Cowes 2010 update

[hunton69]

Originally Posted by OCRDA

Dont see where all the bad vibes are coming from !! surely this way we can entertain both ends !! the past couple of years might just as well have been the Cowes-Cowes race as there has been very little Torquay about it !! So this year I felt that rather than just go to torquay as marshels and Safety (Yes there are a team of helpers at Tq) then why not have a race ?? so that is what we are doing. The fact that Class 3 & V24 would rather do TQ than Cowes is irrelevant. The Icing on the cake would certainly be a compulsory stop over in Torquay to let Joe Public dribble over some of the boats as they used to. Surely the object of an Anniversary event is to make it as near as possible to the original.
WE ARE DOING THIS TOGETHER as we keep saying its not them & us its just US !!

Even better you guys can splash us a bit of bubbly to celebrate 50 years.

Better still lets all go on the piss in TQ and race back the following day

[Jon Fuller]

As two separate races (there & back) each barely meets the min distance for Marathon. Barry, you ever thought of OCR or Zapcat? they like it short too.

[hunton69]

Originally Posted by Jon Fuller

As two separate races (there & back) each barely meets the min distance for Marathon. Barry, you ever thought of OCR or Zapcat? they like it short too.

I think my boats to big for those classes

[motorvator]

Originally Posted by Jon Fuller

The 'Original' didn't return from Torquay.

Bloody 'ell they're still there? Wouldn't wish that on anyone

[FLYING FISH]

Just the record,when the boats only raced to Torquay in the 60`s,the following day they returned at `RB08` speeds` ie.not full chat ,complete with the wives in some cases.Tramontana II was a good example of that with a boat load of 10 up ,women with headscarves on.It was all very unofficial and relaxed.
What if Torquay does stay alive with racing (there`s more down there than the solent now),is this price to pay for reducing the spectacle of the main event.If it wasn`t for the big boys and people dedicated to retain the CTC in all it`s pomp,UK racing would soon fall from grace.You only have to see `Circuit Racing` to have an example,once the Bristol GP disappeared.I`m loosing count of the number of people saying `I must do the CTC`.Finish it off and what do you aim for.OK,this is a special year,but the past 24hrs has done nothing to encourage a 2011 CTC organiser to keep the race alive,and if it does pack up,well,I know who I`ll be sticking pins ins.

[Jon Fuller]

Cowes has to continue.

As the latest boat type/class to do it is Marathon, and Marathon is supposed to be a minimum 100 nautical (and that's minimum, as in, that's actually a girls race at that distance), a return non stop, is the only way. If you make it a stopover, even the 1 hour as it once was, you don't need a marathon rigged boat to do it. half the fuel load, sprint boats etc, and the principle goes out the window. The guy's who've built, and are building boats to be capable of the extended distances intended in Marathon, will suddenly have a disadvantage to the small sprint boats with limited fuel range etc.
If the other classes allowed to do the race to Torquay & back are given the stopover, fine, but Marathon class boats have to do the full distance nonstop, or it makes a mockery of creating rules to suit the long range boats that now exist, and are being designed and built as we speak.

That's my opinion on it anyway.

[hunton69]

The over night and bubbles was a joke.
However i can't see a problem with a 30 min or hour stop (agreed there not allowed to refuel or fiddle with the boats) this would give the spectators in TQ something to see and feel part of.
By blasting straight past your not involving them in anything apart from using them

Only my view

[Jon Fuller]

Originally Posted by hunton69

By blasting straight past your not involving them in anything apart from using them

'Using them' how exactly?

If they wanna come out and see the boats 'blast past', fine, if they don't, that's also fine. I really don't see how that's using anyone.
It's been discussed at length many times, that Marathon type racing is not a spectator sport, it simply doesn't lend itself to it and everyone has to accept that. We can't alter the Marathon format to 'please' a few spectators that might turn up to watch if it's a nice day. They can queue up to watch the round & round in circles classes. Marathon is selfish from that point of view, end of.

You gonna police the no touching the boats or adding fuel bit? You'll have people slippin off in secret all over the place (complete with all the necessary and 'valid' excuses why), protests will fly, as well as punches.

Marathon is exactly that, it needs to stay with it's roots. if the 'other classes' stop over, fine, maybe allowing that would get higher entry numbers, but if you wanna compete in Marathon, you gotta play the Marathon game, that's how it works. If you don't wanna play that game, enter a class that doesn't impose the distances, or other rule details. Shimples!

Going back to Bobs comment about keeping as close to the original format as possible for the 50th, having spoken to Graham Stevens to check my facts, when the race first became a return event in 1968, there was no stopover. Round the mark and straight home. It stayed like that for some years.

So, the historic 50th CTC should, as Bob says himself, be as close to the original as it can be, including the long range non stop element. Especially as that is the backbone of Marathon class racing and what separates it from the the plethora of other existing disciplines.

