Whilst on one hand the UIM have a clearly defined limit in P1 for non canopy boats, above which they must have a canopy, some events choose to ban canopies completely.

The point I would like to raise is the logic of making the above decisions.

In a non canopy boat the UIM thought it unsafe to exceed 95mph in P1 Evolution class, and they also have looked at making Class III 2 litre boats a "canopy class", certainly the catamarans are capable of quite high speeds and Pete Little demonstrated in Guernsey a couple of years ago the dangers of not having a canopy strong enough. I believe that had his canopy survived intact he would have walked away from a reasonably high speed accident without injury, indeed he and Dave Arthur only suffered minor injuries considering the type of accident. The same can be said of all of the V24 rollover accidents that I am aware of. Where the speed exceeds 70mph the likelihood of serious injury in an open boat rises considerably, and the closeness or otherwise of safety crews will not prevent the actual injuries occurring. However even in Chris Parsonages Class One accident in Plymouth where his boat was comprehensively damaged He and James Shepherd walked away without any serious injury or assistance by rescue people that another competitor could have offered. I believe the only outcome of the above instances is to take a serious look at canopy construction, but even in a canopy failure situation the crews have all survived and extricated themselves without the help of safety crews.

In other words I would rather have an accident offshore without immediate rescue cover in a canopy boat and extricate myself having only suffered getting wet as opposed to the higher likelihood of getting seriously injured in an open boat and needing medical assistance from absent safety crews.

I am not advocating that there is a need for closed course safety crews on an endurance event, but making the point that a canopy boat may actually be more "self sufficient" and indeed considerably safer where there is no immediate safety crew available.


Any comments?
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Old 16-07-2008, 03:43 PM   #2
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Id take my chances

Ive posted on this before, and always wondered why there is such a "nervousness" about canopied boats - they have a much better safety record racing than open boats.

Fact is that you will hurt yourself very badly if you go over without a canopy at anything above 60mph in reality - there is even a very sad example on the media page of this web site from a previous ctc.

What are the P1 evolution boats going to do in CTC? IF the answer is run with the hatch off, doesn't make much difference except you probably get a mouthful of water BEFORE you get to your air.

I've always wondered what the reverse is of the organisers arguement on liablity for not having canopy boats race in certain events, knowing the UIM regulations regarding speed and design, is there not a liability for allowing boats to compete that don't have canopies and can exceed those parameters?

Most accidents in canopy boats Ive heard of have been down to manifold failure , poor bulhead seal and CO in the cockpit - id be more worried about that - wire the CO monitor into the ECU?

Anyway have a solution for Marc & Lance in CTC, take the doors off the V24, and buy + Install 5* 3000GPH bilge pumps - 35 quid each on ebay!
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Old 16-07-2008, 04:15 PM   #3
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So if P1 evo's run without the hatches on, do they still use restraints?
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Old 16-07-2008, 04:33 PM   #4
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It would be handy if powerboats came with a detachable canopy, that way you could have the best of both worlds.
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Old 16-07-2008, 06:30 PM   #5
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Anyway have a solution for Marc & Lance in CTC, take the doors off the V24, and buy + Install 5* 3000GPH bilge pumps - 35 quid each on ebay!
So you have not seen Lance drive then...
Only 5 x 3000GPH bilge pumps would not quite work if he removed the doors.....
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Old 16-07-2008, 06:53 PM   #6
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I am totally with Marc on this one.

Perhaps you need to "stuff" a boat at significant speed, or see a racing friend lose his his life to bring this to the "fore" again.
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Old 16-07-2008, 07:01 PM   #7
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Tricky, thats some picture. Yeah five is not enough.
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Old 16-07-2008, 10:26 PM   #8
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canopy

so whats wrong with a half canopy open at the back like some of the p1s use
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Old 16-07-2008, 10:33 PM   #9
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so whats wrong with a half canopy open at the back like some of the p1s use
there arn't any, wettpunkt do but there not in it anymore. Centaurian yachts are the only ones with a half open canopy, theres is basically a size of a hatch.
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Old 16-07-2008, 10:57 PM   #10
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there arn't any, wettpunkt do but there not in it anymore. Centaurian yachts are the only ones with a half open canopy, theres is basically a size of a hatch.
they ran closed in tunis last race, reason: canopy hatch wasn't finished in the first 3 venues. When they racet in Marseille they even had a roostertail inside, result, no intercom anymore - GPS failure etc... even we could take the canopy lid of in tunis in those hot conditions but we didn't .. ! looks like we going to need airco like honeyparty for the Bahrein race.
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Old 17-07-2008, 01:20 AM   #11
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Having raced with a canopy at well over 100mph I would not go back to no canopy, at any speed.
The question of liability is interesting, I would never like to see it tested, but if the organisers say no canopies allowed and boats race with below UIM safety standards and an injury resulted I think the organisers could have some culpability.
Here in NZ we stick to strict UIM safety standards.
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Old 17-07-2008, 01:22 AM   #12
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The question of liability is interesting, I would never like to see it tested, but if the organisers say no canopies allowed and boats race with below UIM safety standards and an injury resulted I think the organisers could have some culpability..
That was a point I raised. It is actually a very good point!
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Old 17-07-2008, 10:11 AM   #13
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Quote:
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It would be handy if powerboats came with a detachable canopy, that way you could have the best of both worlds.
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Old 17-07-2008, 12:15 PM   #14
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Quote:
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So you have not seen Lance drive then...
Only 5 x 3000GPH bilge pumps would not quite work if he removed the doors.....
Hold up!! that was not me! Martyn driving that one one, mind you i was sat in the other seat probably egging him on as any good nav does. 'Never back off!!'

On a more serious note! Please stop saying leave the doors off on a v24! as marc will completly agree and any one else who knows any thing about racing canopy boats the doors are there for a reason! there part of the structure, leave on and close them!! If god forbid you went over with no doors it would be highly unlikely that you would surface as the impact would render you unconsious! Mike Mantel unfortunatly roll his V24 at about 30mph with the doors open and this broke collar bones, i believe knock out is nav etc! As you can see from marcs pics we have stuffed quite hard and it does lift the doors slightly and that is enough to pin you in your seat!

There is no way i would run a V24 or any other canopy boat without the doors on and closed!

Oh those pumps sound cheap ebay you say!!
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Old 17-07-2008, 01:34 PM   #15
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I think Canape's are over rated,

A bit like oysters and lobster.
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Old 17-07-2008, 01:50 PM   #16
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I think Canape's are over rated,

A bit like oysters and lobster.
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Old 17-07-2008, 01:52 PM   #17
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Hold up!! that was not me! Martyn driving that one one.
The actual picture is V7 - Tom Powell and some girl.



Quote:
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Mike Mantel unfortunatly roll his V24 at about 30mph with the doors open and this broke collar bones, i believe knock out is nav etc!
This was not in a race, this was on a pleasure day out. - he was just pottling around and just on the plane - if he were at full race speed........ Just not worth thinking about
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Old 17-07-2008, 05:27 PM   #18
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On a more serious note! Please stop saying leave the doors off on a v24! as marc will completly agree and any one else who knows any thing about racing canopy boats the doors are there for a reason! there part of the structure, leave on and close them!!

Oh those pumps sound cheap ebay you say!!

Sorry - my ironic sense of humour - doors should stay on - never thought anyone would take me seriously - by the way the postage on those pumps on ebay is a hundred quid each
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