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12-02-2008, 01:24 PM
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#61
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TEAM 25 RACING
Country: UK
Location: By the seaside
Occupation: Designing stuff
Cruising area: Solent
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: By the seaside
Posts: 508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimB-C
Keep it smple and affordable to all, don't rip people off.
That's what kills racing. The sport needs the "little" guy.................
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Spot on TimB-C, keep the entry fees down and you'll have more entrants and ultimately more money, along with a very happy boating community. Simple isn't it?
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__________________
I used to live with fear every day, then I divorced her
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12-02-2008, 01:31 PM
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#62
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,891
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Someone's gotta pay for the event though!
How much does the event cost to run?
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12-02-2008, 01:31 PM
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#63
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marketing guy
Country: England
Location: Bucks
Occupation: marketing guy
Engines: huge
Cruising area: bath
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bucks
Posts: 70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBird1964
Spot on TimB-C, keep the entry fees down and you'll have more entrants and ultimately more money, along with a very happy boating community. Simple isn't it?
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I think these fees are reasonable ..and nobody is getting ripped off
btw the race is on the saturday
what's your problem ......the classes or the fees? The fees are the fees, sorry, it isnlt a cheap enterprise to stage and you'll be getting godo value for money
so if it's classes and we can agree a way forward to accommodate everyone then great.....then we accussed of make too
many classes..can't really win. so I'll leave you guys to discuss it with your own specific agendas, bit too busy to debate it , anything you need from us you know where we are
Jim
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12-02-2008, 01:56 PM
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#64
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Registered User
Country: Job Centre
Location: In a box
Occupation: Chaos's gofer
Interests: Skiving
Boat make: Spectre 30
Engines: 2 x Promax 225
Cruising area: In the bath
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: In a box
Posts: 5,201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimB-C
Keep it smple and affordable to all, don't rip people off.
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I don't think it's a case of ripping people off, you of all people know what it costs to stage an event of this size, and someone has to pay..
As for "keeping it simple and affordable to all", that doesn't really go with Powerboat Racing. If you want cheap, then organise a rally, if you wanna race, then get ready to spend big bucks.
__________________
Chaos for Moderator.
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12-02-2008, 02:04 PM
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#65
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Large member
Country: England
Location: On the farm
Occupation: General Trouble Causer Salterns Boatyard
Interests: Official smartass
Boat name: Seahorse.org
Boat make: a V24 and a SLOW unstable ICE Bladerunner
Engines: 2x300 promax, 320 Volvo
Cruising area: England/France & Med
Join Date: May 2005
Location: On the farm
Posts: 2,681
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim O'Toole
I think these fees are reasonable ..and nobody is getting ripped off
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The fees are the fees. It costs a fortune to put on an event these days. I dont think that the fees are too outrageous. Gotta put them in relation to the distance covered.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim O'Toole
so I'll leave you guys to discuss it with your own specific agendas, bit too busy to debate it , anything you need from us you know where we are
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If this is a genuine offer, I think we can probably get a class structure together that encompases the majority of the offshore fleet. For many people it is the achievement of having finished, not the winning that counts. Around the cans in a 60 minute course I want to win. CTC I want to finish. Finishing first would be a plus.
Class 1, Class 2, Class 3, Multihull & historic? Does that sound like a starting point?
Minimum speed 21 knots
Forced induction petrol engines incur a CC penalty factor of 1.4
Class 1 :open class
everything that does not fit into class 2 or 3, historic or Multihull.
Possible Fee: £1250
Class 2
Minimum length 27 foot
Maximum length 45 foot
Max engine cc(outboard)
9,750 2s or 4s s/c
13,500 4s N/A
Max engine cc (inboard)
17,000 s/c for D
17,000 N/A for P
Possible Fee: £900
Class 3
Minimum length 21 foot
Maximum length 35 foot
Max engine cc(outboard)
6,200 4s
5,100 2s
Max engine cc (inboard)
7,500 P
8,000 D
Possible Fee: £300
Multihull
Minimum length 21 foot
Possible Fee: from £350 - calculated individually
Historic
Minimum length 21 foot
Forced induction for diesels only
No engine capacity limits
Possible Fee: £350
This is a very quick look at the classes. So you would end up with 5 classes. Ribs would race against hardboats in the category they fit into. Anyone doing something strange or unusual ( say fitting twin 1000Hp to a 22 foot mono ) would slot into the 'open class' or class 1. This way someone stepping out of the 'norm' would still be able to run the event.
