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Old 07-06-2005, 11:36 AM   #1
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Cowes and dangerous yachties...

Is anyone official going to do anything about the rag and stick biggots changing tack in front of the race boats at Cowes this year?

In the worst case, just after the fort last year V4 and myself had to take avoiding action Zigging right to avoid a rag boat cutting in front of us with under 50 meters to go, and then having to zag left to avoid another idiot who came from the other side, who then waved and cheared as we almost hit the fekker. We both lost places because of that.

There were several other times this happened!

It appears as if they think it is part of the fun.

Perhaps maintaining the race line, and cutting one in half would teach them a lesson? hmmmmn - No that was done two years ago with no effect.

As far as my understanding of the collision rules go, the 'skipper' of the rag boats can be prosecuted for cutting in front of another boat.

Rule 5 places the requirement on the skipper to maintain the appropriate action for the circumstances. Crossing a racing line, which has been published 2 months in advance in the notice to mariners, would require the skipper to pay additional attention to the risk of a collision.

Rule 8 states that the skipper may not take any action to place his boat into a colision path, and also states that no matter what action the other boat takes ( ie the racer ) the skipper has to take action to avoid a collision.

Rule 9 refers to a 'narrow channel' - more specifically that no other boat can cross the narrow channel if this impedes a boat travelling in the narrow channel. part b says that any boat of less than 20 meters *shall not* impede the passage of a boat which can only safetly navigate in the narrow channel. The race line for the cowes around the island is a defined 'narrow channel' for the race boats.

Rule 18 is what the raq & stick boats always refer to ( even though they proberbly dont know the actual Rule, nor have they read the rule correctly ) " Power gives way to sail " - My arse it does. Rule 18 establishes the order in which a boat needs to give way to another boat. In order, a bowerboat gives way to: vessel not under command, vessel restricted in manoeuvreability, fishing vessel, sailing vessel. But! a Sailing vessel must give way to ( in order ) vessel not under command, vessel restricted in manoeuvreability, fishing vessel.

I would think a powerboat on a demarkated race line, would be considered haveing a restriction in manoeuvreability? This rule clearly states that the more manoeuvreable should give way to the less manoeuvreable. Se Rule 9 and the general rules 'avoiding a collision' rules.
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Old 07-06-2005, 12:04 PM   #2
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Who has defined the race line as a 'narrow channel' and a powerboat that is racing as being "restricted maneoverability"? I would think the rule is more applicable to large ships, but good luck to you if you try to push it.

You might have more luck using 'vessel not under command rule' though

And I suspect the phrase 'rag and stick biggots' will do you few favours either.
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Old 07-06-2005, 01:16 PM   #3
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Quote:
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And I suspect the phrase 'rag and stick biggots' will do you few favours either.
It wont?
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Old 07-06-2005, 01:29 PM   #4
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Re: Cowes and dangerous yachties...

Or, maybe ya could chuck a paravane and spinner over the back thereby being a fishing vessel?

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Originally posted by verytricky
a Sailing vessel must give way to ( in order ) vessel not under command, vessel restricted in manoeuvreability, fishing vessel.
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Old 07-06-2005, 01:35 PM   #5
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verytricky, you frighten me. Seriously.

As the pilot of a potentially very fast bit of kit, your understanding of the basic IRPCS seems to be a bit lacking. Or perhaps you actually do understand it, but are trying to make a case for what you'd like it to be.

The fact that you are racing gives you no additional rights. At all. Over anyone. For that matter, the same applies to sailers when they are racing too, although anyone would be hard pressed to know it sometimes!

In an ideal world, everyone would know about every race course, and would be courteous enough to avoid putting anyone in a position where they have to change course or slow down. They are under no obligation to do this though.

The fact that by racing you are choosing to keep to a race line does not mean that you are navigating in a "narrow channel". The fact that you don't want to alter course does not mean that you are restricted in your ability to manouever either.

When you are racing in the open sea (Solent included) everyone out there has the same right to be there that you do. Many other people sharing the water with you won't appreciate just how quickly you're going to reach them. You should make allowances for that. You should not put yourself in a position where a yacht doing a handful of knots is able to get in your way.

