Cowes Torquay fees confirmed

[verytricky]

Originally Posted by hunton69

I thought VT was having a larger version built for RB8,remember seing something on the web page or was that one of the phoney entrants that just wanted to show off and give false numbers to the organisers.

I can answer this:
I did design a 30 footer for the RB08. In fact this has been developed past drawings and into a 1/5th scale working model. I paid the fees required at the time to be an entrant into the RB08, and was fully intending to do the event.

However: The requirement to have an open canopy of a defined size was *not* open to any leeway by the Beakhursts who are 'arranging' the rules. Their requirement for the opening per crew member is *larger* than the total size of the canopy, so even a 100% open roof ( in the form of the bladerunner for example ) was not going to pass scrutineering.

Originally Posted by OldMan

You haven't thought it through I'm afraid. These rules have been taken straight from the RB08 rules, with our permission and were constructed for offshore Endurance racing and in particular for the RB08 where some legs are well over 200 miles. The RB08 rules were constructed from virtually zero by highly experienced individuals (including Jon Fuller) who had all been racing for many years and most of them, including me, having done many long offshore endurance races. With all due respect, and not wishing to cause offence, it would be interesting to know if a V24 could carry enough fuel and ALL the necessary equipment for a race such as the CTC where it might possibly be there and blah blah blah blah.

Originally Posted by OldMan

Insulting guys from offshore history who have actually "done it" and been there doesn't do much for your credibility sunshine. I too can insult if you wish but I don't think I will lower myself to your level. Bloody ignoramus comes to mind though. Oh yes, things have changed all right. There are such big fleets racing now and such great races aren't there compared to the 80's and 90's and before us "old un's" began bringing back endurance racing what have YOU been doing? Hunton 69 is right. toooooo many dreamers.

Old Man, again, with respect to your efforts to bring back endurance racing - You have chosen the wrong people to advise you, or you have been poorly advised. To have a large fleet like you used to have 30 years ago you need to remove the bollocks that you have added. You need to be OPEN in accepting craft, where you have limited the ability of craft to enter. You banned partial canopies unless they had several METERS of open space, which excludes all smaller canopied craft. You banned 'short' craft, removing several very able craft from competing. You banned multihulls entirely. You placed upper limits on length banning many other craft.

It is *fact* that many of the classes were 're-arranged' after John Fuller had provided his input, So I am supprised not to see him object. And the re-arranging of class limits were done by people who had vested interests in ensuring their craft was now top dog in the new class and competition was eliminated.

The limit placed on hardboats to prevent V24's from taking place is a limit I think everyone knows was imposed specifically to stop the V24's from entering. This is fine for your own personal event. You have the rights to do whatever you want in your event, but the consequences of doing so are for you. The consequence of not allowing an opening in a partial canopied boat that is 100% of the size of the canopy is my withdrawel of my entry. I balanced up the enjoyment of participation vs the cost vs the risks. And unfortunately the RB08 lost.

What is not acceptable is the 'fiddled' rules which were made up by thumbsuck and by people with vested interests in classes being re-arranged becoming the official RYA rules. This is wrong and this will be challenged and will be changed.

The V24 in 'standard' form carries 220l of fuel which gives a range of 135 miles. The V24 can be rigged to carry an additional fuel bladder, which increases the range to 260 miles. ( additional weight 150kg ) A four man life raft is not big, and does fit in the V24 flare box.

If I want to drive accross lyme bay in a gale is another question. I dont think I would, so if the CTC takes place in a gale, I withdraw. Which is the obvious thing to do. If the boat is capable of handling it - definately.

[CB1]

Look foward to seeing you all at a venue near you.

[hunton69]

You will never please all of the people all of the time. Thats Rules for you.

Next time when Round Britain needs to be organised may i suggest that you organise it and then you can modify the rules to suit everyone. Hopefully we will then have the 70 boats in it to make the event bigger and better than 2008

[Jon Fuller]

Originally Posted by verytricky

The limit placed on hardboats to prevent V24's from taking place is a limit I think everyone knows was imposed specifically to stop the V24's from entering.

That's not true Marc. The intended minimum size for RB08 was going to be 25' (as per UIM measurment) but was reduced to 24'6" specifically to enable the Extreme 24 of Gary Manchester (hotboat) to enter. The generic 25 foot rule, was simply that we (all of us) considered 25' to really be the smallest boat it was sensible to send off round Lands End, and accross the Irish sea. There has to be a line drawn in the sand somewhere and 25' was it.

The intension being, to save people from themselves, if you know what I mean. It was done with the best intentions and I stand by it, even though I'm no longer involved.

We all know that the Mannerfelt V24 is an unbelievably capable boat, and outshines many, if not all boats of it's size, and quite a bit larger. However, the rules have to be writen to accomodate any boat design, or make that could turn up, and most boats of 25' or under, were not considered suitable as far as safety, it was certainly never a campagn to exclude the Vs specificaly.

[Jon Fuller]

Originally Posted by CB1

Still hold the record for Poole-Cherbourg. So again lets not get into that.

Didn't we spank your arse that day Chris?

[verytricky]

Originally Posted by Jon Fuller

That's not true Marc. The intended minimum size for RB08 was going to be 25' (as per UIM measurment) but was reduced to 24'6" specifically to enable the Extreme 24 of Gary Manchester (hotboat) to enter.

And many other changes to classes as well as this specific rule change.

How do we explain the allowing of RIBS from 21 foot 6 inches? Who in the RYA owns a 21.5 foot rib?


You get my point on the rules being manipulated to suit.......


So I may have been wrong on the reason why it was set at 24.5 for hardboats. I am not paranoid, they are out to get me!