I like the idea to group the classes on the CC, which is easy to check via the stroke and bore size if you needed to check. HP is such an unenforceable way to measure things.
Please feel free to comment on and make suggestions to or alterations to the classses and how to group within the classes.
My idea was to keep the number of classes low and the range or ability of boats to fit into a class as broad as possible.
With the above class structure all 3c and V24 would fit into class 3. The 5.7 engine of the V24 would put it mid class engine size. Running an 8.2 would force a V24 into Class 1. 3C boats could run twin 200's or even twin 225's
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12-02-2008, 02:09 PM
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#66
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Registered User
Location: hayling island
Boat name: snow monkey
Boat make: extreme 24
Engines: mercruiser 6.2
Join Date: May 2004
Location: hayling island
Posts: 2,082
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i prefer class 4 as it stands at the moment,thankyou very much marc ill be joining your v24 club very soon i think
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12-02-2008, 02:22 PM
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#67
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Registered User
Country: UK
Occupation: dog breeder
Interests: boats, cars,film.f1 and anitques/paintings
Boat name: tba
Cruising area: south coast France and med
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,062
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I think classes look good, but TD I sincerely do not believe it has to be so expensive....................The biggest problem for some time is that the cost is excluding the back bone the port needs. Plus I'd rather see 5 boats at say 500 than 1 or 2 at 1250 !
Surely if we want the sport not just to survive but to grow we have to open it up to more boats.
Thats why we need minimum speed at 21 knots and minimum length 21.
We have to get away from this being an elite sport for the rich.That's why in the '70's we had large fields, if it floated it raced............BUMS IN BOATS..
Another thing if you are only charging X for all then you will get twice the entries....The sport needs the week-end boater aswell as "joe bloggs" in his cruiser......................
Ofcourse the event any event costs but the more entries the less it costs!!!!!!
Why do events costs is because to many ground staff
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12-02-2008, 02:37 PM
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#68
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Large member
Country: England
Location: On the farm
Occupation: General Trouble Causer Salterns Boatyard
Interests: Official smartass
Boat name: Seahorse.org
Boat make: a V24 and a SLOW unstable ICE Bladerunner
Engines: 2x300 promax, 320 Volvo
Cruising area: England/France & Med
Join Date: May 2005
Location: On the farm
Posts: 2,681
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl
i prefer class 4 as it stands at the moment,thankyou very much
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Damn - all the weeks of hard work thinking up the class structures, and you are unhappy!
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12-02-2008, 03:01 PM
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#69
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marketing guy
Country: England
Location: Bucks
Occupation: marketing guy
Engines: huge
Cruising area: bath
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bucks
Posts: 70
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[QUOTE=verytricky;126601]The fees are the fees. It costs a fortune to put on an event these days. I dont think that the fees are too outrageous. Gotta put them in relation to the distance covered.
If this is a genuine offer, I think we can probably get a class structure together that encompases the majority of the offshore fleet. For many people it is the achievement of having finished, not the winning that counts. Around the cans in a 60 minute course I want to win. CTC I want to finish. Finishing first would be a plus.
sorry mate you misunderstood me....I meant I'll leave you to debate it but it is what it is, and the fees are what they are........
oooooooooops
Jim
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12-02-2008, 03:07 PM
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#70
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Registered User
Country: UK
Occupation: dog breeder
Interests: boats, cars,film.f1 and anitques/paintings
Boat name: tba
Cruising area: south coast France and med
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,062
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LUMP IT OR LIKE.........................................nice one, definately the way to move the sport forward............no sorry that is a statement from someone putting on an event out of pressure and not interested in the integrety of this famous race
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12-02-2008, 03:19 PM
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#71
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Large member
Country: England
Location: On the farm
Occupation: General Trouble Causer Salterns Boatyard
Interests: Official smartass
Boat name: Seahorse.org
Boat make: a V24 and a SLOW unstable ICE Bladerunner
Engines: 2x300 promax, 320 Volvo
Cruising area: England/France & Med
Join Date: May 2005
Location: On the farm
Posts: 2,681
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim O'Toole
sorry mate you misunderstood me....I meant I'll leave you to debate it but it is what it is, and the fees are what they are........
oooooooooops
Jim
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Now you got me confused.
Are you saying the fees are set? If so that is your perrogative, no problem with that.
If you are saying the classes are set and can not be changed, then that is unfortunate, and we need to work on unsetting them.
I would really really hate to glue fenders onto the V24 just to enter the race.
