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Old 29-04-2012, 02:15 PM   #1
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Handicap racing

Just thinking about handicap racing.
We had our first official year of offshore circuit style racing last year here in Ireland and looking at a promising season ahead with a few new teams comming on board.

Were running basic type racing as we just dont have enough of any particular boat to form a class as such, so we ran Bobs offshore 2011 rules, breaking boats into 1,2 & 3 lt.

Looking at doing similar this season, but breaking into Hp.. Under 100Hp, 100-199Hp and 200-300Hp. But this opens an opportunity for sillyness to start, like dropping a 2.5 offshore on a phantom 18.

I'm not a huge fan of handicap racing as I think the starts are the best part of a race, so a thought I had was a 10% bust rule.
If a boat busts the lap average by 10% or more they move into the next class.

Or we could lay a penalty lap incourse, with a length of 10% of the course length, that they could have to complete if they bust. This could be worked with flags and numbers, similar to black flag.

Thoughts and opinions on this. Overcomplicated, waste of time, officials nightmare...
What do you guys think?
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Old 29-04-2012, 10:33 PM   #2
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Starting to get overcomplicated to me. The actual racing needs to be as simple as possible.

HP classing is tricky as you need to start checking engines are what they say they are and it encourages people to run old 2 strokes at a time when we really need to be looking forward to green engines if we want the sport to sustain and be seen as viable by local authorities.

The RYA aren't fans of boats randomly splitting off to do different laps.

A lot of people say 'the start is the best bit' but that's only because the rest is pretty boring as far as getting any real action is concerned. Granted, with our staggered start there's no big start run, but the whole race builds in tension throughout it's duration to a big finish with everyone racing closely. It's different to a normal layout, but that doesn't mean it has to be worse. It could be way better!

Just my 2p. Whatever you do, I hope you guys have a great season!!

Cheers, James
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Old 30-04-2012, 12:00 PM   #3
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Cheers James,

Yeah, Im familiar with the start procedure, its the same as Clubman circuit racing. And I get your point that the race heats up as it progresses, or at east it should in theory.

I do agree that racing should be kept simple, thats why I chucked this out there for opinion from more experienced guys. My main concern was it would be an officials or timekeepers nightmare. Plus a possibility for post race pissing matches.

I'd say we'll just run it same way again this year and see how it goes with a few extra boats in it. See if the drivers want to change it after.

Our reason for changing from capacity classing to Hp classing was mainly because a lot of outboards, especially some of the green engines are larger than the capacity of the more traditional 2 stroke.

Hope you guys have a good season, which no doubt you will.
Cheers, Alan
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Old 30-04-2012, 12:18 PM   #4
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Do you set qualifying times to get your position for a start?
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Old 30-04-2012, 01:04 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
Do you set qualifying times to get your position for a start?
I think that's how the RMYC did it, and data from previous weeks racing. It seemed to work, but that was mainly due to a pretty switched on guy who did the handicapping. Might have been Chris Kaye, I seem to rememeber there were some instances of cheating though, with some people doing some slow laps, enabling them to storm round to a win later in the series.

It doesn't do it for me though, as it's not proper racing. It always penalises the good drivers, with well set up boats, and boosts the ego's of those less talented!

I still think that a rolling start, with a battle to the finish line is what it's all about. Otherwise you might as well just do time trials.
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Old 30-04-2012, 01:53 PM   #6
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So there was an element of what the yanks call sand bagging?
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Old 30-04-2012, 02:46 PM   #7
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It's impossible to gain any advantage from Sandbagging the system over here... It's continually adjusted using your fastest 3 laps from the previous race, so to theoretically start first in a race your fastest 3 laps in the previous race would have to be slow as hell. To win from that first place in the next race you'd have to drive as fast as you can to keep the other boats at bay, so it all cancels out. It's not an average over the whole race that counts, it's your fastest 3 laps. If there's someone in front of you you need to go faster than them to overtake and win the points!

I agree with Tony to a point, and so do most of the other racers here, however with such a vast array of boats taking part (6 litre cats, 4 litre mono, 3C B23, 3B, Rings with 2.5EFi, V24etc) the races were great for the first half lap, then it was a case of the field gradually spreading out, a few boats getting lapped, and the only actual racing was between the few boats that were evenly matched. With the handicap system we'll be running a good driver in a fast, well set up and consistent boat will end up the winner at the end of the season - surely that's a good thing? Otherwise we'd end up chequebook racing, and the guys in the likes of the P20s would have no hope against state of the art race boats, and that's no good for anyone.

Over the course of the season there'll be tight circuits, longer circuits, flat weather, rough weather, and I'll bet any money there'll be no argument at the end that a consistent and well set up boat with a good driver was the overall winner
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Old 30-04-2012, 03:06 PM   #8
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Bloody well put Paul.

At the end of the day it doesn't seem that the current format is working very well in the UK so this is bound to at least be better than that!

Proof will be in the pudding!

James
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Old 30-04-2012, 11:17 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydrostream View Post
Just thinking about handicap racing.
We had our first official year of offshore circuit style racing last year here in Ireland and looking at a promising season ahead with a few new teams comming on board.

Were running basic type racing as we just dont have enough of any particular boat to form a class as such, so we ran Bobs offshore 2011 rules, breaking boats into 1,2 & 3 lt.

Looking at doing similar this season, but breaking into Hp.. Under 100Hp, 100-199Hp and 200-300Hp. But this opens an opportunity for sillyness to start, like dropping a 2.5 offshore on a phantom 18.

I'm not a huge fan of handicap racing as I think the starts are the best part of a race, so a thought I had was a 10% bust rule.
If a boat busts the lap average by 10% or more they move into the next class.

Or we could lay a penalty lap incourse, with a length of 10% of the course length, that they could have to complete if they bust. This could be worked with flags and numbers, similar to black flag.

Thoughts and opinions on this. Overcomplicated, waste of time, officials nightmare...
What do you guys think?
You should have a look at the scandinavian V-classes. I dont think the rule book is in english though.

This is the most popular classes with out any doubt.

V-50
W-60
V-150
W-150
V-300

(goes up to V-750 i think)

V=mono
W=catamaran

Numbers is max hp allowed in the class. You can run a smaller engine and still be competitive since the boat is allowed to be lighter.


Fastest W-150 cat runs arround 75 knots, fastest mono 150 aprox 70 knots, V-300 is arround 73-74 knots i think. The idea was that Max speed should be arround 70 knots.

You could basicly rig any kind of boat, to fit in atleast one of the classes above. Just thought i would hint about it since it became so popular!
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Old 30-04-2012, 11:26 PM   #10
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Cheers mate great info!
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