As I have said previously - it is the right of the organiser of the race to say what he feels are the requirements for the boats entering his race. That is his right, and the way it should be. The repercussions are that some people withdraw from the race when the rules change, or dont enter in the first place.

However, you should not allow a specific set of rules that were Gerrymandered for a specific event become the National Association rules.

[Jon Fuller]

Originally Posted by verytricky

And many other changes to classes as well as this specific rule change.

The 24'6" rules was done whilst I was still involved. I didn't realy see the need to keep Manchester happy, but 6" wasn't worth gettingn hot under the collar over. The worry is always that it could be the thin end of the wedge.

I stood asside when Puddifoot got the engine capacity rule changed for RB3, I didn't agree with the change, and certainly didn't agree with it happening because Puddifoot wanted it.

All in all, the RB rules are I think, OK. The engine rule change to RB3 left a bit of a gap, but other than excluding the XS2000 (the intension of the change by JP) I don't think it's made that much difference.

I agree that the CTC rules could do with a 'tweek', but I realy do feel that like Mike with the RB, P1 have picked this race up, where no one else did, and alienating him, or being difficult is very much the wrong approach!

Lets keep all this nice and civil, and try to work WITH Jim and his tech guy to tweek things, or he'll just get fed up and regret ever considering CTC.

P1 picking it up is the best thing to happen in ages, don't f*ck 'it' up, or 'them' off!

[BluFin]

FWIW….. Class III had the longest race on the UK calendar for many years, carried a life raft into the bargain as well.London-Calais-London.
( not counting such 1 off events as RB69-84 & L-MC)
Race distance exceeded that of the C-T-C by a couple of miles. Hence the Solent loops to claim the longest race UK title.
To all that dismiss Class III & V24 as non-endurance is a little offhand and is but a tad condescending. If that’s not the case that how it comes across.
The traditional length for the C-T & latter the C-T-C was 21’, If I recall correctly (I might be wrong so feel free to correct). Yes, Class III became Class II for the day they knew they would never win, but was about taking part. (There a light bulb coming on yet)
This event I thought was all about boats across the line to bring back a classic event in the true sprit……………………….
Guess all this modern technology, new, methods, new materials, improved safety equipment means a bigger boat is now required to cover a passage that 21 footers carried out in yesteryear.

[TimB-C]

The C/T/C was always 21 foot minimum length and 21 knot minimum speed.
RB '69 was 21' too I believe.......................

[Ben]

Originally Posted by Jon Fuller

Didn't we spank your arse that day Chris?

Alot of arse spankin happened that day.

[Lance]

If the rules were changed to allow Gary's 24 extreme to enter, then surely there will be no problems in shaving another 6" (as john says what’s 6" between friends) to allow the V24's to enter. Sorry for what I am about to say Tony your boats are the best production boats on the market!!! But a V24 imo are a far better race boat and more reliable in these conditions than an extreme 24 (see cancer research results last few years!) SORRY TONY! Hopefully with some positive feed back to Jim and his team and NO slating on here they may be able to allow us to run in this great event as it was my intentions to run a V24 too. 6" fin extension required me thinks!!

[Jon Fuller]

Originally Posted by Ben

Alot of arse spankin happened that day.

Yeah, that Pascoe has a lot to answer for!

[andyxs]

is there any rule about the length being structural? what about longer exhaust pipes on a v24 or a lil bowsprit? dont know, just an idea

[Jon Fuller]

Na, the rules are writen to stop that, it's quite specific.

[verytricky]

Originally Posted by andyxs

is there any rule about the length being structural? what about longer exhaust pipes on a v24 or a lil bowsprit? dont know, just an idea

The UIM rules do a series of drawings of a series of possible boat configurations. This explains how they intend to measure the boats, and the rule is well know and it is known how to measure as well. You can mess with things to gain an extra inch or two, but not the length most class3 boats & V24 will require.

I have investigated gluing fenders onto the V24 and it is possible ala Bladerunner to get custom 'tooobs' fitted, but they would really feck up the profile of a nice hard boat.

Me thinks its better to take on the RYA with their class classifications

[BluFin]

Originally Posted by verytricky

Me thinks its better to take on the RYA with their class classifications

Nah!!! Put Minehead back up was one of my 2 for the season

Edit: All those that qualify can do CTC & everybody else can run- Minehead-Barry return, no conflict of intrest there

[Ben]

Originally Posted by Jon Fuller

Yeah, that Pascoe has a lot to answer for!

DOH!

[Mike Lloyd]

On reflection, I think that we have to hold our hands up and admit that there were a number of mistakes made on boat sizes/engine capacity etc for the RB08. They aren't perfect rules by any means and will certainly need polishing for the next RB. If there is one! Certainly there should have been an "open" class for the top end (I have had so many enquiries from the States and here to allow supercharged engines and triple engine rigs) and maybe lower the boat length to allow the V24 racers if that's what they want and it appears that they do. But that's for the future or even maybe the CTC.

[ciao!]

I suspect that if there is going to be another Round Britain race, it would have to be within a couple of years of 2008, using the same venues and "leaning" on all the knowledge gleaned from this years race.
To start from "scratch" in 5 to 10 years would require another Mike Lloyd, (retired, dedicated, loves the sport, thick skinned etc.) plus "seasoned" organisers such as TP, Annie and Rob etc.and perhaps they may be a tall order.
The class size problem simply didn't arise in 1984 because the international classes ie. Class 1 and Class 2 and the national Cruiser Classes were reasonably well supported then.
The sport is now so "fragmented" around the world, that to run a RB or a CTC a new rule book has to be written, and as Jim has found, he could use the RB classes as a "template" but still has to "tweak".
As big a fan I am of the V24 boats, not too sure it would be wise to do 1800 miles in one over 10 days, and of course you still have this on going problem with canopies which the Ocke's run.