Cats in Marathon Class

[hunton69]

Originally Posted by Jon Fuller

Timewarp Tinterweb??

And i thought its me that drinks this time of night

[Mikko Oikari]

"The Skater catamaran relies on a propeller shaft made of high-performance
alloy and a 4,500-horsepower gas turbine to cleave the waves at 175 miles per hour."

[FLYING FISH]

A couple more spring to mind.Very quick but not sustained to win a lot of races.The Italian was beating everything in it`s class when running and unfortunately the cougar didn`t do enough races,The one it entered was the CT71 in which the weather was horrendous and didn`t get much further than Hurst,which maybe answers the marathon question.
My Cude Toplino was round about 30ft with 1 x 650hp Mercruiser,while Miss Guernsey was 29ft with 1 x 500hp Mercruiser.
With regard to changing rules to suit possible P1 entries,the bandwidth for existing boats in all race series is so big whether in length,weight,power that I think it`s inevitable that in time the Marathon rules would change to keep up with the progress in design.
For a test case, look at OP1,OP11,CI,CII classes.Consider all the various length,weight,power combinations,all within just 4 classes,and see how those classes had to embrace the design changes,and those classes lasted for 30 odd years!
It`s the same old story,you make more classes which despite one`s best efforts never seem to keep the peace,and from then on one is trying to justify the way it is.Even with 4 classes there would be the avalanche of knockers,but at least it would be simple to understand.
Mike is quite right re cat breakdowns putting more unneccesary stress on the organisers,based on past history.Who would swap places with him.Uncle Dekka with all his organisational flare?Stick to the day job methinks.

[Jon Fuller]

Originally Posted by FLYING FISH

With regard to changing rules to suit possible P1 entries,the bandwidth for existing boats in all race series is so big whether in length,weight,power that I think it`s inevitable that in time the Marathon rules would change to keep up with the progress in design.

The theory is, that as the engine rules are based on capacity, not power, as engine development moves forward, and power from a given capacity increases, the rules allow this improvement of the mechanical breed automatically, without the need for changing any ruling.

Hull design (as long as it's a mono) is open, so no need for change there.

Weight, well, I don't think it would be fair, or right to reduce the min weight, once existing boats have been built to suit the higher existing numbers. after all, everyone is in the same boat anyway, so to speak, so what is the problem?

The only thing that could maybe be done would be to allow lower weight, in conjunction with a reduced engine capacity, just so certain boats could take part, as long as they re-engined apropriately, but that's getting dangerously close to a power to weight rule set, which I personally am against, so wouldn't want to start that ball rolling, however embryonic.

Going back to the thread title, I think that we promised the rules would be firm for 4 years. Therefore, they should be!..Simple as that.

If after the 4 years, the series is still popular, and people are still asking for Multi's to be included, that's when a TW-group should look into integrating them in the rules, whether it be to run with the monos 'in class', or to have a separate class for multi's and draw up suitable class rules for them if they decide 'it's time'.
We simply have to stop going back on promises and rules made by the national authority. It reduces respect for the authority, and reduces the competitors inclination towards comiting money to racing projects. To me it seems a no-brainer, but the sport seems to feck itself over, again & again with the same faults. When will we/they learn?

I feel that, with the greatest respect, anyone with a commercial interest in the sport, should be excluded from the group/committee when making such fundimental rule decisions, because those people, like it or not, will vote to suit themselves, even if they kid themselves it's for the common good, their 'vested interest' will still be there on their shoulder telling them how to vote. That would include designers, builders and engine suppliers. I'm not saying those folk shouldn't be consulted, as their knowledge & info is clearly invaluable, but they shouldn't be part of the final decision on fundimental aspects.

Strapping tin hat on now...