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12-02-2008, 03:22 PM
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#72
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim O'Toole
so if it's classes and we can agree a way forward to accommodate everyone then great.....Jim
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So what happened to this suggestion?
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12-02-2008, 04:08 PM
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#73
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marketing guy
Country: England
Location: Bucks
Occupation: marketing guy
Engines: huge
Cruising area: bath
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bucks
Posts: 70
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[QUOTE=verytricky;126608]Now you got me confused.
Are you saying the fees are set? If so that is your perrogative, no problem with that.
If you are saying the classes are set and can not be changed, then that is unfortunate, and we need to work on unsetting them.
[B]lets just be clear, the fees are set..this sport ain't cheap to race in or to organise....if we .....P1 , can tweak the class definitions with the RYA to bring more racers in then great, more people get to race and we get more entry fees to defray our costs...... all means make suggestions, but do so in a note to Steve Lydon who will do his damdest to make it happen. He'll give you a straight answer as to whether it's doable.
JOT
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12-02-2008, 04:22 PM
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#74
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Large member
Country: England
Location: On the farm
Occupation: General Trouble Causer Salterns Boatyard
Interests: Official smartass
Boat name: Seahorse.org
Boat make: a V24 and a SLOW unstable ICE Bladerunner
Engines: 2x300 promax, 320 Volvo
Cruising area: England/France & Med
Join Date: May 2005
Location: On the farm
Posts: 2,681
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I have already written to the RYA.
Hopefully we can get something organised.
Do you know that, because you are organising the event as a BASIC RACE, you have the rights to decide whatever clases you think - you do not need to rely on the RYA defined classes. You only need to do so if you are running a National Championship event.
Although it is sometimes easy to take a list of classes from the RYA, the bottom line is that it is you who can define them, you are not forced to follow RYA recomendations.
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12-02-2008, 05:14 PM
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#75
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BananaShark Member
Country: UK
Location: Salcombe South Devon
Occupation: Racer and builder
Interests: Winning races
Boat name: BananaShark
Boat make: BananaShark 34' Race
Engines: Twin Yanmar BY 260's
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Salcombe South Devon
Posts: 4,638
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Class 4 eliminates the single engine Class III boats as they would be racing against an SR9 Pascoe with twin EFI's or a 28' Batboat with the same engine configuration, and that would be pointless!
__________________
Cookee
British Champions! RIB Formula 1 2005
National Speed Record Holder at 90.15 (still)
www.bananasharkracing.com
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12-02-2008, 05:19 PM
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#76
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Registered User
Location: hayling island
Boat name: snow monkey
Boat make: extreme 24
Engines: mercruiser 6.2
Join Date: May 2004
Location: hayling island
Posts: 2,082
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if class lll did run where the hell would you put a liferaft
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12-02-2008, 05:20 PM
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#77
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BananaShark Member
Country: UK
Location: Salcombe South Devon
Occupation: Racer and builder
Interests: Winning races
Boat name: BananaShark
Boat make: BananaShark 34' Race
Engines: Twin Yanmar BY 260's
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Salcombe South Devon
Posts: 4,638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl
if class lll did run where the hell would you put a liferaft
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I was thinking a lightweight 2 man aircraft one between the navigators legs?
__________________
Cookee
British Champions! RIB Formula 1 2005
National Speed Record Holder at 90.15 (still)
www.bananasharkracing.com
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12-02-2008, 05:24 PM
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#78
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Registered User
Location: hayling island
Boat name: snow monkey
Boat make: extreme 24
Engines: mercruiser 6.2
Join Date: May 2004
Location: hayling island
Posts: 2,082
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arh i see,just like when mine had an extra fuel can between his legs going round the iow...........bugger thats was supposed to be kept a secret
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12-02-2008, 05:36 PM
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#79
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Registered User
Country: UK
Occupation: dog breeder
Interests: boats, cars,film.f1 and anitques/paintings
Boat name: tba
Cruising area: south coast France and med
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,062
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I refer to my previous statement that this has been thrown to-gether without any inteligent thought or the input of anyone a,) interested in the sport and b,) who is not in it for anything other than making a quick buck and to save face
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13-02-2008, 08:58 PM
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#80
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Registered User
Country: south coast
Location: brighton
Interests: boatin
Boat name: Hey Jude
Boat make: Phantom
Engines: 200 xs
Cruising area: solent
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: brighton
Posts: 44
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TimB-C
I think you need to have a chat with Fiona about your negativity mate.
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