[FLYING FISH]

All dogged down Jon.He we go.

As I have said in past posts,the Marathon rules came about at a time when the CTC had disappeared off the calender,and was reinstated by popular demand and a lot of effort,so you had rules to suit true Marathon racing but kept for the CTC,which you could argue should be have been modified to suit say 100m races.Problem is you would be trying to modify rules overdone for 100m races,where it would be easier to mod rules for 100m races to suit true Marathon races,but that`s easy in hindsight,and that to me is the crux of the problem.Start small and modify rather than start big and reduce.
The other thing is what is the difference between a 200nm boat and a 100nm other than the fuel tank size.If you take `Blast Off`the Fountain from the U.S.mickey mouse circuits,what has actually changed to make it into a 200nm Marathon boat,other than tanks.,or possibly ballast.Being old school I still think in terms of CTC 69 boats doing the RB 69 with mods to increase things,rather than find they couldn`t mod RB69 boats for a CTC69.OK they did it non-stop,but the principle was there if they had to stop at Torquay.
For all I know,there could be as many want to stop after 100m as want to carry on non-stop,so I suppose that`s the first thing to establish.Another thing is the wt diff between a 200nm and a 100nm tank would probably be the diff in the number of crew members carried ,so Blast Off should have an advantage over the Team 25 football team carried,but that would be taking the rules to extremes.

OK release the guy ropes.

[Jon Fuller]

Originally Posted by FLYING FISH

The other thing is what is the difference between a 200nm boat and a 100nm other than the fuel tank size.If you take `Blast Off`the Fountain from the U.S.mickey mouse circuits,what has actually changed to make it into a 200nm Marathon boat,
OK release the guy ropes.

To be fair, we don't yet know if 'BLASTOFF' IS a 200nm boat!


See, going a long way aint always that easy.

Dashing round in little circles is peezy, when it breaks, you just step out, paddle over to the edge of the pond, and get out. Perfect for Barry (the bar's never more than a hundred yards away)

[Numb Nuts]

When I last did the ctc it was with the mandatory hour stop, Jim & I took the piss a bit and filled the wet bar with a lovely picnic from tiffins, arrived in Torquay and started chowing down while everybody else were frantacilly refueling. We then got told to go back to cowes by the marshalls as the fuel berth was rammed and to save time so we jumped our slot for the restart.

So on or way back to cowes we were racing the clock not other boats (100 mile time trial???) What I'm saying is we need to go non stop as per the original format. When we got back to cowes the first boat home might not have won they might of just been the first released from Torquay.

Cowes has always been a fav for me even when I was a victim 2 years running of the lesser classes being forgoton at prize giving podiums etc...

Just my view

[Jon Fuller]

Originally Posted by Numb Nuts

when I was a victim 2 years running of the lesser classes being forgoton at prize giving podiums etc...

That has always been my biggest gripe about Cowes. It seems to have been an issue they never quite understood, or even attempted to rectify. Hopefully nowadays, all classes will be considered important to the event, even our lowly Marathon E.

[Jon Fuller]

Originally Posted by FLYING FISH

For all I know,there could be as many want to stop after 100m as want to carry on non-stop,so I suppose that`s the first thing to establish.

Well, let them stop, but not if they want to collect points for the Marathon series.
Cowes is a bit unique, and is clearly a bolt on to the rest of the intended Marathon racing, but if Marathon points are being offered at Cowes, the boats taking part should all have to compete on that level playing field we keep banging on about.

I would say, let those who want to do CTC, but either can't (insufficient range), or simply don't want to go non stop, have the compulsory minimum one hour stop, but they race outside Marathon class. That has to be the simplest way to please most people and maximise entries.

[warbah]

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Why can't you guys work out this is the 50th Aniversary of the Cowes Torquay NOT the ******* Cowes Torquay Cowes................................That 50th is not for another 7 years.

!961 was the first CT and 150 nautical miles !! in the "gingers" tiny brain more than the 100 miles necesary for a "marathon" which the CT or CTC IS NOT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

IT IS AN INTERNATIONAL OFFSHORE EVENT. Marathon is RB/V Mc or L Mc.

That is the tradition as Bob at ORCDA mentioned.

John Moore has the chance here to do what TP and ML couldn't do and that is UNITE ALL.

This race should follow the 61 course and all meet up in Torquay to join AND celebrate this amazing event WITH Class 3/V24 and OCR ..........WHO ARE THE BACK BONE OF THIS WONDERFUL SPORT.

This is a chance to UNITE.
----- Original Message -----

[Jon Fuller]

Tim, why are you not posting in your own name?

I'm not sure a string of vitriol and insults are the best way make a reappearance after months of 'staying away'.

And you need to tame your tongue if you want to partake.

[warbah]

Point 1. Tim b-c hasn't worked for months as you know, and I have had warbah for ages.