[FLYING FISH]

I can understand your comments Jon,but it just makes me wonder how much latitude there is when the power keeps climbing and hopefully the capacity still keeps within the set rule.I still haven`t mastered obtaining even an approximate horsepower when only the capacity is given even when comparing the same engine type.I know there is no direct relationship.
The weight in theory should change with the progress made in stronger yet lighter structures,but as you say,that means adjusting the capacity rule,or does it.
I think overall what I am saying is that all these tweaks are there as more conversation pieces,and to keep the same rules for even 10yrs takes some doing.
With what we have at present there are examples of adjusting the system or not being eligible for a class.
Buzzi Bullett for example.One minute it`s a wildcard,next thing it`s eligible,yet it could have won it`s class overall if meeting the rules with a bit of class consistancy,or Shelley Jory`s boat (same as Hot Lemon) yet runs in a different class for obvious reasons.
Ok ,all this was done years ago in some cases,but it just shows no matter how you try to tinker with the system,there will always be a rogue entry that goes outside the norm,and hence that`s why I favour what has stood for 30yrs,assuming one could be thick skinned enough to weather the brickbats.
Just my view Jon,being as I use the past to judge the future.

[Jon Fuller]

OK, you have a good point, but no changes should happen, until the 'rule freeze' has expired. If in 4 years time, details were changed, that would be acceptable, assuming the changes weren't too large.

I would like to know what the score is with this amendment by the UIM. Is it already 'fact', or a suggestion. lets face it, there are currently no Multihull rules, so how can it be fact just yet? I don't think that change should come until the expiration of the 4 years, by which time, we will know a lot more about the series and the direction it's heading in, as well as the then new crop of available motors & hulls.

[cfun]

Originally Posted by Jon Fuller

I guess what really ticks me off is, Mike had very little support in the early days of the RB08 planning, there were far more people happy to laugh at him as a dreamer.

At that stage, Mike & many others threw their opinions into a hat

Well I say 'Go away and do your own thing.

As an offshore spectator I think what Jon says here is it in a nutshell, and as much as I did enjoy the cats against mono's and know doubt would again if possible they made the call a long time back ... end of

Jon and all the others who put all this in the pot to work with a big mix of money from private people to build/run their boats should be the only people to decided and as it appears it was never really on the cards then that's up to them, as suggested if cats are let loose then someone else should start a series with cats and then perhaps on some big events like the CTC they can all pull together to make it one massive event

just my thoughts as a spectator although who knows one day I may be tempted to dip a toe in the mono pot of racing

[Mike Ring]

Originally Posted by Jon Fuller;

Going back to the thread title, I think that we promised the rules would be firm for 4 years. Therefore, they should be!..Simple as that.

No messing with the rules then for 4 years.

Who can argue with a level playing field ?

I doubt from a builders point of view that any UK company would commit to tooling for a race cat on the grounds of expense and very limited sales to recover costs, so any production cats would come from the USA I guess.

On that note, racing monos whether new or used and refurbed is still an "affordable"way to go racing and within reach of many and will keep the entries high.

Marathon would not be the first class to be killed by big spending power.

Mike

[Jon Fuller]

Originally Posted by Mike Ring

No messing with the rules then for 4 years.

Who can argue with a level playing field ?

Mike

Looks simple dunnit, but sadly, having rather naively handed power over to the UIM, that's a promise that we can no longer make, or keep, as shown by the inclusion of Multihulls by clubs if they so choose.

I'm comfortable that the BPRC in the hands of John Moore and RB2011 in the hands of Dean Gibbs will stick to the rules as written. Beyond that (and including RI2010 'if' it happens), who knows.

[FLYING FISH]

A level playing field? Is that Honda racing?

Let`s get one thing clear,the rulemakers should be repected for the work they have put in to try and regulate a minefield of variables which should not be tampered with for a period of time,and maybe they may end up with it being the best thing since sliced bread.
Nevertheless once any rules have been pronounced it will always be subject of comment.As time moves on all sorts of areas come in for discussion whether cats,trimarans,gas turbines,jet drives etc.
At the time of the RB08 we had lost the CTC as a base line.Imagine if that had been still on in all it`s pomp,all the old classes would have been there and for any marathon race (RB type) you could have built around that framework,not the other way round,by seeing how you could `fit in` any other type of boat into marathon racing.
The other thing that has developed is the safety cover or lack of it,which has added to the equation.So we are always trying to work backwards to a day where we had good safety cover and rules for say the CTC could be adapted for true marathon racing.