For sure there are some "rag and stick biggots" out there, but it doesn't make any difference. Just avoid them. The real problems arise when the "rag and stick biggots" and the "dumb arsed petrol heads" get too close together . . .
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Old 07-06-2005, 02:41 PM   #6
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Hey Tricky, its a wonder you didnt throw in "constrained by her draught" as well. I've never heard so much crap before regarding IRPCAS, and after years of working to it and teaching it, I thought I'd heard it all!! If you dont like the way other water users react perhaps you should stay on your trailer in the pits or learn a bit more about it. No wonder the yellow wellie brigade hold us in such low esteme if thats your idear of responsable craft use.
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Old 07-06-2005, 02:46 PM   #7
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Was this your last trip out???
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Old 07-06-2005, 04:42 PM   #8
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Matt, Jonny, CB1 - I think you've covered any answer I might have as well!

I'm rather of the "lets co-exist peacefully" mentality in a very non tree hugger sort of way!
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Old 08-06-2005, 02:04 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by CB1
Hey Tricky, its a wonder you didnt throw in "constrained by her draught" as well. I've never heard so much crap before regarding IRPCAS, and after years of working to it and teaching it, I thought I'd heard it all!! If you dont like the way other water users react perhaps you should stay on your trailer in the pits or learn a bit more about it. No wonder the yellow wellie brigade hold us in such low esteme if thats your idear of responsable craft use.

tetchy tetchy......

OK, what answers do you 'experts' have then?


The issue is real. The danger is real. You proberbly have not raced outside of England then? Up North ( Scotland )there was a noticable respect for the boats that were racing from the boats that were spectating.

In Norway and Sweden you did not need a navigator, there was a clearly defined race line as ALL the boats watching knew the course and lined the course at a respectful distance. There was a 200 meter wide 'channel' on the race line through which no spectator boat encroached, and this was without marshalling!

I am seriously considering my entry into the Cowes Classic. I dont want some idiot with a sailboat testing the collision rules whilst I am racing.

If we can not sort out something, then there is a serious problem in the South! Will the only racing we can do take place outside of our own country?
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Old 08-06-2005, 03:23 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by verytricky
I am seriously considering my entry into the Cowes Classic.
Probably the best thing.

At Cowes the odds are that, at some point, someone else will be where you want to be. If you're not happy racing in busy waters, then don't do it.
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Old 08-06-2005, 04:17 PM   #11
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Class 1, 2 and the Endurance boats have never had a problem with racing in the waters of the Solent! And I'd lay money that they were traveling at a little more than 75mph! In this conuntry we have a law which is called right of passage, you can go where the f**k you like and no one can stop you, unless it is for security reasons. If you're racing in the solent then perhaps you navigator should be doing his / her job and anticipating what other craft are likely to do and give you a safe course. Unless of course the visability from inside you canopy is so crap and perhaps you're the danger on the water!!!
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Old 08-06-2005, 04:22 PM   #12
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And yes I have raced abroad on many occassion and not had a problem, in fact I dont have a problem with racing in the solent.
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Old 08-06-2005, 04:50 PM   #13
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When I went to Plymouth a couple of years ago to watch Class 1 they shut the whole sound for the duration of the race. Also when Class 1 used to race at Cowes the chute was a no go area until they had passed. So if the will is there they will stop traffic

As to why V24, OCR etc etc doesn?t get the same respect as Class 1 is symptomatic of how offshore racing is seen in the UK.

On the other hand if you can't alter course to miss a yacht pushing 5 knots then you need to sack your navigator. I appreciate that you don?t get the same clear visibility a my plodding along at 35knots but still!

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Old 08-06-2005, 08:28 PM   #14
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Plymouth is a completley differernt kettle of fish in the fact that it's a naval area and they can impose any restrictions on water use they want. They also have the MOD police to carry out their wishes, but alas the solent is not and people have the right of passage.
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Old 08-06-2005, 08:45 PM   #15
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Is this correct? I understood the eastern solent fell under the Dockyard Port of Portsmouth, governed by QHM. This being the reason why the portsmouth race was cancelled, since the RYA have made a commitment to the QHM (or it might have been to the solent pilotage coordination committee?) never again to sanction multilap racing in the solent?

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alas the solent is not and people have the right of passage.
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