Point 2. I do not post any longer for the simple reason that where as BM has many great points and values the way you personally rule over it, be-litteling people running people down enforcing your opinions, passing your opinion on peoples property and beliefs is wrong. Yes, it is YOUR site and for that we are grateful but while allegedly trying to promote the sport your are also ripping it apart.

Point 3. Cowes is the Grand National of Powerboat racing and I feel very protective to an event/sport which I have had the honour of being a very, very tiny part of and the fact that everyone wants to destroy TRADITION and ignore the fact that in these ostere times when we should all be pulling to-gether we are still ripping it apart.

Class 3 has always been, as was Class 2 for a while the poor relation yet they were and are the majority/ back bone, by making Cowes a " Marathon", when it clearly is NOT detracts and eliminates so many boats that would love to take part. This year is the 50th of the Cowes Torquay we should all and ESPECIALLY you JF be working to that end and not for your own agenda.

Alas, the dye has been cast and the race will be the CTC, but I totaly agree with OCRDA and Hunton 69 that here is an opportunity to bring everything to-gether and keep tradition as the race "HAS" to return to Cowes then let the boats "lay over" for an hour before returning, and as you quite rightly stated allow more boats to enter by being able to re-fuel.

Also, it would allow many class 3 boats to enter this very special, and unique mile stone in racing history, I am sure there are many phantoms etc who would be gagging to run to Torquay just to be apart of the 50th.

Point 4. Again you are why I haven't posted in probably a year, your knowledge of the sport is patchy but your knowledge of boats, design building and engeneering is awsum to say the least, just a shame you make the mistake of trying to use this site to bully/ lord it over people.

I hope this is not the last Cowes Event, especially as ML saved it in 08 at the eleventh hour, we should support those organising not constantly attack them, that is where this site falls down.

Last post !!!

[Jon Fuller]

Point 1, if Tim-B-C doesn't work, it's a fault at your end, because at no point has that username been banned, and still isn't.

As for the rest, you're entitled to your opinion, but no one has to come here, they do so of their own free will. And that would appear to include you, even if you don't post very often.

BTW, I see Boatmad is apparently still good enough for you to try and sell stuff on it, somewhat double standards I'd say..

One last thing Tim, after pronouncing me as evil, and not supporting racing, passing opinions and belittling people and their property and apparently having my own agenda (which I don't get at all) what exactly are YOU doing for powerboat racing, except maybe passing judgement and belittling me, as well as working to your own agenda (which appears to be to vent your inner anger at ML and myself because of your fundimentaly flawed and hopelessly optimistic plans for a London - Monte Carlo race that quite frankly would never have got off the ground, but you choose to blame others for the failure of)?...no, absolutely nothing!

[Jon Fuller]

I don't really get your point about cowes, I said, and agree, let there be a stopover for the 'others' inc maybe class 3 if there's interest, but Marathon has to be run as a marathon, if you can't see that, you shouldn't pass comment.

If the yanks come, or there are other historic class boats that want to enter as non marathon, let em, complete with stopover. BUT DON'T F*UCK WITH OUR NEW CLASS. Marathon needs leaving alone, it's hard enough as it is, without people constantly trying to mess with stuff and interfering, usually, by people who aren't even interested in the class.

I'm sure John Moore could come up with a historic class I & II entry for the 50th if the interest was there, but it doesn't mean Marathon must pay the price. I'm also sure that the RYA and it's groups/committee's would support any such special classes for this special event.

[OCRDA]

Originally Posted by Jon Fuller

Point 1, if Tim BC doesn't work, it's a fault at your end, because at no point has that username been banned, and still isn't.

I thought he meant that "He had not worked for months" !!

[FLYING FISH]

It is amusing to see the comparsions for the 50th course.For a start the race hasn`t been run for 50yrs,only by date.We`ve had CT,Cowes Classic in various forms and CTC,plus cancellations.
The only reason this thread has blown up is because unbeknown to the CTC organiser, CIII switched to Torquay.Even on the day this came to light,a course for CIII has been mapped out in the solent,and at the same time others wanted to do a CPC,so the organiser was left with another problem to sort.It was not a case of the organiser leaving things, such that CIII decided to go their own way.
It`s a shame V24 etc can`t support the spectacle at Cowes,when the main man places such importance to prestigous events such as Cowes and the Needles (for which constant ref was made in his documentary a few years back).These races gain that accolade through the top competitors racing in top events.
Torquay has grown up with the event as it is ,without the smaller classes thinking all of a sudden we`ll pitch up and that will retain it`s status,if anything the opposite happens.Drain the spectacle at Cowes and if your not careful the main event is in jeopardy.
When you think in the early days Torquay had the chance to view the boats when they finished,then they get a glimpse of them on a non-stop run,then back to close vieing with a stopover,then no race at all,then back to non stop format,they have had a variety of formats to contend with,and yet I`ve yet to see any strong opinions on any of that from the Torquay end.