[Scream-it.com]

Originally Posted by chris

not looking for a row but what is the problem with cats anyway?

Hi Chris,

I was talking to another Xcat man this week and he reckons the Worlds are in France next year...so why not instead of there being a bun fight we find a way to get an XCAT race here as it would be a short hop for the Italians, French etc.

If we can get shipping etc. Would also be great for CP Racing to show off their new boats - yes that's boats plural!

The little manufacturing plant in sunny Plymouth has been busy!

I do think the guys here are well advanced on their path and fair play to them for organising it.

Perhaps some of us should get together and have a chat with Rory and Co?

[Ben]

Originally Posted by Jon Fuller

What, like an HTM?

Not sure they're any good in the slop

Ben is the man for that question...

Yank Cats Ben??

Originally Posted by Hydrostream

Single inboard cats are usually not really cats at all. They are centre pod or modvp almost style hulls. Usually have a large FLAT centre pod and take a beating in the rough. Great fast boats in calm waters, don't tend to lean in corners as much or porpoise but not rough water boats.

Alan

What he said

[TomLinley]

Originally Posted by Scand

single engine rib and cat

My dad has used this boat a few times and is good friends with the builder and knows him very well, its in europe somewhere and currently running 140ish I believe, but not sure. I can find out at some point.

T

[chris]

jon mike thanks for the replies, can see your points,for me id have just liked to have been able to have done just one of the shorter marathon races just for the fun of doing it not wanting to be in a class or even in a position , just want to be part of it to boost the numbers! need my old boat back !!!!!!
rich many thanks for the reply where are the two new boats going , yes id be up for a trip to france think im a bit slow though!!!!!!more like driving miss daisy! anyway id love to have a look at the cp shed sometime?

[Scream-it.com]

Originally Posted by chris

jon mike thanks for the replies, can see your points,for me id have just liked to have been able to have done just one of the shorter marathon races just for the fun of doing it not wanting to be in a class or even in a position , just want to be part of it to boost the numbers! need my old boat back !!!!!!
rich many thanks for the reply where are the two new boats going , yes id be up for a trip to france think im a bit slow though!!!!!!more like driving miss daisy! anyway id love to have a look at the cp shed sometime?

Sure that can be organised. PM me your phone number and I'll give you a call. We should catch up for a beer/coffee anyway and talk Doug Wrights ;-) But there could be some scope to race next year as a first step to working with the guys here. Ian as you know had number one and the 2nd hull is nearly complete. Saw it Friday. Looks great in white and can't wait to see how Ian does in Dubai. I don't expect to see him in my mirrors though !

[Jon Fuller]

Originally Posted by chris

jon mike thanks for the replies, can see your points,for me id have just liked to have been able to have done just one of the shorter marathon races just for the fun of doing it

I understand, but obviously you can't write serious championship series rules to suit the odd person who fancies doing one race just for the crack. That's where basic races / event licences come in.

[chris]

thanks for the reply jon !to be honest dont think the tanks are big enough anyway!ill do a few basics then see if the v 24s will have me!
rich know what you mean about ian i did have him in my mirrors once was for a few seconds as he lapped us reckon he was doing well over the ton we were doing about 90 and it felt like we were going backwards!

[bigdog v2]

Chris v24 love to have you at TQ and LA but you have to have
£50 to the Ist mark V2 4Rocks

[DAVE]

Originally Posted by bigdog v2

Chris v24 love to have you at TQ and LA but you have to have
£50 to the Ist mark V2 4Rocks

Nice to see some things dont change...

[The Force]

Originally Posted by chris

thanks for the reply jon !to be honest dont think the tanks are big enough anyway!ill do a few basics then see if the v 24s will have me!
rich know what you mean about ian i did have him in my mirrors once was for a few seconds as he lapped us reckon he was doing well over the ton we were doing about 90 and it felt like we were going backwards!

You can put the Brass Monkey, and Cancer research races from the RMYC in your diary for next year, dont know if they will run the needles again?but that had a basic element aswell..... planning to Have Papa Kilo racing there this year - she won't qualify anymore for Xcat - tandem cockpit....